Originally posted by quanchi112
Now after being wrong about the spelling and ignorantly saying I was wrong you spell it with a k like me. Do you have a shred of pride ?Lucian warded it off but acting like someone taking an advantageous attack is cheating is someone who doesn't understand battle. False. Lucian realized it after the fact and realiEd if he widened the opening Viktor could not move. That's fine. Viktor survived and later rose to power. Without sun exploitation he cannot beat him.
He was not trying to kill her. He did not kill her after he beat her. She was taken to trial and judged. Viktor held back and beat her right after she announced her abomination. Viktor won the encounter. His words show he was trying to,lure out Lucian and only after she announces this does her fate change. I backed my case. You didn't.
False. It didn't affect him at all so it wasn't foolish. At no point was tanis responsible for anything negatively happening to Viktor. Quit saying dumb things.
He was asleep.
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He awoke and changed the game. Kraven and Lucian shit bricks when Viktor was awakened.
Markus chose Viktor because he was an excellent strategist and planner. He loved for over a thousand years because he was so excellent. He supplanted Markus and I prisoner his brother. Markus was unable to save his brother while Viktor lived. Masterful.
😂
You rely on wiki while I actually watch the movies. You're an idiot. And continue to spell it the correct way after I mocked you over it.
Post ANY narration or monologue from Viktor that says he threw the fight and wasn't trying to kill her. If not, we'll just go ahead and go with what we see on screen... What is that you ask? That was him shown swinging his sword at her with the intent of killing or maiming her. You don't swing you sword at somebody just for kicks you moron. He wasn't trying to lure Lucian back.. HE WAS ALREADY BACK. Viktor had already lured him back to get her which is who they ended up fighting you clown. Do you even watch the movies you debate? Point is, she disarmed him EASILY and owned him easily. Nothing new for Viktor
Wrong again, he LUCKILY didn't have his lies exposed before his death. That didn't change the fact that it was piss poor planning and strategy on his part to keep him alive to begin with. Just like it wasn't a good idea to keep Selene alive after killing her family. Especially knowing that Selene knew where William's prison was. He's a moron, and makes these simple errors in judgment time after time
So you think he should be given credit for putting a moron in charge who successfully had a plan to kill him and he could do nothing about it? That is buffoonery of the highest order. You put somebody who's incompetent in charge, who you can't tell is loyal to you after hundreds and hundreds of years... and this impresses you? LOL
Originally posted by Star428
Even without his hybrid upgrade Markus would still beat Viktor. Vampires are never more powerful than those who made them unless they get some kind of special upgrade like what Selene did when she drank the blood of the father of all the immortals. With his hybrid upgrade, Markus wins even easier than he otherwise would.Oh, and Selene was only able to kill Viktor because it was a cheap shot. Anyone who thinks she could've beaten Viktor in a straight-up fight before her upgrade is kidding themselves.
It's not cheap to use a sword when somebody else has no weapon? It's not cheap to have your buddies shoot up somebody mid fight? I beg to differ. Viktor started the cheap tactics.. Selene finished it
Originally posted by KuRuPT ThanosiWatch the film again. His intention was quite clear. He was saying, how dare you. He defended himself and was shocked but at no point did he try to kill her. He then ended the fight as soon as he heard of her transgression. You aren't smart enough to understand or comprehend a scene. Shame .
Post ANY narration or monologue from Viktor that says he threw the fight and wasn't trying to kill her. If not, we'll just go ahead and go with what we see on screen... What is that you ask? That was him shown swinging his sword at her with the intent of killing or maiming her. You don't swing you sword at somebody just for kicks you moron. He wasn't trying to lure Lucian back.. HE WAS ALREADY BACK. Viktor had already lured him back to get her which is who they ended up fighting you clown. Do you even watch the movies you debate? Point is, she disarmed him EASILY and owned him easily. Nothing new for ViktorWrong again, he LUCKILY didn't have his lies exposed before his death. That didn't change the fact that it was piss poor planning and strategy on his part to keep him alive to begin with. Just like it wasn't a good idea to keep Selene alive after killing her family. Especially knowing that Selene knew where William's prison was. He's a moron, and makes these simple errors in judgment time after time
So you think he should be given credit for putting a moron in charge who successfully had a plan to kill him and he could do nothing about it? That is buffoonery of the highest order. You put somebody who's incompetent in charge, who you can't tell is loyal to you after hundreds and hundreds of years... and this impresses you? LOL
No, he was not. He took him out of the situation and he was fine. Quit speculating. Deal in facts not your fantasies.
He was betrayed. Vader betrayed Palpatine and killed him too. Betrayal happens. These guys are not all knowing. Viktor stopped his treacherous actions before his plan was carried out. Palpatine did not stop Anakin from killing him despite him torturing his own son in front of him.
🙂
Again, Viktor held Markus in check for over 1,000 years. Can you say ***** ?
Originally posted by Star428
Even without his hybrid upgrade Markus would still beat Viktor. Vampires are never more powerful than those who made them unless they get some kind of special upgrade like what Selene did when she drank the blood of the father of all the immortals. With his hybrid upgrade, Markus wins even easier than he otherwise would.
I agree he should be more powerful then Viktor, but the problem is we have no real feats of him in vampire form. Just like Alexander should of been stronger then them all, and yet we didn't actually see him do anything and we're bound by what we see.
Oh, and Selene was only able to kill Viktor because it was a cheap shot. Anyone who thinks she could've beaten Viktor in a straight-up fight before her upgrade is kidding themselves.
Given the amount Viktor outclassed her by she should of needed more then just a sword in order to even defeat him. They could of at least had her kill him by tricking him into thinking she was loyal to him and then with his back turned she chops his face off. But no..that isn't what happened, he was quite ready to fight her and just kinda..died.
Originally posted by SurturTrue however we can say that it is implied in the movies that Marcus and Alexander are stronger. Marcus did show skill in hand to hand combat when facing Selene. There is no reason to believe that he just learned those skills since he just awoke from sleeping.
I agree he should be more powerful then Viktor, but the problem is we have no real feats of him in vampire form. Just like Alexander should of been stronger then them all, and yet we didn't actually see him do anything and we're bound by what we see.
So we have the fact that Marcus is stronger and he is a skilled fighter. Viktor always used Marcus brother as a way of controlling him. Threating harm to his brother if he didn’t conform to Viktor ways. So there is really nothing to indicate that Viktor had any type of superiority over Marcus.
As for Alexander, here are some quotes that heavily implies that he Alexander had the ability to kill his sons himself if he wanted to. He never denies his ability to do so or state that it is not possible for him to do so:
"You are asking me to help you kill my son? You? A Death Dealer? How many innocents did you kill in your six century quest to avenge your family? Spare me your self-righteous declarations. You are no different than Marcus, and even less noble than William. At least he cannot control his savagery."
"No matter what he's become, he is my son. You are the only hope left. There is only one way to defeat him. Quickly now, before there is no more legacy left in my veins."
Originally posted by quanchi112
Watch the film again. His intention was quite clear. He was saying, how dare you. He defended himself and was shocked but at no point did he try to kill her. He then ended the fight as soon as he heard of her transgression. You aren't smart enough to understand or comprehend a scene. Shame .No, he was not. He took him out of the situation and he was fine. Quit speculating. Deal in facts not your fantasies.
He was betrayed. Vader betrayed Palpatine and killed him too. Betrayal happens. These guys are not all knowing. Viktor stopped his treacherous actions before his plan was carried out. Palpatine did not stop Anakin from killing him despite him torturing his own son in front of him.
🙂
Again, Viktor held Markus in check for over 1,000 years. Can you say ***** ?
Wrong again. So you have no proof then? I'll accept your concession on this point. I don't care if you wanna speculate that eh wasn't trying to kill her and was just pretending to fight. He states no such thing, in fact, his actions directly contradict said theory. The reality is he was swinging his sword at her to kill her or hurt her. Period. You don't swing your sword at people you're trying to lose to. She disarmed him easily and defeated him. You claim he beat her... he did no such thing. he only gained the advantage because she was distracted and looking away at Lucian being captured. Pitiful swordsman ship by him. Then again, that's par for the course with this guy. Lucian beat him in sword combat. Shit, Viktor couldn't even land a sword struck on an unarmed Michael . Pitiful
His secrets and plan ended being exposed by him, so it was an epic failure on his part. If somebody dies but was withholding secrets for a very long time that he was actually a drug dealer. Do you think he'd want that to come out even after he's dead? People don't generally ever want their lies and betrayal exposed. Viktor would be no different. Horrible judgment on his part
He didn't do a think to Kraven... It was the most powerful vampire MarCus who had to deal with him and end him. He had to clean up the mess Viktor couldn't take care of. You act like Viktor foiled his plan. He didn't. He didn't have the slightest clue about the plan. He put somebody in charge that is a buffoon and a traitor and concocted a plan to kill him that was going to work. Luckily, Selene notice Raz trying to capture Michael... started investigating.. figured things out FOR Viktor who was too incompetent to figure it out himself. Viktor didn't do a thing to stop Kraven... if it wasn't for Selene.. he'd be dead with another example of piss poor judgment.
MarCus was only retrained, not by Viktor's being more powerful, but because of all the death dealer loyal to him. That is how he was somewhat able to control the situation. In no way was MarCus scared of Viktor or the least bit concerned about him if they fought. He was concerned that him and ameila and all the death dealers were against him. Plus, as stated in the movie he feared for them killing William so he did as Viktor wanted. All of that is the reason why, NONE of which is because Viktor is more powerful or MarCus thought Viktor could beat him. Nothing in the least like that.
Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Wrong again. So you have no proof then? I'll accept your concession on this point. I don't care if you wanna speculate that eh wasn't trying to kill her and was just pretending to fight. He states no such thing, in fact, his actions directly contradict said theory. The reality is he was swinging his sword at her to kill her or hurt her. Period. You don't swing your sword at people you're trying to lose to. She disarmed him easily and defeated him. You claim he beat her... he did no such thing. he only gained the advantage because she was distracted and looking away at Lucian being captured. Pitiful swordsman ship by him. Then again, that's par for the course with this guy. Lucian beat him in sword combat. Shit, Viktor couldn't even land a sword struck on an unarmed Michael . PitifulHis secrets and plan ended being exposed by him, so it was an epic failure on his part. If somebody dies but was withholding secrets for a very long time that he was actually a drug dealer. Do you think he'd want that to come out even after he's dead? People don't generally ever want their lies and betrayal exposed. Viktor would be no different. Horrible judgment on his part
He didn't do a think to Kraven... It was the most powerful vampire MarCus who had to deal with him and end him. He had to clean up the mess Viktor couldn't take care of. You act like Viktor foiled his plan. He didn't. He didn't have the slightest clue about the plan. He put somebody in charge that is a buffoon and a traitor and concocted a plan to kill him that was going to work. Luckily, Selene notice Raz trying to capture Michael... started investigating.. figured things out FOR Viktor who was too incompetent to figure it out himself. Viktor didn't do a thing to stop Kraven... if it wasn't for Selene.. he'd be dead with another example of piss poor judgment.
MarCus was only retrained, not by Viktor's being more powerful, but because of all the death dealer loyal to him. That is how he was somewhat able to control the situation. In no way was MarCus scared of Viktor or the least bit concerned about him if they fought. He was concerned that him and ameila and all the death dealers were against him. Plus, as stated in the movie he feared for them killing William so he did as Viktor wanted. All of that is the reason why, NONE of which is because Viktor is more powerful or MarCus thought Viktor could beat him. Nothing in the least like that.
No, since he has her dead to rights and still didn't kill her. He himself took a sword through the mouth basically and walked away. Even had he hit her she's a vampire and can survive. He did want to put her to trial afterwards. Quit going against the words and the intention of a father trying to trap his unwelcome boyfriend. Michael is faster and stronger. He still got the better of him with his bare hands so who cares.
It never came to light while he lived. Who cares ?
Kraven fled from Viktor. He knew not to come after him while he went after the hybrid. Markus died not too long after his release either. Who cares ?
So you agree Viktor held him in check due to his cunning and keeping him as his ***** despite exiling and lying to him about his brother. Perfect. While Vikgor loved Markus was always his ***** despite being the father of the race. Rather embrasssing.
Viktor wins.
Originally posted by quanchi112We already established that is your interpretation of the scene. Selene had already intervened because Viktor had use the assistant of his men to shoot at Micheal.
Viktor was about to kill him hence why Selene needed to intervene.
Selene takes out Viktor men, Viktor hits Selene and Selene returns the favor by removing part of Viktor's head and face.
So Selene saw an opportunity to kill Viktor and took it.
Originally posted by Kotor3So you believe Michael was not in harms way and Viktor was simply being foolish saying he'd now kill him ? Oh brother. 😂
We already established that is your interpretation of the scene. Selene had already intervened because Viktor had use the assistant of his men to shoot at Micheal.Selene takes out Viktor men, Viktor hits Selene and Selene returns the favor by removing part of Viktor's head and face.
So Selene saw an opportunity to kill Viktor and took it.
To say she was not protecting her bf in that scene is asinine.
Originally posted by quanchi112He was in a choke hold. Please you act as if Viktor had him pin down ready for a death blow. What Marcus did to Michael was a death blow.
So you believe Michael was not in harms way and Viktor was simply being foolish saying he'd now kill him ? Oh brother. 😂To say she was not protecting her bf in that scene is asinine.
No one cares what prideful Viktor felt. As stated Selene was already in the fight at this point and saw an opportunity and took it.
If Viktor really had Michael at his mercy and wasn't using all of his might and concentration to maintain his choke hold, he would not have been caught off guard like he was and died.
Originally posted by Kotor3He was going to kill him. He had all the leverage and the strength to kill him.
He was in a choke hold. Please you act as if Viktor had him pin down ready for a death blow. What Marcus did to Michael was a death blow.No one cares what prideful Viktor felt. As stated Selene was already in the fight at this point and saw an opportunity and took it.
If Viktor really had Michael at his mercy and wasn't using all of his might and concentration to maintain his choke hold, he would not have been caught off guard like he was and died.
She used the time when his attention was diverted. She took on Markus and straight up defeated him.
False. He used his senses to break free and try to react to the sneak attack. Quit pretending, guy.
Originally posted by quanchi112
No, since he has her dead to rights and still didn't kill her. He himself took a sword through the mouth basically and walked away. Even had he hit her she's a vampire and can survive. He did want to put her to trial afterwards. Quit going against the words and the intention of a father trying to trap his unwelcome boyfriend. Michael is faster and stronger. He still got the better of him with his bare hands so who cares.It never came to light while he lived. Who cares ?
Kraven fled from Viktor. He knew not to come after him while he went after the hybrid. Markus died not too long after his release either. Who cares ?
So you agree Viktor held him in check due to his cunning and keeping him as his ***** despite exiling and lying to him about his brother. Perfect. While Vikgor loved Markus was always his ***** despite being the father of the race. Rather embrasssing.
Viktor wins.
Concession accepted on this point. He was shown striking at her in an attempt to kill her or maim her. He failed. Even if we take your theory at face value (most don't) He was still trying to subdue her and capture her... guess what.. he failed and was disarmed EASILY for his troubles. No matter how you look at it he was treated like a feeb by his own daughter
Doesn't matter if it never came out while he was alive. It was piss poor judgment to even keep him alive. Par for he course for this buffoon.
You're right, the more powerful MarCus had to do something that Viktor himself couldn't do. He had to clean up the mess of the buffoon Viktor caused by putting Kraven in charge. Do you know how crappy it looks for somebody not be able to figure out for HUNDREDS AND HUDTREDS of years that someone they put in control is actually a moron? It's just another example of Viktor's piss poor judgment that we see time and time again.
It wasn't a cheapshot at all. Viktor had already smacked Selene around. He already witness Selene killing death dealers to protect Michael. Another cheap tactic. In any event, he by that point Selene was no longer on his side and chose Michael Yet, like the moron he is, he foolishly didn't account for her properly and easily killed.
Again, Viktor with a sword can't even kill Michael who was unarmed. Pitiful
The reality is, somebody you call cunning, is one of the biggest buffoons in the series
Originally posted by quanchi112Once again your interpretation with no proof. Selene lost to Marcus twice before winning. You are right he used his senses to react but not in enough time since he had to divert all of his strength and concentration to the choke hold.
He was going to kill him. He had all the leverage and the strength to kill him.She used the time when his attention was diverted. She took on Markus and straight up defeated him.
False. He used his senses to break free and try to react to the sneak attack. Quit pretending, guy.
Please tell me how Viktor was going to kill Micheal. He didn't have his sword and as we have already seen in Michael's battle with Marcus a blow to his heart will not kill him.
Just because Viktor had leverage over Markus, in threatening William if he didn't conform (as stated by a previous poster), doesn't mean in a fight he would win. Context as stated previously. I just watched the first two Underworlds again, and Markus was superior. Even with Markus "killing" Michael, I don't/didn't see Viktor's damage output as greater. I also don't see Viktor being able to kill him, especially if Michael doesn't fight like an idiot.