Most powerful Sith? Spring 2015 ed.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
I'll take that as a concession.

We witness oceans getting vaporized from space, a development that we don't get to experience on the region of Ziost that is accessible to us as players. In addition, we don't have an idea of how much damage the violent tremors caused on the entire planet. But the accessible region contains examples of landscapes damaged by violent tremors.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
If your appealing to ambiguity what you're failing to comprehend is that Nihilus superior destructive ability is a reflection of its holistic superiority in terms of raw power. If the side-effects of the ability were more potent, we can assume the Force drain itself to match in superior potency.

Intensity wise, the raw power of Vitiate's expression of Force Drain produced violent tremors across the planet and shook even the space stations orbiting the planet. In comparison, we can only speculate about the intensity of Nihilus's expression of Force Drain due to limited information.

More importantly, the real criteria of evaluating superiority of Force Drain powers is to measure their effects on living beings, oceans, and atmosphere. These are the matters in which potency of Force Drain powers can be accurately gauged. And Vitiate's Force Drain powers have proved to be most potent in these matters. End of story.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Because in killing all life on Katarr, Nihilus would have replicated it.

And of course if he's tearing down cities the landscape is hardly going to be in the best shape.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Aside from the man made and natural structures, right? Its called looking at comparable evidence. This is nice and all, but proves nothing.

REMINDER:

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Here are some scenes of devastation:-

Remains of a structure:

Damaged surface of the planet:

Damaged trees:

There is lot more.

--

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Uh-huh.

Okely dokely.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
I'm not saying they could survive, I'm saying Nihilus gets the prize for quantity and quality. 👆

Vitiate's expression of Force Drain:-

1. Atomizing life forms? Check
2. Consuming oceans? Check
3. Harming atmosphere? Check
4. Creating violent tremors on planetary-scale with sheer intensity? Check
5. Shaking space stations orbiting the planet with sheer intensity? Check
6. Cannot be tanked? Check
7. Imperial structures and planetary landscapes damaged by violent tremors? Check

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
That's great, but considering the Force was thrown out of balance while Plagueis was still very much alive, the point is irrelevant. Sidious continuing something he and his master started doesn't change the fact that Anakin wasn't born because of Palpatine's superior power to everything before him. It takes some serious hoop jumping to justify that. Palpatine's death restoring balance doesn't lend credence to that fact either. It wasn't Palpatine's strength in the Force that made the Force out of balance.

Considering Palpatine's own power had a lot to do with what him and Plagueis started, and the fact that Plagueis's own death was pretty much irrelevant to the force, with Palpatine being the direct target, I'd say, yes, it does lend credence to Palpatine being superior to everyone before him in the dark side, whether it was fully tapped or not. Without Palpatine, there would be no imbalance, therefore no reason for Anakin's existence. Usually vaccines are created to prevent a full scale outbreak of a certain contagious disease, but that doesn't mean the threat of the outbreak isn't or was never there, otherwise there would be no reason to create one. That the force created a being to counteract Palpatine's influence over the force, before Palpatine was at full power, has no bearing on the threat Palpatine was perceived to be, and the threat he became at the very end. I mean, it's very cut and dry: Anakin's destiny was to kill Sidious, and cut him off his power over the force, which is a prophecy that was to be fulfilled. I mean, we might as well say, well Anakin wasn't born to bring order back to the force, since he wasn't leaping out of Schmi's cooch, full power, with a lightsaber in his hand, ready to take out any opposition to the force. He was a harmless baby, who couldn't even walk. That has absolutely no bearing on what he was to become, and the prophecy he was to fulfill.

You do realize Vitiate wouldn't even be where he's at now if he hadn't started with a ritual that consisted of thousands of other sith lords, but that's hardly relevant to what he became, and the threat he now poses, which still isn't even on Palpatine's level of threat. And yes that reason logically being, that he didn't possess the power and influence over the force the way Sidious did.

Lol. S66 you so cray cray!

"Leaping out of Shmi's cooch" 😂

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
That's great, but considering the Force was thrown out of balance while Plagueis was still very much alive, the point is irrelevant. Sidious continuing something he and his master started doesn't change the fact that Anakin wasn't born because of Palpatine's superior power to everything before him. It takes some serious hoop jumping to justify that. Palpatine's death restoring balance doesn't lend credence to that fact either. It wasn't Palpatine's strength in the Force that made the Force out of balance.

How would you explain it? S66 has a point: the fact that this all pretty much began and end with Sheev whilst guys like Bane and Nihilus and Vitiate never warranted a cosmic counterattack does indicate that he's no ordinary Sith.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
How would you explain it? S66 has a point: the fact that this all pretty much began and end with Sheev whilst guys like Bane and Nihilus and Vitiate never warranted a cosmic counterattack does indicate that he's no ordinary Sith.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Considering Palpatine's own power had a lot to do with what him and Plagueis started, and the fact that Plagueis's own death was pretty much irrelevant to the force, with Palpatine being the direct target, I'd say, yes, it does lend credence to Palpatine being superior to everyone before him in the dark side, whether it was fully tapped or not.

Without Palpatine, there would be no imbalance,

therefore no reason for Anakin's existence.

Usually vaccines are created to prevent a full scale outbreak of a certain contagious disease, but that doesn't mean the threat of the outbreak isn't or was never there, otherwise there would be no reason to create one.

That the force created a being to counteract Palpatine's influence over the force, before Palpatine was at full power, has no bearing on the threat Palpatine was perceived to be, and the threat he became at the very end. I mean, it's very cut and dry: Anakin's destiny was to kill Sidious, and cut him off his power over the force, which is a prophecy that was to be fulfilled. I mean, we might as well say, well Anakin wasn't born to bring order back to the force, since he wasn't leaping out of Schmi's cooch, full power, with a lightsaber in his hand, ready to take out any opposition to the force. He was a harmless baby, who couldn't even walk. That has absolutely no bearing on what he was to become, and the prophecy he was to fulfill.

You do realize Vitiate wouldn't even be where he's at now if he hadn't started with a ritual that consisted of thousands of other sith lords, but that's hardly relevant to what he became, and the threat he now poses, which still isn't even on Palpatine's level of threat. And yes that reason logically being, that he didn't possess the power and influence over the force the way Sidious did.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Because it the "cosmic counterattack" happened because of something Plagueis did. Not something Palpatine did. I can hype Sidious as much as the next guy, but it's really ridiculous to claim his power has anything to do with the fact that Anakin needed to be born, especially since Anakin didn't need anywhere near his full potential to kill him.

You're arguing just to argue. What did Plagueis do to the force that Palpatine didn't?

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Because it the "cosmic counterattack" happened because of something Plagueis did. Not something Palpatine did. I can hype Sidious as much as the next guy, but it's really ridiculous to claim his power has anything to do with the fact that Anakin needed to be born, especially since Anakin didn't need anywhere near his full potential to kill him.

That's not the case though. If it was all about Plagueis, wouldn't have it ended when he died? If it was all about Mortis, wouldn't that have ended upon the Father's death? It ended with Sidious. If you reject S66's explanation, I'm inviting you to provide your own. Because it's pretty obvious that something is special about ol Sheev.

The effects of Darth Plagueis' death are actually quite interesting in this respect:

Source: Darth Plagueis

A tremor took hold of the planet.

Sprung from death, it unleashed itself in a powerful wave, at once burrowing deep into the world’s core and radiating through its saccharine atmosphere to shake the stars themselves. At the quake’s epicenter stood Sidious, one elegant hand vised on the burnished sill of an expansive translucency, a vessel filled suddenly to bursting, the Force so strong within him that he feared he might disappear into it, never to return. But the moment didn’t constitute an ending so much as a true beginning, long overdue; it was less a transformation than an intensification—a gravitic shift.

A welter of voices, near and far, present and from eons past, drowned his thoughts. Raised in praise, the voices proclaimed his reign and cheered the inauguration of a new order. Yellow eyes lifted to the night sky, he saw the trembling stars flare, and in the depth of his being he felt the power of the dark side anoint him.

Thing is, though it was Plagueis & Sidious combined who shifted the balance in the Force, that was not a permanent change. Both Plagueis' and Sidious' existence was necessary to sustain that imbalance. But when Plagueis died, Sidious is all that remains, and therefore all that remains to sustain the imbalance in the Force.

From then on Sidious becomes solely responsible, because he is strong enough at that point. On that note:

Source: Revenge of the Sith novelisation

Depowered lampdisks were rings of ghostly gray floating in the gloom. The shimmering jewelscape of Coruscant haloed the knife-edged shadow of the chair.

This was the office of the Chancellor.

Within the chair’s shadow sat another shadow: deeper, darker, formless and impenetrable, an abyssal umbra so profound that it drained light from the room around it.

And from the city. And the planet.

And the galaxy.

Dark Empire Sourcebook

Only Palpatine has been able to spread his darkness completely and totally over and entire galaxy.

I dunno, it's pretty common for Sith to have euphoric delusions of grandior. I wouldn't take it too seriously, a lot of that seemed like hyperbole.

And what exactly do you think it means for Sidious to maintain the imbalance? I doubt it was anything he needed to work at or that speaks of his unimaginable power, myself.

Originally posted by Nephthys
I dunno, it's pretty common for Sith to have euphoric delusions of grandior. I wouldn't take it too seriously, a lot of that seemed like hyperbole.

But yes, feel threatened.

Originally posted by Nephthys
I doubt it was anything he needed to work at or that speaks of his unimaginable power, myself.

The RotS novel is notorious for its flowery descriptions and rampant hyperbole thats purely for effect. That description of Sidious probably doesn't mean anything at all. And that Plagueis extract is kind of silly, Plagueis didn't shake the stars or cause them to flare. That's absurd. The whole thing kind of sounds like a few other descriptions of darksiders getting swept up in the majesty of the darkside and rambling about how amazing they feel.

Yet the Plagueis novel makes it clear that the Force was unresistant. Obviously he was sustaining it, but theres nothing indicating it would be some great feat for him to be doing so. Like you said, seemingly he just needed to be alive to do it.

I'd also add, to lend credence to this theory, that according to Darth Plagueis the Jedi Order maintained the balance of the Force and protected themselves against the dark side by bathing the galaxy in the light side in the form of a Force bubble - merely by virtue existence.

Originally posted by Nephthys
The RotS novel is notorious for its flowery descriptions and rampant hyperbole thats purely for effect. That description of Sidious probably doesn't mean anything at all. And that Plagueis extract is kind of silly, Plagueis didn't shake the stars or cause them to flare. That's absurd. It sounds like a few other descriptions of darksiders getting swept up in the majesty of the darkside and rambling about how amazing they feel.

Yet the Plagueis novel makes it clear that the Force was unresistant. Obviously he was sustaining it, but theres nothing indicating it would be some great feat for him to be doing so. Like you said, seemingly he just needed to be alive to do it.

For the record, that's more impressive that actually trying.

We must also bear in mind that Neph is pretty staunchly anti-Sidious, which clearly affects his judgment on the issue tbh.

Nihilus > Vitiate tbh, Nihilus is the darkness in which all life dies tbh.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Yes Sir.

Ah, very good. At least my thread is being put to work.

So now Palpatine is special? Lol