How does an "implication" make a point moot, Leg.?
Originally posted by psmith81992
That nobody takes your "argument" seriously because it's not a legitimate debating tactic. You're just wasting space..Yea no. Even Gideon wouldn't reach that far. Your assumptions are hysterical.
Actually, there is a source that says Sidious opened a wormhole or some such in ROTJ. I'll find it for you.
Originally posted by Stigma
pre-prime Sidious bending the will of the Force > Vitiate's feats
Exactly. Right now we are comparing Vitiate's uber yet not combat applicable feats to Sidious' pure combat feats.
If we take into account the stuff that Sidious did outside of combat, his superiority would be even clearer. 👆
Originally posted by Sinious
Exactly. Right now we are comparing Vitiate's uber yet not combat applicable feats to Sidious' pure combat feats.If we take into account the stuff that Sidious did outside of combat, his superiority would be even clearer. 👆
Sidious' combat feats>Vitiate's combat feats
Vitiate's force feats>Sidious' force feats.
Originally posted by psmith81992
Go ahead. Looks like you have your legend too lol.
Not sure why you're comparing Beni to Leg.
http://www.comicvine.com/profile/silver2467
I'm typing from my iPhone so I'm limited with formatting and quoting, but the source is from Star Wars Gamer #5 and the quote is in this thread. I can paste it later if you don't wanna look.
Originally posted by Sinious
Sidious' combat force feats > Vitiate's combat force feats
That's fine. Vitiate's not a combatant. He just wipes everyone out.
Not sure why you're comparing Beni to Leg.
Originally posted by Sinious
Here is my main argument regarding Vitiate vs Sidious:They are comparable in the force. Both have immense power and an a deep understanding of the dark side. However, in DE Palpatine has surpassed any other sith in force powers. It would still be an excellent force fight between the two though. But, Vitiate is not a master of close ranged combat where Sidious is the greatest of all times in this regard as well. The slight superiority in the force + being tiers above in dueling will guarantee Sidious the victory.
+
This revelation:
In his relentless pursuit of immortality, the Emperor explored the most sinister, uncharted depths of the dark side.
Taken from Star Wars: The Old Republic: Encyclopedia
- proves that Vitiate have surpassed any other Sith in Force powers.
---
And Vitiate have best showings in close-ranged combat, I have provided ample proof. Fact is that Vitiate is so powerful and potent with his Force abilities, that he doesn't needs a lightsaber to defeat and kill enemies.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenDYes but they didn't TK it apart, they just used mind domination to cause them to loose control. Anyway, its not really relevant.
Hint: Oricon quest giver.The Dread Masters casted powerful images on a Republic task force (fleet) and this resulted in the devastation of the task force.
The remains of starships floating around Oricon belong to the referred task force.
Not denying the destructive potential but it have never been conjured on a scale that would be sufficient to ravage an entire planet.1. The Book of Anger was written prior to the events of Dark Empire, where he claimed to have mastered the technique.1. Sidious admitted his shortcoming in controlling Force Storm (Wormhole) power in the book of anger. This implies that Sidious is not capable of conjuring this power on a scale that he would ravage an entire planet with it. Your point is moot.
2. Vitiate's superiority is solid; he have documented evidence of ravaging an entire planet with his powers under his belt.
Furthermore, Sidious also says:
It may take decades to master this art, but once I have perfected it, I will be invincible.
--The Book of Sith
The implication being that Sidious already had the necessary strength to master this power, he merely needed time to practice. If he were not strong enough, he would not be confident that he could perfect this ability.
So no, the implication is it was within Sidious power, to achieve this ability in its entirety, including its ability to kill worlds.
2. I don't deny that, I'm questioning your solid proof that Sidious couldn't replicate it.
Yes, but this doesn't changes the fact that Sidious never managed to ravage an entire planet with this power. Luke Skywalker's opinion, remains an opinion.Not never managed, never required, Sidious never aimed nor tried to destroy an entire planet with the Force, but that doesn't mean he was incapable of doing so.Darth Rivan also conjured a Force Storm (Wormhole) with aid from the Dark Staff. The power conjured was so intense that it teleported Rivan to future and sapped his powers, but it didn't destroy the planet that Rivan inhabited. It destroyed Rivan's army at maximum.
Take into account authorial intentions, that opinion was provided to prove a point, that a Force storm has the power to kill worlds, and that power was held by Darth Sidious, if the authors wanted us to doubt this, they would have given us reason to.
In terms of Darth Rivan:
[list=1][*]He had no intention of killing a planet, it is clear that the Force storm can take many forms, varying in size and purpose.
[*]Darth Rivan ended up meeting his death as a result of this, it is obvious he was dabbling in powers he had no mastery over.
[*]It is unlikely the power Rivan gathered in the Darkstaff was equal to that of Sidious' own power.[/list=1]
Originally posted by The_Tempest
How so?
1. Corrupted the atmosphere of planet Dromund Kaas with his powers.
2. Prevented the Jedi Order to identify his minions (i.e. Children) for centuries with his Force concealment powers.
3. Telepathically dominated all living beings on planet Ziost.
4. Ravaged an entire planet (i.e. Ziost) with his powers, atomizing many living beings in the process.
Vitiate's greatest combat showings:-
1. Stomped an entire Dark Council.
2. Stomped a powerful Jedi Strike Team.
3. Defeated Revan. Even had the capability to defeat the trio of Revan, Meetra, and Scourge simultaneously.
Originally posted by The_TempestI found it for you:
Not sure why you're comparing Beni to Leg.http://www.comicvine.com/profile/silver2467
I'm typing from my iPhone so I'm limited with formatting and quoting, but the source is from Star Wars Gamer #5 and the quote is in this thread. I can paste it later if you don't wanna look.
The moment the Emperor "died" at the Battle of Endor, Droga fell into an inexplicable insanity, butchering his crew and causing the Emperor's Shadow to plunge into Kaal's oceans. Even as he perished, Palpatine used the dark side knowledge the Sith Lords had granted him years earlier to rend space itself and transmigrate his essence across lightyears to Droga's body.
--Taken from Gamer #5
However I was referring to the Book of Anger, where Sidious says he has learned the Force storm technique.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
01. Survived in a ritual that destroyed 8000 other Sith Lord participants.
That would be because it was him performing the ritual on said Sith Lords.
02. Created a nexus of dark side energy on planet Dromund Kaas
Not really special for these high tiers, tbh.
03. Corrupted the entire environment of planet Dromund Kaas.
Not really special for these high tiers, tbh.
04. Concealed the presence of thousands of his minions stationed within the Republic and Jedi Order by virtue of First Son.
Quote for thousands, tbh?
06. Augmented the power of thousands of individuals on galactic-scale.
Quote for thousands, tbh?
07. Defeated an entire Dark Council based Sith Strike Team.
Under unknown circumstances.
08. Defeated Jedi Strike Teams.
So did RotS Sidious
09. Possessed all living beings on planet Ziost, ranging from normal individuals to powerful Force-users.
Proof that he posessed them all at once? The DLC didn't give me that impression at all, tbh, which is probably why you felt the need to italicize "all". Besides, Sidious reportedly mindwiped Byss as well, so I don't see the importance of this tbh.
10. Atomized all life on planet Ziost.
Except the plants apparently. 😬
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
This demonstration:
Amazing, I agree but do you think he atomized an entire planet with raw power? I'm pretty sure its another ritualistic application of the force that helped him end the planet. Still very impressive though.
This revelation:In his relentless pursuit of immortality, the Emperor explored the most sinister, uncharted depths of the dark side.
Taken from Star Wars: The Old Republic: Encyclopedia
- proves that Vitiate have surpassed any other Sith in Force powers.
How does that prove what you claim? Do you really wanna start an accolades war? As a big fan of Vitiate, I would rather not. 🙂
And Vitiate have best showings in close-ranged combat, I have provided ample proof. Fact is that Vitiate is so powerful and potent with his Force abilities, that he doesn't needs a lightsaber to defeat and kill enemies.
Vitiate dominated beings lesser to himself with his force powers, I know. He won't be able to do it to Sidious though.
Originally posted by Beniboybling
The surface i.e. the entire thing. Just as when you say the chair you don't refer to part of the chair but the whole thing.So if he's tearing off the surface its the whole thing, if it were parts of the surface he wouldn't even be torn of, the surface would be damaged or scarred. Luke also claims it can kill worlds, not parts of worlds, entire worlds.
And Sidious wasn't even trying to damage Coruscant so I fail to see your point.
Not necessarily. If I break a part of a chair, then I can be said to have broken the chair. My point was that technically the surface of a planet is just the visible part of it, it doesn't need to extend deeper than that and it's unsubstantiated how much damage Sidious could do. But Tempy yelled at me for this so I'm not going to push the point even though I'm way the f*ck right and yall should recognise.
Luke is speaking from ignorance. Sidious has never actually done that so Luke cannot know that it can do that. But I already indicated that Sidious could tear the surface off planets, it would just take him a really ****ing long time because his Storm is like a mile wide at most. He cannot encompass the globe in the manner that Vitiate did.
I don't know what Sidious did to Coruscant so I cannot speak of that.
Originally posted by Beniboybling
I'm pointing out the fact that if it can obliterate a fleet, it should be able to burrow through solid earth.
Plausibly. He hasn't though. Still, being able to burrow through rock isn't any more impressive than destroying fleets and it doesn't affect my ultimate point.
Originally posted by Beniboybling
Yes you are, your not just saying the Sith Emperor's showings are more impressive, your saying that because the Sith Emperor's showings are more impressive, he is more powerful, because evidently Darth Sidious doesn't have the strength to achieve them.That's an assumption, because its not evident.
That isn't how debating works. Saying that Vitiate is more powerful because he's done something on a level of power above what Sidious has is a totally valid argument that makes for the basis of comparing two characters. Going "well maybe Sidious could do it too" is speculative and hypothetical and is basically complete nonsense that no-one pays any attention to.
It is evident that one character has done one thing. And another has done another thing. And one is more impressive. And the other is not. Dats the truf.
Hilariously though, this is an argument Legend has used time and again for Vitiate. I guess it's true that we all become the things we hate in the end.
Originally posted by Beniboybling
Sidious never had cause to destroy an entire planet, nor did he every dispatch a Force storm with the intent of doing harm to a planet. There is no proof that a Force storm could not cause damage to large amounts of a planet, if not the entire thing, its a possibility, if not even a likelihood.
Again, this is something Legend has said many times. Psmith is right, I don't need to prove a negative. The imaginary scenario in which Sidious did do that, is imaginary and doesn't matter.
(Legend, I hope you know that I don't mean these comparisons to be insulting to you. It's just that Beni will take it that way, so it's a good way to troll him)
Originally posted by Beniboybling
I found it for you:The moment the Emperor "died" at the Battle of Endor, Droga fell into an inexplicable insanity, butchering his crew and causing the Emperor's Shadow to plunge into Kaal's oceans. Even as he perished, Palpatine used the dark side knowledge the Sith Lords had granted him years earlier [b]to rend space itself and transmigrate his essence across lightyears
to Droga's body.--Taken from Gamer #5
However I was referring to the Book of Anger, where Sidious says he has learned the Force storm technique. [/B]
Isn't this just fold space? If Sidious learned that technique from the ancient Sith then it can't be Force Storm since didn't Sidious figure that out himself?