No one person that existed in Vitiate's era, at last. That doesn't really take into account Chosen Ones and their heirs. Luke is the best the Jedi have ever had.
"Is the Dark Side stronger?" "No. But easier it is. More seductive..."
Yoda, whatever else you might say about him, is well aware of the strength of the light vs. the strength of the dark. If he says the dark isn't stronger...then it isn't, by word of Episode 5.
Actually the dark side is stronger, just because yoda says something does it mean it true. Something about this. If he is asked the question of light vs dark, of course he is going to,say light because what side has he been on for 900 years? So yea he is going to say the light, just like any Jedi would. However in all honesty and truth, the dark side is stronger of the two. Why do you think palaptine looks the way he is? It's because of dark side degradation. The dark side is like a drug, it makes you feel good but at a cost to your physical appearance.
Also by showings, the dark side is more powerful. Sidious vs Yoda, dooku, vaapad, the abilities. All of these point to the dark side being superior, also dark is always stronger than light, the light just either gets lucky, or some sudden Burt of energy or assistance helps it.
Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
Vitiate agains gets stomped and isn't this him in his physical form? Stay on topic. He is the we least and can't defeat any of the Jedi so the SITH lose due to having the weak link.
Again, it is asinine to assume that Luke Skywalker and Yoda are virtually immune to external threats and deadly Force powers. They are likely to perish in this contest.
Learn to differentiate between mechanics of storytelling and hypothetical scenarios which are supposed to be fair. As an author, I can make it possible for a weak character to survive in an encounter with a strong character, but this would be PIS for the sake of storytelling to make it interesting for the audience. In real life, the strong may squash the weak like a bug.
Vitiate is not the weak link, he have best showings among the combatants. And him supporting Sidious is simply too much for any Jedi to cope with.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenDBecause Darth Marr has knowledge of Yoda and Luke... 🙄
Vitiate have defeated a Strike Team of some of the strongest Jedi of the Order. He can handle any single Jedi."No one person - not even Revan - can truly destroy the Emperor. He will destroy Revan, then move on to the rest of us. In time, he will consume all life in the galaxy." (Darth Marr)
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenDRelevation: Star Wars is not real. Storytelling scenarios = hypothetical scenarios.
Learn to differentiate between mechanics of storytelling and hypothetical scenarios which are supposed to be fair. As an author, I can make it possible for a weak character to survive in an encounter with a strong character, but this would be PIS for the sake of storytelling to make it interesting for the audience. In real life, the strong may squash the weak like a bug.
Originally posted by EmperorSidious2Lol. The dark side being stronger doesn't make logical sense, because the Force is about balance, balance between light and dark, ying and yang. If the dark side were inherently stronger the Force would be inherently imbalanced and indeed balance would be impossible to achieve.
Actually the dark side is stronger, just because yoda says something does it mean it true. Something about this. If he is asked the question of light vs dark, of course he is going to,say light because what side has he been on for 900 years? So yea he is going to say the light, just like any Jedi would. However in all honesty and truth, the dark side is stronger of the two. Why do you think palaptine looks the way he is? It's because of dark side degradation. The dark side is like a drug, it makes you feel good but at a cost to your physical appearance.Also by showings, the dark side is more powerful. Sidious vs Yoda, dooku, vaapad, the abilities. All of these point to the dark side being superior, also dark is always stronger than light, the light just either gets lucky, or some sudden Burt of energy or assistance helps it.
Case in point: The Son and the Daughter, respective embodiements of the dark and the light, yet neither appear to be more powerful and when they confront one another they appear to stalemate. If what your saying were true the Son would have the inherent advantage.
The "showings" of Sith and Jedi are irrelevant, because none of them actually personify the light or dark side. So some Sith are more powerful than some Jedi, great. The reverse is often true as well. The flashiness of Sith abilities isn't proof of superiority either, the dark side represents destruction, the light side creation. So naturally Sith powers will be more destructive, but that doesn't make the Sith stronger.
Originally posted by Beniboybling
Because Darth Marr has knowledge of Yoda and Luke... 🙄
Revan is strong just like them.
Originally posted by Beniboybling
Relevation: Star Wars is not real. Storytelling scenarios = hypothetical scenarios.
Storytelling is always about arousing interest in audience. This is possible with use of fictional elements to make the story interesting.
Consider the example of WWE. Its fights are mostly staged. Due to this fact, we don't know how the real fights will turn out and who can defeat whom in what amount of time span. Perhaps Big Show may knock out John Cena with a single punch in real life. However, in a WWE fight, situation is different due to storytelling.
Abeloth have wide array of unique abilities unseen in TOR era. Abeloth have overpowered Son and Daughter simultaneously. Light Side and Dark Side combined or Dagger of Mortis are only ways to defeat Abeloth.
Emperor Vitiate have neither of said requirements. Maybe if combined with an elite TOR Light Side Force user, someone at least on level of Count Dooku or Darth Vader - perhaps Kao Cen Darach?
Originally posted by Beniboybling
Lol. The dark side being stronger doesn't make logical sense, because the Force is about balance, balance between light and dark, ying and yang. If the dark side were inherently stronger the Force would be inherently imbalanced and indeed balance would be impossible to achieve.Case in point: The Son and the Daughter, respective embodiements of the dark and the light, yet neither appear to be more powerful and when they confront one another they appear to stalemate. If what your saying were true the Son would have the inherent advantage.
The "showings" of Sith and Jedi are irrelevant, because none of them actually personify the light or dark side. So some Sith are more powerful than some Jedi, great. The reverse is often true as well. The flashiness of Sith abilities isn't proof of superiority either, the dark side represents destruction, the light side creation. So naturally Sith powers will be more destructive, but that doesn't make the Sith stronger.
What was ROTS and 20+ years after and a little while before. The force was out of balance and to which side. The dark side. While I agree that the force Is about balance. I believe I may misinterpret more destructive power of being more powerful. I still stay with the belief the dark side is stronger as it has more abilities at its disposal and the sheer power of it causes degredation. so yes I understand point but the dark side shows more destructive power and more willingness to use it. Also I suggests you listen to this video. https://youtu.be/8jftZUJDvFw. This is his opinion on why he believes the dark side is stronger or not.
So with what your saying wouldn't that make what yoda said dishonest and non valid now,as according to you the force is all about balance not one overpowering the other. So that makes what yoda said his own opinion and not factual proven.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Translation: I (EmperorSidious2) don't have any argument so I am reverting back to my baseless assumptions.Again, it is asinine to assume that Luke Skywalker and Yoda are virtually immune to external threats and deadly Force powers. They are likely to perish in this contest.
Learn to differentiate between mechanics of storytelling and hypothetical scenarios which are supposed to be fair. As an author, I can make it possible for a weak character to survive in an encounter with a strong character, but this would be PIS for the sake of storytelling to make it interesting for the audience. In real life, the strong may squash the weak like a bug.
Vitiate is not the weak link, he have best showings among the combatants. And him supporting Sidious is simply too much for any Jedi to cope with.
How don't I have an argument. Out of three how is he not the weakest. Sidious and Luke are both definitely the top 2. So the weak link would be either vitiate or yoda. Yoda in his prime, we see what he can do outside his prime and it's challenge a ROTS Sidious in the force. In his prime imagine what he can. Vitiate is the weak link if yoda out of his prime can take palpatines lightning then he can definitely take on vitiates lightning. Also get a real argument going please at least make this fun.
Translation. You don't have any real reason to know if it would work against yoda and Luke. These guys are high level, the highest level of the force outside the ONES. Why would drain work, because it's worked on everyone else? Did t he need rituals to do most of that stuff? None of those beings are on the level of yoda or Sidious or Luke. Also wasn't Revan able to eventually snap out of vitiates control. Luke by himself would demolish vitiate. So with that then vitiates in his physical form so none of that he can do all this in a ghost form, he's in physical form.
Exactly that's what vitiate has. Game mechanics. Storytelling and game mechanics. Some of his feats are game mechanics so like you said aren't really that likely to happen in an actual battle. I'm glad you know.
If he isn't the weakest, who is? I'll give you a hint it would be between yoda and vitiate and yoda would come out on top. I doubt it. Anything in the games don't count. I doubt anything vitiate has can top palpatine. He would over yoda as we have never seen yoda in his prime only in ROTS and ESB. Luke, has a title and feats to out due vitiate. With all of this vitiate is the weak link. In terms of who is most powerful it goes like this Luke>Sidious>yoda>vitiate. Vitiate being to far behind makes the SITH victory hard to gain.
Originally posted by Trocity
Abeloth have wide array of unique abilities unseen in TOR era.
Originally posted by Trocity
Abeloth have overpowered Son and Daughter simultaneously.
Originally posted by Trocity
Light Side and Dark Side combined or Dagger of Mortis are only ways to defeat Abeloth. Emperor Vitiate have neither of said requirements.
The Sith and the Jedi forged temporary alliance to stop Revan. So do you think that this is the requirement to defeat Revan?
You need to differentiate story elements from requirements.
Originally posted by Trocity
Maybe if combined with an elite TOR Light Side Force user, someone at least on level of Count Dooku or Darth Vader - perhaps Kao Cen Darach?
Originally posted by EmperorSidious2Key word: out of balance. The dark side being stronger than the light side represents imbalance, its unnatural. The dark and light are naturally equal.
What was ROTS and 20+ years after and a little while before. The force was out of balance and to which side. The dark side. While I agree that the force Is about balance. I believe I may misinterpret more destructive power of being more powerful. I still stay with the belief the dark side is stronger as it has more abilities at its disposal and the sheer power of it causes degredation. so yes I understand point but the dark side shows more destructive power and more willingness to use it. Also I suggests you listen to this video. https://youtu.be/8jftZUJDvFw. This is his opinion on why he believes the dark side is stronger or not.So with what your saying wouldn't that make what yoda said dishonest and non valid now,as according to you the force is all about balance not one overpowering the other.
And yes I believe you are misinterpreting. More effective in battle? Perhaps. But not more powerful. And even in battle, the destructive power of the dark will always meet its match with the defensive and cleansing powers of the light.
Even the most powerful dark side ability in mythos: the Force storm, was thwarted by a light side power, a Wall of Light.
Your also incorrect it assuming is sheer power that causes a Sith's body to decay, its not, its the corruptive aspect of the dark side. Ying and yang, the dark side is corruption and death the light side is the opposite, purity and life - and indeed where the dark side corrupts a Sith, powerful Jedi are often blessed with youth and longevity.
And I have plans to watch that video, but I expect I'll disagree.
So that makes what yoda said his own opinion and not factual proven.Not really. Lets look at what is actually said:
Luke: Is the dark side stronger?
Yoda: No, no, no. Quicker, easier, more seductive.
All Yoda says is the dark side is not stronger, he never says it is weaker. And he is correct, it is the quicker path to power, but that doesn't make it weaker, just easier to aquire. That said the Jedi are not the authority on the subject, they may believe that light side is stronger and there is a suggestion that they do. But that interpretation would be wrong, and Lucas has himself implied that the Jedi interpretation of the Force is incorrect.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenDNope but they can overcome them.
Are Luke Skywalker and Yoda immune to external threats? Are they? 🙄Revan is strong just like them.
Revan isn't as strong as Yoda or Luke.
Thanks for reminding me that Star Wars is fiction when their was no such need. My point however flew above your head.Other way around I'm afraid, your next getting that this is a fictional universe and this is a fictional debate, out of universe things like PIS therefore not relevant, what happened happened. Those are the facts of this fictional universe. Your attempts to say what would "really" happen is just baseless assumptions.
Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
How don't I have an argument. Out of three how is he not the weakest. Sidious and Luke are both definitely the top 2. So the weak link would be either vitiate or yoda. Yoda in his prime, we see what he can do outside his prime and it's challenge a ROTS Sidious in the force. In his prime imagine what he can. Vitiate is the weak link if yoda out of his prime can take palpatines lightning then he can definitely take on vitiates lightning. Also get a real argument going please at least make this fun.
It makes no sense to use revelations of outdated sources to dictate rankings. If Vitiate had been shown to be inferior to the other participants, then your position would have weightage and we won't be having this argument.
Vitiate can devastate entire worlds and atomize living beings. Other participants do not match these showings with exception of Palpatine (DE). Though Vitiate fights differently then Palpatine. Luke Skywalker might be able to take on Palpatine in a duel [1 on 1] but Vitiate can use his powers to disorient both Jedi and also drain them. Due to such pressures, the Jedi are unlikely to function in effective manner and are likely to perish. Nothing in my assertion is far-fetched and impossible to believe.
Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
Translation. You don't have any real reason to know if it would work against yoda and Luke. These guys are high level, the highest level of the force outside the ONES. Why would drain work, because it's worked on everyone else? Did t he need rituals to do most of that stuff? None of those beings are on the level of yoda or Sidious or Luke. Also wasn't Revan able to eventually snap out of vitiates control. Luke by himself would demolish vitiate. So with that then vitiates in his physical form so none of that he can do all this in a ghost form, he's in physical form.
In addition, it is stated that Vitiate's telepathic powers can influence even the strongest of the Jedi. Is this too difficult for you to comprehend?
No, Vitiate doesn't needs rituals to perform his actions. He performed rituals to increase his understanding of the Dark Side, nothing else. Once he mastered a technique, their was no need for a ritual to perform it.
Revan was able to snap out of Vitiate's control due to actions of the Jedi High Council of his era. They erased his mind and this broke Vitiate's hold over Revan for good. Revan did try to suppress Vitiate's hold over him on his own but he was only able to lessen the influence and not break it fully, and this development took some time. So its not like that Luke Skywalker and Yoda can just shrug off Vitiate's telepathic powers. Even Lord Nyax was able to dominate Luke with his telepathic powers.
That is an assumption. Vitiate can do anything in his corporeal form.
Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
Exactly that's what vitiate has. Game mechanics. Storytelling and game mechanics. Some of his feats are game mechanics so like you said aren't really that likely to happen in an actual battle. I'm glad you know.
Check this blog: http://www.comicvine.com/profile/s_w_legend/blog/emperor-vitiate-respect-thread/97466/
Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
If he isn't the weakest, who is? I'll give you a hint it would be between yoda and vitiate and yoda would come out on top. I doubt it. Anything in the games don't count. I doubt anything vitiate has can top palpatine. He would over yoda as we have never seen yoda in his prime only in ROTS and ESB. Luke, has a title and feats to out due vitiate. With all of this vitiate is the weak link. In terms of who is most powerful it goes like this Luke>Sidious>yoda>vitiate. Vitiate being to far behind makes the SITH victory hard to gain.
Vitiate is likely the strongest Force-user in this contest in fairness. Yoda is the weakest link in this contest.
Vitiate have superior showings then Palpatine. The latter only competes with command of the Force Storms (DE incarnation being considered).
We the see the best of Yoda in the PT era. His physical prime may make some difference but it won't be enormous.
Originally posted by Beniboybling
Nope but they can overcome them.
Originally posted by Beniboybling
Revan isn't as strong as Yoda or Luke.
Revan is certainly comparable to Yoda and Luke Skywalker in accomplishments and hype.
Originally posted by Beniboybling
Other way around I'm afraid, your next getting that this is a fictional universe and this is a fictional debate, out of universe things like PIS therefore not relevant, what happened happened. Those are the facts of this fictional universe. Your attempts to say what would "really" happen is just baseless assumptions.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenDTank =/= overcome. But it does equal a win.
They cannot just tank every Force power. They have limits.
Revan is regarded as the Jedi Order's most powerful champion, stronger then any individual whom Meetra Surik have met in life, acquired the capability to perform oneness attacks at will by calling upon both the Light and Dark sides of the Force simultaneously, defeated scores of Sith and Mandalorians in battles, easily defeated a Dark Council member who defeated Lord Scourge and Meetra Surik simultaneously in a battle, cheated death, proved to be a challenge for some of the greatest Strike Teams ever assembled in battles, and motivated Vitiate to switch to Voices.Blah blah blah. Try actually making a comparison, you've failed to engage with Luke or Yoda's feats at all.Revan is certainly comparable to Yoda and Luke Skywalker in accomplishments and hype.
I disagree. Thank you.No doubt because PIS is central to many of your arguments for Vitiate.
Originally posted by Beniboybling
Tank =/= overcome. But it does equal a win.
That Luke Skywalker and Yoda will be not effected by Force powers of Vitiate?
Originally posted by Beniboybling
Blah blah blah. Try actually making a comparison, you've failed to engage with Luke or Yoda's feats at all.
Originally posted by Beniboybling
No doubt because PIS is central to many of your arguments for Vitiate.
Originally posted by Beniboybling
Key word: out of balance. The dark side being stronger than the light side represents imbalance, its unnatural. The dark and light are naturally equal.And yes I believe you are misinterpreting. More effective in battle? Perhaps. But not more powerful. And even in battle, the destructive power of the dark will always meet its match with the defensive and cleansing powers of the light.
Even the most powerful dark side ability in mythos: the Force storm, was thwarted by a light side power, a Wall of Light.
Your also incorrect it assuming is sheer power that causes a Sith's body to decay, its not, its the corruptive aspect of the dark side. Ying and yang, the dark side is corruption and death the light side is the opposite, purity and life - and indeed where the dark side corrupts a Sith, powerful Jedi are often blessed with youth and longevity.
And I have plans to watch that video, but I expect I'll disagree. Not really. Lets look at what is actually said:
Luke: Is the dark side stronger?
Yoda: No, no, no. Quicker, easier, more seductive.
All Yoda says is the dark side is not stronger, he never says it is weaker. And he is correct, it is the quicker path to power, but that doesn't make it weaker, just easier to aquire. That said the Jedi are not the authority on the subject, they may believe that light side is stronger and there is a suggestion that they do. But that interpretation would be wrong, and Lucas has himself implied that the Jedi interpretation of the Force is incorrect.
Ok I can agree with that.
Yea I most likely am misinterpreting.