Most powerful Sith? Spring 2015 ed.

Newguy is missing the part where we are talking about physical destruction not the Force, we are talking about how much damage was wrought on the planets physically. Malachor V far surpasses Nathema/Medriaas in that regard, Katarr is considered to only be better off due to the fact it remains intact. Katarr's destruction far outweighs the destruction of Nathema and Ziost, Ziost itself is depicted as being nowhere near the total devastation seen on Katarr.

Nathema is described as being void of all life, the Force and even color, Ziost is depicted as having all life on it killed and the Force devoured, the color turns brown.

Katarr on the other hand was a planet that had been devoured of all life besides Visas Marr whom he had spared and it's entire surface was obliterated to near Malachor V degrees. Other planets were destroyed and presumably dealt the same level of devastation by Darth Nihilus.

The other major difference is that Vitiate needed a ritual and 8,000 willing Sith Lords to complete it over ten days. On Ziost he needed to empower himself with massive casualties before he could destroy it. Darth Nihilus needs none of this aid and performs his drain at will.

Well that's because Nihilus and his fleet "blasted" worlds to ruin as he fed on the planet' life energies per the Complete Star Wars Encyclopedia. So Katarr being flattened makes sense.

Source? I'm pretty sure you are just making assumptions here that the fleet did the "blasting." And that has a ****ton of conflicting sources... even within TCSWE. 👆

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Source? I'm pretty sure you are just making assumptions here that the fleet did the "blasting." And that has a ****ton of conflicting sources... even within TCSWE. 👆

In the meantime, Darth Nihilus led his Sith forces from his flagship, the Ravager, drawing more and more power from worlds that he blasted into ruin.

Taken from Star Wars: The Complete Encyclopedia

This makes sense. Fleet is being used to bombard a planet into ruin like Taris.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Newguy is missing the part where we are talking about physical destruction not the Force, we are talking about how much damage was wrought on the planets physically. Malachor V far surpasses Nathema/Medriaas in that regard, Katarr is considered to only be better off due to the fact it remains intact.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Katarr's destruction far outweighs the destruction of Nathema and Ziost, Ziost itself is depicted as being nowhere near the total devastation seen on Katarr.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Nathema is described as being void of all life, the Force and even color, Ziost is depicted as having all life on it killed and the Force devoured, the color turns brown.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Katarr on the other hand was a planet that had been devoured of all life besides Visas Marr whom he had spared and it's entire surface was obliterated to near Malachor V degrees. Other planets were destroyed and presumably dealt the same level of devastation by Darth Nihilus.

In the meantime, Darth Nihilus led his Sith forces from his flagship, the Ravager, drawing more and more power from worlds that he blasted into ruin.

Taken from Star Wars: The Complete Encyclopedia

This makes sense. Fleet is being used to bombard a planet into ruin like Taris.

Originally posted by AncientPower
The other major difference is that Vitiate needed a ritual and 8,000 willing Sith Lords to complete it over ten days. On Ziost he needed to empower himself with massive casualties before he could destroy it. Darth Nihilus needs none of this aid and performs his drain at will.

Obsessed with achieving immortality, the Sith Emperor has targeted his own former subjects on the planet Ziost, with every death seemingly extending his dark power.

Taken from Star Wars: The Old Republic: Rise of the Emperor

Upon reaching a certain point of strength, Vitiate is able to being apocalypse on the planet. And he will continue to grow more powerful as he consumes more.

Nihilus led his fleet to planets and he blasted them with his power, you are making quite a jump in logic there.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Nihilus led his fleet to planets and he blasted them with his power, you are making quite a jump in logic there.

For example:

The group reached an agreement on a fee -- in truth, Han was desperate for the money -- and were forced to blast their way past stormtroopers and out of the spaceport aboard the Millennium Falcon.

Taken from Star Wars: Databank

I am not denying the fact that Darth Nihilus ravaged entire planets with this Force Drain powers. And that his Force Drain powers - of apocalyptic proportions - likely contain telekinetic elements that demonstratively damage structures. However, Force Drain powers do not destroy surface of planets. For this purpose, firepower of fleet would come-in handy, to make sure that potential survivors are not able to retaliate or call for help.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
I'm not sure what Anakin has to do with this debate either. The fact that Anakin needed to be born doesn't really lend credence to Sidious being more powerful than Vitiate, regardless on my personal beliefs on that subject.

There's only fact on the subject. That fact being that Anakin's destiny was to kill Sidious, and in doing so, diffused the dark side throughout the galaxy. Being that this thread is about who is the most powerful sith, and with Sidious effecting the force the way he did, which is a product of power, it has a lot to do with this discussion.

Temp only posted Vitiate's new feats to start it off, but that's not the entire focus of the thread. It was meant to evolve beyond that I'm sure.

Nothing about Vitiate, period, "lends credence" to him being more powerful than Sidious. Are you suggesting that this topic shouldn't be discussed?

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
My interpretation cannot be ruled out so easily. Terms such as blasted into ruin and similar, can imply attack from weapons and vessels as well.

For example:

The group reached an agreement on a fee -- in truth, Han was desperate for the money -- and were forced to blast their way past stormtroopers and out of the spaceport aboard the Millennium Falcon.

Taken from [B]Star Wars: Databank

I am not denying the fact that Darth Nihilus ravaged entire planets with this Force Drain powers. And that his Force Drain powers - of apocalyptic proportions - likely contain telekinetic elements that demonstratively damage structures. However, Force Drain powers do not destroy surface of planets. For this purpose, firepower of fleet would come-in handy, to make sure that potential survivors are not able to retaliate or call for help. [/B]

Blasted does not inherently infer that weapons were involved, blasting someone or something with the Force has an equal likelihood implied. What supports this interpretation is the fact numerous sources state that Darth Nihilus alone was responsible for the destruction of those planets, not his fleet.

On the subject of his fleet, he is the sole reason those ships were intact and maintained power in the first place. So the fact he could hold together an entire fleet of ships, power them and drain those planets at the same time only increases the impressiveness of his feats.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
There's only fact on the subject. That fact being that Anakin's destiny was to kill Sidious, and in doing so, diffused the dark side throughout the galaxy. Being that this thread is about who is the most powerful sith, and with Sidious effecting the force the way he did, which is a product of power, it has a lot to do with this discussion.

Temp only posted Vitiate's new feats to start it off, but that's not the entire focus of the thread. It was meant to evolve beyond that I'm sure.

Nothing about Vitiate, period, "lends credence" to him being more powerful than Sidious. Are you suggesting that this topic shouldn't be discussed?

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
No, I no longer own it. Look through it on amazon and type in key words. It should pop up.

That remark is absolutely hyperbolic. No manifestation of Force power is large and potent enough to consume all of space. That is a matter of poor writing. Even the original DE sources don't hype Force Storm to such an extent.

Here is a realistic revelation:

In a last-minute reversal, a dark side Force storm intended to obliterate the New Republic headquarters consumed the Emperor instead - leaving the Dark Empire leaderless.

Taken from Star Wars: The Essential Atlas

The aforementioned revelation is compatible with the revelations in Dark Empire comics.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Omniscience source >>>> vague vision. Math, LeGenD.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
So the force went out of it's way to interfere in ways it never has before because Sidious was just the usual threat? I doubt that. The force went out of it's way to create a being with unmatched potential. Obviously the force didn't have faith in normal beings, so it created one unnaturally. Why didn't the force create one for Vitiate? I mean, it could have saved time, instead of going through so many champions. Math, I calculate the force was just waiting for the inevitable for Vitiate, as it did with every other sith, except for Sidious.

Virgin births occur in reality: http://www.bbc.com/earth/story/20141219-spectacular-real-virgin-births

Say what you want but Vitiate have actually harmed the Force on one occasion; Nathema. In addition, Vitiate posed much greater threat to the galaxy then Palpatine; Vitiate would consume the entire galaxy in time, if not stopped.

If the Force have its own will then it is apparent that it have turned both Jedi and Sith against Vitiate to stop him. Because Vitiate have become so powerful that a lone individual cannot stop him.

"No one person - not even Revan - can truly destroy the Emperor. He will destroy Revan, then move on to the rest of us. In time, he will consume all life in the galaxy."

Taken from Star Wars: The Old Republic: Shadow of Revan

Using a plot-device to argue your case of Palpatine's superiority won't do you any good.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
You must be losing faith. Any other time you're quick to look up info. It doesn't really matter, since nothing contradicts any of the sources. Is there a rule that we ignore sources after a certain amount of years?

If I am wrong, you should provide evidence.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Blasted does not inherently infer that weapons were involved, blasting someone or something with the Force has an equal likelihood implied. What supports this interpretation is the fact numerous sources state that Darth Nihilus alone was responsible for the destruction of those planets, not his fleet.

Originally posted by AncientPower
On the subject of his fleet, he is the sole reason those ships were intact and maintained power in the first place. So the fact he could hold together an entire fleet of ships, power them and drain those planets at the same time only increases the impressiveness of his feats.

Vitiate also multi-tasked in his actions:

On Dromund Kaas, Vitiate siphoned life force of many individuals, empowered his minions (when necessary), and perform Voice-related feats or engage in combat situations. All of these actions simultaneously sometimes.

On Ziost, Vitiate possessed all inhabitants of the planet and utilized them to kill each other and perform other actions, simultaneously feeding on their deaths.

The ships he used in his fleet are all wrecks, held together by his immense power:

"This ship… is it his weakness? It should not exist, yet it cruises the darkness between the stars. He tore it from the mass shadows of Malachor, along with his fleet… that is a measure of his power."

Originally posted by AncientPower
The ships he used in his fleet are all wrecks, held together by his immense power:

"This ship… is it his weakness? It should not exist, yet it cruises the darkness between the stars. He tore it from the mass shadows of Malachor, along with his fleet… that is a measure of his power."

LOL at citing parthenogenesis though. Because you know, humans totally do that.

The state of the Interdictor-class cruisers in his fleet supports the statement that his fleet along with his flagship the Ravager Centurion-class battleship were torn out of the mass shadows and are pulled through space by his power alone. There are numerous statements confirming this.

This is one of the greatest telekinetic feats in all of the lore, simultaneously annihilating planets with his own power makes it one of the greatest feats of all time bar none.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Anakin was born BEFORE Sidious became the most powerful Sith, hell before Sidious even became the most powerful Sith alive at the time, so the fact that Anakin was born has nothing, absolutely nothing, to do with this thread. Anakin's existence came about because of the combined efforts of Plagueis and Sidious. Not because Sidious was super powerful.

That was Plagueis's theory, not a confirmed fact. Fact of the matter is Lucas and the Essential Guide confirms Anakin fulfilled his prophecy by destroying Sidious. Nothing contradicts that. As I said, destroying Sidious's diffused the dark side on a cosmic level. I never said it has a bearing in combat, but it is something that was directly tied to Sidious unmatched connection to the dark side, which is a product of power, and something the force perceived as a threat, whether or not Sidious had yet to fully tap into his full power over the force. If this wasn't the case, then Palpatine's death would be irrelevant in restoring balance back, which is the very thing that did bring it back into balance. Anakin's birth was also prophesied thousands of years before Sidious was ever born, and before the force was out of balance, but it doesn't change the fact that Sidious was the imbalance. So by your logic Palpatine had absolutley nothing to do with the imbalance, and Anakin wasn't born to bring balance, since his prophesied birth was way before the great imbalance.

Originally posted by AncientPower
The state of the Interdictor-class cruisers in his fleet supports the statement that his fleet along with his flagship the Ravager Centurion-class battleship were torn out of the mass shadows and are pulled through space by his power alone. There are numerous statements confirming this.

This is one of the greatest telekinetic feats in all of the lore, simultaneously annihilating planets with his own power makes it one of the greatest feats of all time bar none.

However, during the Dark Wars, the Sith Lord Darth Nihilus manages to resurrect one of the crushed battlecruisers from Malachor V, turning the wreck of the [I]Ravager into a spaceworthy ghost ship.[/I]

Taken from Knights of the Old Republic: Campaign Guide

Ravager is the only starship in the fleet whom Darth Nihilus is implied to have held together:

Darth Nihilus's dark will held the vessel and its crew together.

Taken from Star Wars: The Complete Encyclopedia

A very impressive showing nonetheless. But this was possible in part due to Nihilus drawing strength from his followers 24/7.

---

Darth Jadus have comparable showing, a feat of pure raw power.

Darth Jadus uses the Force to hold a 600 meter Harrower-class Dreadnought together, despite military reports stating that the vessel had been completely destroyed:

"All military channels are reporting in. The Dominator has been completely destroyed."

- Watcher Two (Star Wars: The Old Republic)

"Nothing could have survived that explosion. All sources confirm. Casualties are one hundred percent."

- Watcher Two (Star Wars: The Old Republic)

"The shvash gas incinerated only part of the ship. My power held together the remains."

- Darth Jadus (Star Wars: The Old Republic)

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Thanks for the tip.

That remark is absolutely hyperbolic. No manifestation of Force power is large and potent enough to consume all of space. That is a matter of poor writing. Even the original DE sources don't hype Force Storm to such an extent.

Here is a realistic revelation:

In a last-minute reversal, a dark side Force storm intended to obliterate the New Republic headquarters consumed the Emperor instead - leaving the Dark Empire leaderless.

Taken from [B]Star Wars: The Essential Atlas

The aforementioned revelation is compatible with the revelations in Dark Empire comics.

Its not a vague vision, its a vision about what would have happened if Vitiate had completed his ultimate ritual. You attempted to dismiss Vitiate's ultimate ritual as a sham, and I provided evidence to counter your criticism.

Anakin's potential is highest on record.

Virgin births occur in reality: http://www.bbc.com/earth/story/20141219-spectacular-real-virgin-births

Say what you want but Vitiate have actually harmed the Force on one occasion; Nathema. In addition, Vitiate posed much greater threat to the galaxy then Palpatine; Vitiate would consume the entire galaxy in time, if not stopped.

If the Force have its own will then it is apparent that it have turned both Jedi and Sith against Vitiate to stop him. Because Vitiate have become so powerful that a lone individual cannot stop him.

"No one person - not even Revan - can truly destroy the Emperor. He will destroy Revan, then move on to the rest of us. In time, he will consume all life in the galaxy."

Taken from Star Wars: The Old Republic: Shadow of Revan

Using a plot-device to argue your case of Palpatine's superiority won't do you any good.

I have checked the sources. The Essential Chronology books have not been revised since 2005.

If I am wrong, you should provide evidence. [/B]

I guess Sidious's is powerful enough since an omniscience source straight out tells us. There's no reason to think an omniscience source was exaggerating. There has been characters from other works (marvel, DC, etc) that have beings destroying multiple universes. Sounds ridiculous, but this is all just fiction in case you've missed. And, as I said, no other source contradicts it. The source you provided only gives us Palps intentions. While the Comics Companion provides us the full threat of the storm.

The vision about Vitiate was vague and exaggerated. No power can consume the entire galaxy.

Maybe it wasn't that source, but as I said, it doesn't matter. You have no authority to toss out sources.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
I guess Sidious's is powerful enough since an omniscience source straight out tells us. There's no reason to think an omniscience source was exaggerating. There has been characters from other works (marvel, DC, etc) that have beings destroying multiple universes. Sounds ridiculous, but this is all just fiction in case you've missed. And, as I said, no other source contradicts it. The source you provided only gives us Palps intentions. While the Comics Companion provides us the full threat of the storm.

For example, Star Wars: The Ultimate Visual Guide contains this statement:

According to one record, the Sith Lord Darth Nihilus is aboard his flagship, the Ravager, when he is defeated by the handmaiden known as Briana.

This was an error, that was corrected in the Updated and Expanded edition released years later.

Another example of hyperbole is the statement that even a supermassive black hole couldn't move Luke Skywalker. However, the act of manipulating even a small Vong black hole, pushed Luke Skywalker to his limits. And neither it should be assumed that Luke Skywalker would be able to counter a cosmic black hole, should he run into one. It is important to distinguish hyperbole from realism.

Marvel characters are not my concern.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
The vision about Vitiate was vague and exaggerated. No power can consume the entire galaxy.

Vitiate's ultimate ritual is officially intended to be that powerful.

Lord Scourge's reveals the Emperor's true goal for the war: to complete a Sith ritual that will grant him unlimited power and immortality by eradicating all life in the galaxy.

Taken from Star Wars: The Old Republic: Encyclopedia

I accept your concession in this part in advance.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Maybe it wasn't that source, but as I said, it doesn't matter. You have no authority to toss out sources.

Since Star Wars is a continuously expanding lore, their is always a need to revise sourcebooks that cover galactic history.