Originally posted by Sinious
I think you should stick to "It was a stalemate!" stance. You're not gonna win this if if you're actually trying to argue that Yoda was winning that fight.But sure, I'll respond when I'm back in my chateau.
You're not really in position to critique other people's arguments, even if it is captain persistence.
Originally posted by Angelalex242
Oh, I dunno. Prime Yoda may actually be equal to ROTJ Sidious. The increase in power for being 200 years younger may be equal to what Sidious learned over 23 years of being Emperor.
Still, Prime!Yoda is more powerful than his RotS self and that's enough fot me to give him an edge over RotS Sidious.
Originally posted by The_Tempest
Beefy, Sin is a stalwart Vitiate supporter. He's like your brother in arms. Don't bite the hand that feeds you.
Vitiate's fanclub is a really weird environment tbh. At one side I have a dude who legitimately claims Vitiate > Ones and on the other side there is this guy. The latter is worse tbh. 😬
Originally posted by The_Tempest
Beefy, Sin is a stalwart Vitiate supporter. He's like your brother in arms. Don't bite the hand that feeds you.
I don't care. A buffoon is a buffoon regardless of who he supports. Criticizing other people's arguments just by saying the equivalent of "nope", doesn't work.
The reality is this...
Sids tried to RUN from Yoda. If he was so powerful as Yoda points out... why run? You wouldn't.
The power of Sids lighting briefly catches Yoda by surprise and he's stunned. He then counters and Sends Sids flying. Essentially a force stalemate at that point. Sid then tries to run
Then in DIRECT saber combat used DISARMS him. There can be no mistake that Yoda proved to be his superior in sabers. So all this talk about Sids being superior is literally laughable. Yoda disarmed him, which means yoda takes the sabers department.
Then later Yoda overpowers the gravity and TK of Sids throwing a pod at him and throws it back at Sids which Sids is unable to counter.
Then as the script notes which is 100% G canon and exponentially more canon than Guides... Lucas notes.. the emperor appears doomed. Yoda buckled down and started to overpower sids lighting. This is CLEARLY seen when Yoda has the I'm getting serious look and Sids has the oh shit I'm about to get stomped look.
The reality is that we can call it a stalemate, but in no way shape or form did Sids come out superior in that fight. If anything Yoda came off as slightly superior.
BTW... Lebron handled Leonard just fine. Leonard wasn't able to stop Bron really at any point. Leonard had the better team.. he didn't out play LeBron
[QUOTE=15238856]Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
[B]The reality is this...
Sids tried to RUN from Yoda. If he was so powerful as Yoda points out... why run? You wouldn't.
The power of Sids lighting briefly catches Yoda by surprise and he's stunned. He then counters and Sends Sids flying. Essentially a force stalemate at that point. Sid then tries to run
Then in DIRECT saber combat used DISARMS him. There can be no mistake that Yoda proved to be his superior in sabers. So all this talk about Sids being superior is literally laughable. Yoda disarmed him, which means yoda takes the sabers department.
Then later Yoda overpowers the gravity and TK of Sids throwing a pod at him and throws it back at Sids which Sids is unable to counter.
Then as the script notes which is 100% G canon and exponentially more canon than Guides... Lucas notes.. the emperor appears doomed. Yoda buckled down and started to overpower sids lighting. This is CLEARLY seen when Yoda has the I'm getting serious look and Sids has the oh shit I'm about to get stomped look.
The reality is that we can call it a stalemate, but in no way shape or form did Sids come out superior in that fight. If anything Yoda came off as slightly superior.
I agree except with a few things. What you do before doesn't matter when faced with what actually happened. Yes he attempted to run, however he faced yoda and was actually prepared to strike first and as we see Sidious seemed to be slightly better yoda when they were on even footing, of course this is just my interpretation. When they were on the senate pod anything form their is pretty based off of the terrain. Sidious had to stay stationary and couldn't have the movements he normally employed while Yoda could just leap about as he pleased. Also as per the movies he want disarmed it took a show to anakin duel with obi wan. The script says he pushed him to the edge and the SITH lord dropped his saber it didn't say he was disarmed. Even if he was truly disarmed the terrain they were in played against Sidious so there is no way to tell which of the two is better lighstaber duelist as while they were on even footing palpatine had yoda on the defense but when they were on a terrain agaisn't Sidious, he still was able to hold yoda off. So I would say they were a stalemate but it all depends on how you see things.
I agree it would be a stalemate as both had ample opportunity to put a force sheild or use tutaminis or anything.
On a terrain where it was against Sidious. Both are skilled duelist, however we have seen different terrains in which Sidious fights and then his height and mass caused the confine space of the chancellors podium to cause the movements he could have had very limited and couldn't use his force speed in a manner that would help him only to go around and fend off yoda. Even with a terrain based on the movie we never see yoda disarm him, we never see yoda overpower him evn when he had the advantage. So I can see Sidious being the better duelist but I'm not against yoda being better.
Your interpretation is 95% correct. Actually that was clearly a stalemate in the lightning battle as before all of that yoda was being overpowered then like you said he got confident/serious and then the force ball of lightning stayed in the middle, that's why both were flung away. So with that I can see both being a stalemate. As for the TK pod battle Sidious was throwing pods and then yoda caught the last one. Sidious was clearly being overconfident and then whe apparently got to close to him he apparently couldn't spare the time to grab it or push it back so he had to dodge.
So with that I understand everything you say but no yoda didn't come out looking more superior, who was the one who ran in the end. Who was the one went to exile. Yoda. If anything Sidious would be the more powerful but by the hairs of his chin. The two I would say are just like Dooku and windu, perfect stalemates. If there is one that's superior in one category it would be Dooku/Sidious in the force windu/yoda sabers. However I would say they are equals.
Originally posted by The_Tempest
Under the old system, yeah. But not now.
Sorry Bud, I know you're a smart guy and very versed in this medium we both love. We know who the creator is and had the ultimate say in this universe. It's Lucas. Please don't be disingenuous and believe his opinion is no longer the authority on movies HE made. Sure, if you wanna say now Disney is in charge and anything moving forward they have the ultimate say in canon (don't fully agree but can see the argument). However, stuff they had nothing to do with and just bought the rights to.. to try and say their view is more canon than the creator of the entire universe and the movies we're discussing... not a chance and you know it. Movies >>>>>> Guides. It's that simple. Sids didn't beat Yoda nor did he get the better of the fight.
Originally posted by Branlor Swift
I usually keep them shorter when I have my phone. In any case I'll switch to my laptop in a reply.But anyway Yoda vs Palpatine is basically Frieza vs Goku. One simply has more stamina. But that doesn't mean there's a power difference before hand is what I'm saying.
And I disagree heavily with "battle was too much" and "bested" being indicators to decide Sidious was more powerful when we were shown everything but that. Just another prematurely ended duel. You either have to go with EU feats and ignore the duel or try and mish mash them in a way that says Sidious was holding back, to get Sidious being noticably above. Imo
To sum it up.
Onto this battle. This depends entirely whether or not Luke can beat Vitiate if Yoda fights Sidious (perpetual stalemate for quite a while). Or if we place Luke vs Sidious and Yoda vs Vitiate.
It's not really decided by a team format unless they switch off in duels. Someone needs to come out on top to help the other.
I never said one side was clearly better or not. I said Sidious had the upper hand in the end. He pushed Yoda to his limits. It can fairly be interpreted as one side's superiority though I would respect other opinions as well as long as they're not claiming Yoda's superiority.