Originally posted by The_Tempest
Their turmoil nourishes me. excellent
The day may yet come when they realise that accepting Sheevism is the only way their struggle can end. I've entertained the insipid Dark Empire rip-off quite long enough; best cleanse myself with a good reread of Dark Rendezvous or Shatterpoint.
Originally posted by Beniboybling
OK, so what if that were the case? Metaphor implies resemblance, so if destructive range of Palpatine's Force Storm resembles "all of space", that at the very least suggests the obliteration of everything in the immediate vicinity. Including the planet, if not the system.
Originally posted by Beniboybling
Cool. Nonetheless the planet remained intact did it not? That doesn't make equal to the total planetary destruction a Force storm could affect.
FYI:
Force Drain powers are among the most difficult to master and use for offensive purposes; to unleash them on a planetary-scale, is a task that would take nearly the entire Jedi order to pull off with collective effort.
2. We don't have solid evidence of a Force Storm capable of obliterating a planet; Force Storm resembles and manifests like a wormhole (its not a blackhole). This isn't to say that a Force Storm cannot consume matter under the right circumstances but it has to be really really massive to stand a chance at consuming an entire planet.
FYI:
Luke Skywalker did not assert that Darth Sidious could conjure a Force Storm large and powerful enough to obliterate a planet, he described the potential of the power in general sense.
Originally posted by Beniboybling
That would be nyice if said building weren't two kilometers tall, and 3 square kilometers in area. 👆
Originally posted by Beniboybling
Then I guess Valkorion can be stopped by conventional means right?
Originally posted by Beniboybling
See above.
Originally posted by Beniboybling
Yesh. 🙂
I don't think that Luke Skywalker had the raw power to dominate the likes of Satele Shan and Darth Marr simultaneously at that time, not even close.
Originally posted by Beniboybling
Nope, Revan's application of tutanimis was unsuccessful. And lmao at Vitiate being capable of atomising him.
Revan's defenses were working and that is how he managed to endure that attack and minimize the damage. If his defenses had not been working, Revan would not have just died but much worse would have happened to his body.
To give you an idea, a standard burst of Force Lightning from Darth Nyriss was sufficient to utterly incinerate virtually defenseless beings and Valkorion's expression was significantly more potent in comparison. Imagine what Valkorion's expression would have done to a virtually defenseless being (I suppose we can consider the example of the fate of T3-M4). Beneath the layers of defenses, the body of a Jedi is just as fragile as that of a normal human. Valkorion's Force Lightning Storm would have nearly atomized a virtually defenseless being, full stop.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
All of space could also refer to distance between the Force Storm and Luke Skywalker's position. 🙂
Actually, it really can't.
1. That was an expression of Force Drain; such powers affect the external environment differently then other powers. Nonetheless, Valkorion's showing can be described as killing a world. It's an example of the corrosive power of the Dark Side taken to the extreme.
I think you'd both be better off if you stopped arguing about semantics and look at the feat itself.
Force Drain powers are among the most difficult to master and use for offensive purposes; to unleash them on a planetary-scale, is a task that would take nearly the entire Jedi order to pull off with collective effort.
I think you just pulled that out of your ass.
2. We don't have solid evidence of a Force Storm capable of obliterating a planet; Force Storm resembles and manifests like a wormhole (its not a blackhole). This isn't to say that a Force Storm cannot consume matter under the right circumstances but it has to be really really massive to stand a chance at consuming an entire planet.
It can't. It can destroy the surfaces of worlds, "killing it" in the same sense that Valkorion kills planets.
An ancient Sith Lord destroyed an entire city and you are talking about a single building. Your point is moot.
It's the friggin' Jedi Temple, though. Bringing down something like that on a whim with telekinesis is absolutely astonishing.
I don't think that Luke Skywalker had the raw power to dominate the likes of Satele Shan and Darth Marr simultaneously at that time, not even close.
I do.
This is nonsense.
👆 tbh
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenDHuh? I'm sorry you'll have to explain that.
All of space could also refer to distance between the Force Storm and Luke Skywalker's position. 🙂
That was an expression of Force Drain; such powers affect the external environment differently then other powers. Nonetheless, Valkorion's showing can be described as killing a world. It's an example of the corrosive power of the Dark Side taken to the extreme.OK.
Force Drain powers are among the most difficult to master and use for offensive purposes; to unleash them on a planetary-scale, is a task that would take nearly the entire Jedi order to pull off with collective effort.Lel, what Sas said.
Nonetheless, the Force storm has been described one of the most powerful Force abilities in existence, so clearly highly advanced - and Palpatine can create them with a thought.
We don't have solid evidence of a Force Storm capable of obliterating a planet; Force Storm resembles and manifests like a wormhole (its not a blackhole). This isn't to say that a Force Storm cannot consume matter under the right circumstances but it has to be really really massive to stand a chance at consuming an entire planet.Luke says it can kill a world, its stated to have been about to "take over" Da Soocha, and further "all of space", so we've no reason to assume it cannot consume a planet, and plenty evidence it can.
As to the level of destruction that would be wrought, stripping the surface is a guarantee, which already surpasses the Ziost feat. And considering it destroyed a capital ship that could feasibly tank planet-busting impact, far more catastrophic damage is well within reason.
An ancient Sith Lord destroyed an entire city and you are talking about a single building. Your point is moot.Who? And @Sas it wasn't the Jedi Temple, its the Legends Imperial Palace.
Darth Marr's admitted this "after" the events of Ziost. Context, my friend. 🙂OK, so did Luke after the events of Da Soocha. 😬
See what?My response to Skillz.
Nope.Irrelevant considering that was after his powers intensified.I don't think that Luke Skywalker had the raw power to dominate the likes of Satele Shan and Darth Marr simultaneously at that time, not even close.
This is nonsense.See my response to Neph.Revan's defenses were working and that is how he managed to endure that attack and minimize the damage. If his defenses had not been working, Revan would not have just died but much worse would have happened to his body.
To give you an idea, a standard burst of Force Lightning from Darth Nyriss was sufficient to utterly incinerate virtually defenseless beings and Valkorion's expression was significantly more potent in comparison. Imagine what Valkorion's expression would have done to a virtually defenseless being (I suppose we can consider the example of the fate of T3-M4). Beneath the layers of defenses, the body of a Jedi is just as fragile as that of a normal human. Valkorion's Force Lightning Storm would have nearly atomized a virtually defenseless being, full stop.
By this logic Darth Sidious, who was able to reduce individuals to ashes with his lightning, should have done so to both Windu and Yoda below.
Considering they both failed to erect a defense.
They were not however, because what you are saying simply isn't true, a Force user is only as defenseless as a muggle if stripped of their power completely.
Lmao. How arbitrary. So in Canon a blast of Palpy's lighting is non-lethal?
And what about in Son of Dathomir where we have Dooku killing various individuals with his lightning, yet he can't do the same to a defenseless Ventress, Anakin or some two-bit Nightsisters, within the same continuity?
Another inconsistency I presume?
Originally posted by Beniboybling
😬Calm down Neph, even if a Force user doesn't erect a proper defense they still remain passively resistant against Force based attacks.
So let me get this straight: You think Revan was so absurdly more powerful than Nyriss was that he could straight up tank an attack infinitely more powerful than the one that was able to instantly burn her to ash even after having to expend power getting through her barrier. And you think this qualifies as "defenseless".
So you're still being a moron.
In any case, prove this theory with a direct quote. The book gave us a direct comparison between Nyriss and Revan. Obviously Revan managed to block some of the attack, otherwise he'd have died. You selectively highlighted the quote, it says he failed to draw them in and contain them, a perfectly valid alternative is that he drew them in and couldn't contain all of the energy. Or that he was only able to draw in and contain some of the attack.
However, the fact remains that Revan was using a defensive technique, so the idea that he was defenseless is utterly absurd.
Originally posted by Beniboybling
Nonetheless, the Force storm has been described one of the most powerful Force abilities in existence, so clearly highly advanced - and Palpatine can create them with a thought.
But hardly unique. Pre-Ruusan Jedi were capable of utilising the technique. If it were truly so powerful as to threaten all of space, a concept absurd enough to safely ignore entirely imo, they would surely have sought to eliminate all knowledge of such an incomprehensibly dangerous technique.
Originally posted by Beniboybling
See my response to Neph.By this logic Darth Sidious, who was able to reduce individuals to ashes with his lightning, should have done so to both Windu and Yoda below.
Considering they both failed to erect a defense.
They were not however, because what you are saying simply isn't true, a Force user is only as defenseless as a muggle if stripped of their power completely.
No, they erected a defense but Sidious' lightning tore through it. Or in the case of Windu he wanted to torture him like he would Luke, instead of just turn him to ash boringly. As with Yoda it can be seen that Yoda managed to block enough of the damage to not be killed, but merely wounded.
(I could also swear that you've used the "Sidious overpowered Yoda's defenses in that scene, therefore his lightning > Vitiate's" argument before. Which would make you a dirty, dirty hypocrite)
Originally posted by Beniboybling
Lmao. How arbitrary. So in Canon a blast of Palpy's lighting is non-lethal?And what about in Son of Dathomir where we have Dooku killing various individuals with his lightning, yet he can't do the same to a defenseless Ventress, Anakin or some two-bit Nightsisters, within the same continuity?
Another inconsistency I presume?
Gosh, it's almost as if Force Users have some manner of Force defenses or something. Or that Dooku was weakened and tired when he did that to Ventress and co. Or that he had a reason not to kill Skywalker. Hmm.
Originally posted by Beniboybling
So did I... but basic reasoning often goes out the window when discussing Vitiate. 🙂
Doesn't PoD dispel that notion by talking about how Force users were trained to always keep up a barrier so as not to get blindsided by cheap force attacks? If they could just resist weak attacks innately it would be irrelevant.
Doesn't PoD dispel that notion by talking about how Force users were trained to always keep up a barrier so as not to get blindsided by cheap force attacks? If they could just resist weak attacks innately it would be irrelevant.
I assumed the barriers were to either negate weaker force attacks entirely so they would not be a distraction during a fight or to hinder stronger attacks from dealing real damage. Innate defenses simply keep you from being killed by one of these stronger attacks and the weaker attacks might only distract or mildly harm you.