Originally posted by Beniboybling
You need to understand hyperbole when you see it. 🙄
Originally posted by Beniboybling
Your inability to grasp that point is not relevant to this debate.Really I grow tiresome of you feeling threatened by anything that potentially jeapordises the Sith Emperor standing in mythos.
Also:
The Sith Emperor is the most powerful Force-user who has ever existed. Unless this implacable enemy can be defeated, the Jedi Order is doomed.
Taken from Star Wars: The Old Republic: Encyclopedia
&
The Sith Emperor, history's most powerful dark side master, performed a ritual of incredible scope to consume the life energy of every being on his homeworld.
Taken from Star Wars: The Old Republic: Encyclopedia
Vitiate's standing isn't jeopardized in the mythos. If anybody is feeling insecure, it is you.
Originally posted by Beniboybling
Holistically, Legend. I exempt Nihilus a whole from ranking and comparison, but not his feats. Fact is this feat is superior to Vitiate's showings, does that really mean anything in the greater scope of things? Not really.
Vitiate have demonstrated superior Force Drain powers then anybody in the mythos. His most potent expression of Force Drain literally atomizes a living being. And Vitiate have demonstrated the capability to exert such potency on planetary-scale.
Nihilus have never demonstrated the capability to atomize a living being with his Force Drain powers. I disagree with your notion that Katarr based showing is a superior demonstration just because it caused more infrastructural damage.
Originally posted by Beniboybling
Its doubly ironic that Selenial not only accused you of this, but you reported her for doing so.
Originally posted by Beniboybling
Would you like me to do the same? Or are you going to behave like a good boy?Nor was I aware that petty insults and accusations of biased were "good for reaching an understanding in a debate".
Originally posted by Beniboybling
My reasons for exempting Nihilus from comparison have nothing to do with his abilities, but his intrinsic nature as a Force user. Again please stop to avoid further embarrassment.
They did not know that Darth Nihilus, a being of pure hunger and dark side power, was approaching the colony.
Taken from Star Wars: The Old Republic
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Nothing matters except his hunger. Before it devours him totally, Nihilus uses its power to displace his persona into his robes and armor. As his useless body disintegrates, he becomes living primitive intention; at last, the whole of the galaxy becomes food—for Nihilus has become the hunger.
Taken from Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic Campaign Guide
As pointed out, Nihilus evolved into a being of pure hunger and dark side power.
Originally posted by Beniboybling
No. I really don't."You are making the baseless assumption that Nihilus did not vaporise living beings on Katarr, despite being totally unaware of its effects on living beings."
You just confessed to the underlined, because it is true, you are making an appeal to ignorance, and I am not obliged to engage with fallacious logic.
Vitiate's Force Drain expression fits the logic of Death Field technique, but taken to extreme level.
Originally posted by Beniboybling
Its a claim, supported by evidence i.e. a valid claim. However its obvious you are not prepared to except it as such, and really, I have little interesting in making you.
Originally posted by Beniboybling
Legend unless outright contradicted by the material, gameplay is canon. That is a fact. So unless you can outright proof that the atmosphere was destroyed therefore making this action impossible, you cannot dimiss it as game mechanics, and to do so is to subjectively warp the material to your own agenda.Making comparisons to Nathema are purposeless, because that world too had a breathable atmosphere, if anything its proof that Ziost did too.
Atmosphere is a complex phenomenon that involves air, gases, climate, and layers such as stratosphere, trophosphere, and mesophere.
The destruction of Ziost's atmosphere is visible in this visual depiction:
Anybody - with you being an exception - can understand the fact that Ziost's atmosphere is being harmed by Vitiate's power. The bluish part represents Ziost's original atmospheric conditions and environment. The de-colored part represents Vitiate's power spreading across the planet, consuming the atmosphere, living beings, oceans and more.
Originally posted by FreshestSlice🙄
You're trying to convince LeGenD something someone else did is something superior to something Vitiate did? We couldn't even do that when Vitiate needed 8,000 other people to accomplish this.
He claimed that Nihilus's showing is on a whole new level in comparison to Ziost. I disagreed with this, and rightfully so.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenDAnd on what basis are you claiming Nihilus is not using the same technique?
Force Drain powers are not the same in their effects. They are a spectrum of powers with different effects on living beings. As an example, Drain Life Essence technique is used to siphon life force of a living being. However, Death Field technique significantly accelerates aging process and eventually disintegrates a living being in addition to siphoning its life force.Vitiate's Force Drain expression fits the logic of Death Field technique, but taken to extreme level.
Gameplay is not canon, it represents a player's choice.https://twitter.com/HolocronKeeper/status/383263147445854208Atmosphere is a complex phenomenon that involves air, gases, climate, and layers such as stratosphere, trophosphere, and mesophere.
The destruction of Ziost's atmosphere is visible in this visual depiction:
Anybody - with you being an exception - can understand the fact that Ziost's atmosphere is being harmed by Vitiate's power. The bluish part represents Ziost's original atmospheric conditions and environment. The de-colored part represents Vitiate's power spreading across the planet, consuming the atmosphere, living beings, oceans and more.
Gameplay is canon. If your going claim that in this instance is not, your going to have to do more than prove the atmosphere was destroyed. So far you've proven it was damaged at best.
Ziost cannot have been devastated to the extent LeGenD claims, certainly not Katarr level of obliteration, why? It appears numerous times in the lore long after GGW2, it certainly was not a devastated wasteland in those appearances.
Katarr however was completely annihilated, nearly to the point of Malachor V, infact the only distinction made by Visas Marr between the two is that it remains intact.
Furthermore, we know for a fact that Darth Nihilus has destroyed multiple worlds, not just one.
Well for starters, Nihilus destroying more worlds than Vitiate is frankly irrelevant if they were done on separate occasions.
Secondly, we see for ourselves that Ziost has been completely devastated, no life remains on the planet. Any earlier sources with post GGW Ziost are effectively retconned, not the other way around.
Finally, the Revan novel made it pretty clear that Nathema, and by extension Ziost, > Malachor.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Of-course, Sidious was the source of that power. With him gone, the power dissipated. However, that power wasn't a threat to all of space. This is overreaching.Also, this is the quote from the Dark Empire endnotes:
The key to Luke's turning is the moment when he and Leia realize the Emperor is no longer defined by his physical form, but has become a chaotic nexus of dark energies that swell and burst open the fabric of space, tearing apart everything in the vicinity, human and machine.
The term "burst open the fabric of space" refers to creation of a wormhole that defies space-time continuum.
We don't know how fast Darth Nihilus can ravage a world. In KoTOR II, Nihilus arrived on planet Telos IV to ravage it, but he was stopped after hours of gameplay in an event that came to be known as 'the battle of Telos Four' in galactic history.
Nihilus prepared to devour all life on the planet, and Nihilus’s dreadnought, the Ravager, was met by the Republic Navy and Mandalorian forces. During the battle, the Exile boarded the Ravager and faced Nihilus. Unable to devour the Exile as he had so many others, Nihilus was finally defeated. With Telos safe, the Exile pursued Kreia.
Taken from [B]Star Wars: The Old Republic
As for Katarr, its devastation is among the most impressive demonstrations of the Force ability but Visas Marr somehow survived this apocalyptic event.
Walking Katarr's lifeless surface later, Darth Nihilus came across the only survivor: the traumatized Miraluka Visas Marr, whom Nihilus took as his apprentice.
Taken from Star Wars: The Old Republic
As for Vitiate's feat, I think that your bias is the issue. It is the most impressive demonstration of Force ability of apocalyptic proportions so far. Vitiate decimated the planet's atmosphere, oceans, structures, flora and fauna. Essentially much of the environment. And he did so really fast.
And Vitiate unleashed this power just like another Force power, it quickly ravaged the planet:
As pointed out earlier, I regard this as a story element and it have more basis on story-telling then on characters.
This is like the case of Abeloth. It is stated that Abeloth is unleashed during times of great chaos and anarchy. But their have been many extremely violent events and developments in history in which Abeloth was not unleashed.
It can be noticed that when Vitiate began to threaten the entire galaxy, multiple 'champions of light' emerged to stop him.
Vitiate have comparable/superior showings then Sidious. You are too much lost in hyperboles to realize this.
But you and me are on the same page regarding The Ones. That they have peers in Vitiate, Nihilus, and Sidious.
Vitiate's time and hype covers The Ones by the way.
Star Wars: The New Essential Chronology was released in 2005. Vitiate have been introduced to the mythos in 2011. [/B]
There's no reason to assume an objective source would exaggerate. In terms of literature, hyperbolic statements are usually used from a character's point of view, as it's common for fallible characters/people to exaggerate events. Objective sources can be vague, but what's vague about the term "all of space?" It's a very explicit statement, clear as can be. Even if we do accept it as overreaching, well to what extent? Even hyperbolic statements are used to convey a certain point. In this case, do you honestly think all of space meant a single moon? There's no reason to assume the author would expect the reader to assume that. I'm familiar with all of the quotes regarding the storm and none of them contradict The Comics Companion. In fact, The Comics Companion is more objective then the majority of sources regarding Palpatine's storms. Sorry but you have no authority to dismiss a statement from an omniscience source. I could more easily dismiss Vitiate's galaxy consuming ritual, and assert that it never threatened to do what Vitiate planned it to do.
Yes, it's been like that since the beginning. Bad guy comes and is inevitably defeated. Not once has the force interfered until Palpatine, and then the force went out of it's way to interfere and create a being to rid itself of Sidious. Obviously Palpatine was a greater threat than any other, and the force perceived him in such a manner, otherwise it would have happened more often. Palpatine wasn't ordinary For someone so good at math, you're certainly not doing it.
No, Nihilus and Vitiate aren't in the same league with Sidious.
I said the book was edited and re-released after Vitiate's introduction to the mythos. It doesn't matter really though, because nothing about Vitiate contradicts those source, so there's no need ignore them.
Originally posted by AncientPower
Ziost cannot have been devastated to the extent LeGenD claims, certainly not Katarr level of obliteration, why? It appears numerous times in the lore long after GGW2, it certainly was not a devastated wasteland in those appearances.Katarr however was completely annihilated, nearly to the point of Malachor V, infact the only distinction made by Visas Marr between the two is that it remains intact.
However, Planets have the potential to naturally repair themselves with passage of time. Here is a hint: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3024133/
In addition, Ziost is featured in TFU and later eras but all of that content have been officially retconned by Disney.
Originally posted by AncientPower
Furthermore, we know for a fact that Darth Nihilus has destroyed multiple worlds, not just one.