Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
consume all of space aspect.
I'm getting the feeling that the word metaphor doesn't quite mean what you think it means.
It is not a power that you see everyday in use but it is an offensive application.
They're all offensive applications, Bane only mentioned difficulty in *combative* applications.
Originally posted by Beniboybling
Huh? I'm sorry you'll have to explain that.
Originally posted by Beniboybling
OK.
Originally posted by Beniboybling
Lel, what Sas said.
"It is extremely difficult to employ in combat and is derived from the teachings of Zelashiel the Blasphemer in the Holocron of Darth Revan." (Darth Bane)
As for the difficulty factor:-
Control difficulty: very difficult
Sense difficulty: vary (Heroic for siphoning life-force of millions)
Alter difficulty: vary (Heroic for siphoning life-force of enemies)
Stats from The Dark Empire Source book
Satisfied now?
Originally posted by Beniboybling
Nonetheless, the Force storm has been described one of the most powerful Force abilities in existence, so clearly highly advanced - and Palpatine can create them with a thought.Luke says it can kill a world, its stated to have been about to "take over" Da Soocha, and further "all of space", so we've no reason to assume it cannot consume a planet, and plenty evidence it can.
Majority of the powers are conjured with a thought; no need to mention this.
Which Da Soocha? There were several. Also, provide some information.
I am not dismissing Luke's claim that the referred power have the potential to kill a world. My point of contention is that this would take a Force Storm of proportions that we have not seen before.
Originally posted by Beniboybling
As to the level of destruction that would be wrought, stripping the surface is a guarantee, which already surpasses the Ziost feat. And considering it destroyed a capital ship that could feasibly tank planet-busting impact, far more catastrophic damage is well within reason.
Yes; the two Force powers are intrinsically different in nature and affect the external environment differently accordingly. It is silly to compare the two powers in the aspect of destroying solid matter. Force Drain powers are intended to consume soft targets (only); the most powerful expressions of Force Drain might pack sufficient kinetic energy to collapse structures and cause seismic activity in the region but these developments are not intentional.
A comparison between the two only makes sense in the context of assessing the level of difficulty involved in conjuring an expression of Force Drain power that is potent enough to kill a world and conjuring a Force Storm that can achieve similar results.
We have quantitative evidence of the number of individuals involved in making a Nathema-like event possible; nearly the entire Jedi Order. Alternatively, it takes a Force Wound-based feeding monstrosity (i.e. Darth Nihilus) to pull-off the same. Its a demonstration of a godlike power as per the standards of Star Wars saga.
Originally posted by Beniboybling
Who? And @Sas it wasn't the Jedi Temple, its the Legends Imperial Palace.
Originally posted by Beniboybling
OK, so did Luke after the events of Da Soocha. 😬
Originally posted by Beniboybling
My response to Skillz.
Revan's defenses were working. However, the FLS still mortally wounded him. It's a testament to Vitiate's prowess with Force Lightning and what can happen when the intent behind it is to kill.
Originally posted by Beniboybling
Irrelevant considering that was after his powers intensified.
Originally posted by Beniboybling
See my response to Neph.By this logic Darth Sidious, who was able to reduce individuals to ashes with his lightning, should have done so to both Windu and Yoda below.
Considering they both failed to erect a defense.
They were not however, because what you are saying simply isn't true, a Force user is only as defenseless as a muggle if stripped of their power completely.
George Lucas perceives Force Lightning as a torturing Dark Side ability that kills the victim slowly. Not my fault. Moreover, you can't say for sure that both Mace Windu and Yoda failed to erect some form of defense. We don't see Force shield in the works on-screen in any confrontation for example.
Even the Force Lightning of the Son did nothing much to Obi-Wan Kenobi in canon content:
Moreover, on-screen depictions are not supposed to be gory because of the viewership.
Other then the above, Palpatine reduced 3 acolytes to skeletal remains with an FLS on a nexus setting. However, these acolytes weren't some powerhouses and their defensive abilities are largely unknown.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenDI think not. 🙂
All of space inside the flagship? 😄
Here:OK, but Sas makes good points in this regard as well."It is extremely difficult to employ in combat and is derived from the teachings of Zelashiel the Blasphemer in the Holocron of Darth Revan." (Darth Bane)
As for the difficulty factor:-
Control difficulty: very difficult
Sense difficulty: vary (Heroic for siphoning life-force of millions)
Alter difficulty: vary (Heroic for siphoning life-force of enemies)Stats from The Dark Empire Source book
Satisfied now?
Majority of the powers are conjured with a thought; no need to mention this.Low-level Force powers, abilities of grander scale typically require preparation, ritual, or at least a gathering of power.
Case in point, Vitiate could not unleash a Lightning storm upon Revan with a thought. He had to gather his power, giving his opponent time to assess his options. We also cannot be sure the consumption of Ziost didn't require a level of preparation.
Palpatine's ability to generate such a level of power instantaneously is therefore extremely impressive, and not to be dismissed.
Which Da Soocha? There were several. Also, provide some information.The Pinnacle Moon, and what information are you asking for exactly?
I am not dismissing Luke's claim that the referred power have the potential to kill a world. My point of contention is that this would take a Force Storm of proportions that we have not seen before.1. Which is not unfeasible, considering Palpatine was weakened.
2. Consuming the planet isn't the only way to feasibly kill it. If the Force storm were the burrow into its crust the planet would eventually fracture and break apart.
Repeating my statement:Fair enough. But I'm not seeing the Force storm as any less easy or "god-like."Yes; the two Force powers are intrinsically different in nature and affect the external environment differently accordingly. It is silly to compare the two powers in the aspect of destroying solid matter. Force Drain powers are intended to consume soft targets (only); the most powerful expressions of Force Drain might pack sufficient kinetic energy to collapse structures and cause seismic activity in the region but these developments are not intentional.
A comparison between the two only makes sense in the context of assessing the level of difficulty involved in conjuring an expression of Force Drain power that is potent enough to kill a world and conjuring a Force Storm that can achieve similar results.
We have quantitative evidence of the number of individuals involved in making a Nathema-like event possible; nearly the entire Jedi Order. Alternatively, it takes a Force Wound-based feeding monstrosity (i.e. Darth Nihilus) to pull-off the same. Its a demonstration of a godlike power as per the standards of Star Wars saga.
Lord Fulminiss - one of the greatest Sith Sorcerers of the Empire.Source? To my knowledge he only wiped out populations.
Details?His notes in The Jedi Path, they were written in the wake of the Pinnacle Moon incident.
Revan didn't fail to apply Tutaminis. He was struck by 12 bolts in total and they were hot enough to superheat metal and worse. A virtually defenseless being would have been burned beyond recognition by them and/or worse.All I see are baseless claims. 🙂Revan's defenses were working. However, the FLS still mortally wounded him. It's a testament to Vitiate's prowess with Force Lightning and what can happen when the intent behind it is to kill.
This is funny. Several times you have been told that Revan was fractured during this time and his Light Side manifestation was working against him.And several times I've told you that his powers intensified, by his own words, do you really think Revan doesn't know the measure of his own abilities?
Yes he was fractured, but the trial by fire of his rebirth could well have increased his powers nonetheless, the rebirth Darth Krayt being evidence of this. The fact that he demonstrates a much higher level and purview of abilities reinforcing this.
Also bear in mind that Revan wasn't fractured in terms of strictly light and dark but power and wisdom, the element that remained being power, so don't assume his ability was cut in half.
I can't be bothered with checking your responses to other members again and again. You may repeat your arguments while debating with me, like I do.And I can't be bothered to repeat them. 🙂
George Lucas perceives Force Lightning as a torturing Dark Side ability that kills the victim slowly. Not my fault. Moreover, you can't say for sure that both Mace Windu and Yoda failed to erect some form of defense. We don't see Force shield in the works on-screen in any confrontation for example.Okay, but there is discontinuity within Canon as well, as I explained to Neph. In particular, many beings have been instantly killed by Force Lightning.Even the Force Lightning of the Son did nothing much to Obi-Wan Kenobi in canon content:
Moreover, on-screen depictions are not supposed to be gory because of the viewership.
Other then the above, Palpatine reduced 3 acolytes to skeletal remains with an FLS on a nexus setting. However, these acolytes weren't some powerhouses and their defensive abilities are largely unknown.
I think that when coming up with these lists in the future, Im just going to cut out those with a scarcity of feats or appearances and just make them the honorable mentions tbh.
My mind can't take trying to sort out who is better between a bunch of Ancient/Banite Sith with little/no appearances to go on anymore ngl.
I figure if we're not including little-known Banites/Ancients like Tenebrous, Cognus, Tulak, Ragnos, etc. that the top 10 should probably consist of: (not necessarily in this order)
Darth Sidious
Valkorion
Darth Plagueis
Sarasu Taalon
Darth Krayt
Darth Caedus
Darth Vader
Exar Kun
Darth Revan
Karness Muur
Anyone have any ideas for peeps I could be forgetting? Too many Sith to keep track of them all, tbh.
EDIT: Who's pumped for Twilight of the Apprentice tonight?