Anakin Skywalker (ROTS) vs Darth Maul

Originally posted by Darth Thor
What?

The stunt coordinator's opinion > Quanchi's opinion on how the characters Saber skills stack up to each other. Rankings which were discussed with Lucas btw. I suppose Lucas can't override Quanchi's "facts" either?

Which the stunt coordinator clearly explains. Anakin is on a higher level to Kenobi as a swordsman. But when fighting each other they're equals because they've sparred so often and know each other's moves inside out.

You really don't seem to have a clue what you're talking about.

You want the facts according to Kenobi and Sheev himself?

Then Yoda is the most powerful and best combatant out of all the Jedi:

TPM- Kenobi is shocked how Skywalker has greater potential than even Yoda - Not Windu.
AOTC- Kenobi talks about how Anakin has the potential to Rival Master Yoda as a Swordsman - Again no mention of Windu.
AOTC- Sheev tells Anakin he's becoming the most powerful of all the Jedi, Even More Powerful than Master Yoda. Again Windu isn't worth mentioning.
ROTS- Palpatine getting into a fight with Yoda claims Skywalker will become more Powerful than either of them. Again he doesn't say "Will become a better fighter than even Master Windu was" LOL.

In all out fair 1 v 1 combat- Windu is no.3 after Yoda and Sidious. Deal with it.

And though Anakin and Dooku wouldn't stand a chance against Yoda or Sidious, either would have a decent shot at stalemating Windu. Skywalker would actually have a decent shot at defeating him.

Nah he's got a decent shot, when as you said yourself, he was more powerful than Dooku. And the stunt coordinator confirms he was a rival to Windu as a swordsman.

You really have a hard concept at separating the fight down to it's different skill sets of Saber, Force and All out.

Anakin (at his best) may rival Windu or Sheev as a swordsman. But he wouldn't stand a chance against Sheev because Sheev would TK stomp him as easily as he did to Maul.

Windu on the other hand.. Skywalker would have a pretty decent shot against him.

So familiarity means that Kenobi can match his skill. Lol. Maul is familiar with Palpatine but that doesn't mean he can best him. Get serious. Facts matter. Kenobi's defensive style won him the day. Anakin was reckless like he was in aotc against Dooku.

I never said WinduwS more powerful than Yoda. I said Windu is a better swordsman. Why mention Windu while talking about Yoda ?

He directly says in rots he WILL BECOME not has become more powerful. Windu was dead at that point and I never said Windu was more powerful than Yoda or Sheev. More powerful doesn't equate to more formidable you nitwit.

Windu bested Sheev on screen. Yoda didn't. Deal with it. Windu never lost a fir fight against anyone. Deal with it.

Nonsense.

That is just his opinion. Windu has never lost. Anakin has lost plenty of times against vastly inferior opponents than Windu.

Sheev wouldn't tk stomp Anakin. He'd best him all out but he can't tk him whenever he wants. You're absurd.

Says you but the facts laugh at cha. Kenobi defeated Anakin. Who best Windu straight up ? Nobody, you dunce.

this has gone around and around so many times so I hate to bring this up YET AGAIN but Sidious threw the fight against Mace, its right there on screen; its not coincidence that he lost his Lightsaber and was laid out just as Anakin walked into the room, he was playing the victim so he could cause a right now decision to be made in Anakins alleigance to either Sidious or the Jedi. Look at how Palpatine plays possum as a helpless old man when Windu wanted to kill him, glancing over at Anakin to see what he was going to do, then once Anakin made his choice he magically popped up to take Windu out?? Right there in front of your eyes is the proof that Sidious took a dive in order to turn Anakin into Vader.

Sorry bud... the facts aren't on ur side. The script... the commentary ... the book ALL UNEQUIVOCALLY back up mace beating sids... it's really that simple. No amount of sids apologist can change that.

Again there really is no official answer for that question. There are plenty of moments where Sidious let mace live and many other instances in which show Sidious throwing the fight.

The script and commentary don't give any official answer just a description of the scene without taking into account anything else just that one particular moment.

The book I believe states they were pure equals and shatter point only worked because he tuned in on Sidious fears however Sidious later states that the fears weren't his. Also doesn't windu state that if the location had been different the fight would have gone on forever? So facts really are on both sides and some facts are taken out of proportion.

Originally posted by quanchi112
If he can't win then he isn't on their level.

He didn't. Sheev was a moron because Anakin turned. 😂

Post some proof for a change. You're incapable because you're a bad debater.

Not necessarily. That's where experience and knowledge comes in. The stunt coordinator has specifically stated that Anakin is a 9 and yoda is a 9 and Sidious is a 9. They are all 9s.

Originally posted by quanchi112
If he can't win then he isn't on their level.

He didn't. Sheev was a moron because Anakin turned. 😂

Post some proof for a change. You're incapable because you're a bad debater.

Not necessarily. That's where experience and knowledge come into play.

He actually did for like the entire time vader and he were fighting after vader threatened Leia.

Maul lost the lower half of his body. That's it. Vader lost all his hands and arms. He lost his force potential. He got burned to the bone. He had to stay in a cybernetic suit for the rest of his life just to live. Maul just needed some legs and that's it. So with that vader had worse injuries. I've posted plenty of proof. You're just stupid. Also didn't I tell you in the guide to alien species it's where benefits and disadvantages of that species are found. Also do some research on zabraks.

Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
Again there really is no official answer for that question. There are plenty of moments where Sidious let mace live and many other instances in which show Sidious throwing the fight.

The script and commentary don't give any official answer just a description of the scene without taking into account anything else just that one particular moment.

The book I believe states they were pure equals and shatter point only worked because he tuned in on Sidious fears however Sidious later states that the fears weren't his. Also doesn't windu state that if the location had been different the fight would have gone on forever? So facts really are on both sides and some facts are taken out of proportion.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
the reality is this... most of ur proof is ur conjecture. Which as we know isn't proof. No they describe what we see and clearly see.... Mace BEAT sids. They use the words... overpower him... overcome him... they even specifically and without ambiguity say how.... breaking the window... slowing down hia speed boost etc etc. It's all very VERY clear. The only people who think otherwise are people who can't accept he lost. Well.... he did

Well really this is more of an opinion thing as of now as there is no answer. Most of the proof is conjecture? Again those words would mean nothing as they fall into the line of throwing the fight so day wouldn't influence this debate. Yes he describes what we see but he doesn't pull in any outside information. Just those two sentences and they don't bring in anything else. However look at timing, placement/positioning, circumstance, opportunity and many other factors.

Timing- Aankin comes in right as he gets kicked

Placement/positioning- Sidious is looking like a victim looking all weak when Lucas says he isn't.

Circumstances- Sidious has already tested Anakin by using dooku in the beginning of the fight. Sidious knows the Jedi are coming. Sidious knows about Padme and anakins struggle. Sidious has shown himself to be the father figure(one of them) and all of a sudden makes him choose him or windu. He takes out tinn and kolar instead of windu. Windu had to sink into vaapd first he could have killed windu early on knowing he would be the most dangerous. He tells Anakin about plaguies and how his ability could save Padme and telling you can't learn it from a Jedi only his apprentice, then goes on to tell him he is the apprentice. Anakin doesn't kill Sidious during that time when he has the chance, that would translate to Sidious knowing he would save him next time. He and plenty of time to formulate said plan with the time from when Aankin leaves to the moment the Jedi get there. Sidious has two sabers on him at that time so he could really have pulled out that second saber and kept the fight going.

Opportunity- Sidious has spent 13 years around these Jedi so he would know wide u is second only to yoda, so why would he go for kolar and tinn first and not windu? In another portion of the battle he has windu at swordpok to and doesn't go in for the kill. He also passes up force power moves as we know Sidious can break through maces force shield.

So really this scen goes by the not everything is as it seems or this is not just black and white. This is a complex situation where many different factors must be taken into account. So let me ask you a question if you disarm someone does that automatically mean they won. We don't know the factors behind that. Maybe the person was tired and just wanted to get the fig over with or wanted to help the person look better in front of a spectator or they wanted to accomplish a goal, or so many other factors.

Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
Not necessarily. That's where experience and knowledge comes in. The stunt coordinator has specifically stated that Anakin is a 9 and yoda is a 9 and Sidious is a 9. They are all 9s.

Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
Not necessarily. That's where experience and knowledge come into play.

He actually did for like the entire time vader and he were fighting after vader threatened Leia.

Maul lost the lower half of his body. That's it. Vader lost all his hands and arms. He lost his force potential. He got burned to the bone. He had to stay in a cybernetic suit for the rest of his life just to live. Maul just needed some legs and that's it. So with that vader had worse injuries. I've posted plenty of proof. You're just stupid. Also didn't I tell you in the guide to alien species it's where benefits and disadvantages of that species are found. Also do some research on zabraks.

Luke didn't turn so Sheev was wrong. He was an idiot because Vader turned and killed his dumb ass. 😂

No, he didn't. You're a liar. Cut in half and came back himself. You just made another baseless claim because you're an idiot. 😂

Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
Well really this is more of an opinion thing as of now as there is no answer. Most of the proof is conjecture? Again those words would mean nothing as they fall into the line of throwing the fight so day wouldn't influence this debate. Yes he describes what we see but he doesn't pull in any outside information. Just those two sentences and they don't bring in anything else. However look at timing, placement/positioning, circumstance, opportunity and many other factors.

Timing- Aankin comes in right as he gets kicked

Placement/positioning- Sidious is looking like a victim looking all weak when Lucas says he isn't.

Circumstances- Sidious has already tested Anakin by using dooku in the beginning of the fight. Sidious knows the Jedi are coming. Sidious knows about Padme and anakins struggle. Sidious has shown himself to be the father figure(one of them) and all of a sudden makes him choose him or windu. He takes out tinn and kolar instead of windu. Windu had to sink into vaapd first he could have killed windu early on knowing he would be the most dangerous. He tells Anakin about plaguies and how his ability could save Padme and telling you can't learn it from a Jedi only his apprentice, then goes on to tell him he is the apprentice. Anakin doesn't kill Sidious during that time when he has the chance, that would translate to Sidious knowing he would save him next time. He and plenty of time to formulate said plan with the time from when Aankin leaves to the moment the Jedi get there. Sidious has two sabers on him at that time so he could really have pulled out that second saber and kept the fight going.

Opportunity- Sidious has spent 13 years around these Jedi so he would know wide u is second only to yoda, so why would he go for kolar and tinn first and not windu? In another portion of the battle he has windu at swordpok to and doesn't go in for the kill. He also passes up force power moves as we know Sidious can break through maces force shield.

So really this scen goes by the not everything is as it seems or this is not just black and white. This is a complex situation where many different factors must be taken into account. So let me ask you a question if you disarm someone does that automatically mean they won. We don't know the factors behind that. Maybe the person was tired and just wanted to get the fig over with or wanted to help the person look better in front of a spectator or they wanted to accomplish a goal, or so many other factors.

No... AGAIN... they were VERY clear. They mention in no uncertain terms... mace figured out he could beat by slowing him down... he then broke the window to let the rain in n become slippery. It was LITERALLY spelled out in black and white. Then when you add in Lucas commentary it's the nail in the coffin. He specifically says overcome... overpower him. There's no ambiguity. Mace beat him.

U keep relying on the worst kind of proof... absence of proof isn't proof. Think about it... why was it never EVER mentioned in the script... novel... movie... commentary .... ANY PLACE... that sids threw the fight? Why not say that? If they felt that way... why not say so? There were plenty on mediums to do so and they CHOSE to not mention a damn thing. That speaks volumes about their views and thoughts.

In conclusion, stop trying to pass ur proof of as anything other than u being a sids apologist. He lost.. plain n simple. Done. It all is right there. If they felt otherwise they would've said so on plenty of occasions. Just stop... please stop

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
I would agree that Yoda is No. 1 overall. However, and we've discussed this before, styles make fights my friend. You know as well as I do, that Mace beat Sidious and Yoda did not. While I believe Yoda would've won eventually, he still didn't, while Mace did. So let's be clear that Mace could beat people that Yoda might not be able to thanks to Vaapad

Nah.

It's not as simple as that. If they fought in the exact same environment, and began the fight in the exact same way, then you'd be right.

But their fights took place completely differently.

Mace is not the superior threat to Sidious. Yoda is. That's why the novel specifically points out that Yoda is the greatest threat the darkness has ever known. Not Mace.

That's why everyone working on the making of ROTS knew that Mace was No.2 to Yoda. That's why Kenobi and Palpatine both know it and say it as well.

No where is Mace stated as being superior to Yoda in any way whatsoever. Not even against Powerful Dark Siders. Vapaad helps, but not to the extent where it makes him a greater threat than Yoda.

Originally posted by quanchi112
He is welcome to his opinion just as I am. I am arguing based off facts. Lucas himself considers Windu in the upper echelon. Your refusal to accept this is making me feel pity for you, fanboy.

Nah you're purposefully ignoring the facts, because you're butt hurt as usual LOL.

Originally posted by quanchi112
So familiarity means that Kenobi can match his skill. Lol.

That's according to the stunt coordinator and the ROTS Novel. The novel which Lucas screened himself.

Do you ever get used to being wrong LOL.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Maul is familiar with Palpatine but that doesn't mean he can best him.

Well it won't help when one of them can ragdoll you with TK LOL.

Besides Maul and Sheev didn't spend Thousands of Hours sparring each other. Skywalker and Kenobi did.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Get serious. Facts matter.

So why are you ignoring what Lucas and Nick Gillard agreed to LOL.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Kenobi's defensive style won him the day. Anakin was reckless like he was in aotc against Dooku. .

Kenobi and Skywalker fought as equals because they knew each others moves inside out. But Kenobi was better suited to exploiting Skywalker's weaknesses and mind state having been the one who taught him.

Originally posted by quanchi112
I never said WinduwS more powerful than Yoda. I said Windu is a better swordsman.

And you're wrong. Kenobi specifically mentions in AOTC that Yoda is the best swordsman. Those are the True and Real Facts LOL

Originally posted by quanchi112
Why mention Windu while talking about Yoda ?

He wasn't talking about Yoda. He was talking about Anakin and Just How Powerful he could become. As in more Powerful than Sheev and Yoda, the 2 Most Powerful Force users and combatants.

Originally posted by quanchi112
He directly says in rots he WILL BECOME not has become more powerful. Windu was dead at that point and I never said Windu was more powerful than Yoda or Sheev. More powerful doesn't equate to more formidable you nitwit.

LOL What does it matter that Windu was dead, when he was talking about just How Powerful Anakin could become. Not to mention these were the kind of quotes given throughout the PT, not just at the end of ROTS once Windu was dead.

Yeah I'm sure when Sidious is getting into a Sword fight and talking about Power, that he meant how Powerful Anakin's Visions would be 😂

Try using some common sense.

😂

Originally posted by quanchi112
Windu bested Sheev on screen. Yoda didn't. Deal with it. Windu never lost a fir fight against anyone. Deal with it.

LOL. Windu began the fight help, ended the fight with Sheev feigning weakness, and didn't have to deal with Sheev's full Force Power in the senate room. Try a bit of context and less fanboyism.

Originally posted by quanchi112
That is just his opinion.

Nah it's the factual power levels as implemented by the stunt coordinator according to what Lucas wanted.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Windu has never lost.

He lost against Maul and 2 Mandos. Sheev would rip through them.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Anakin has lost plenty of times against vastly inferior opponents than Windu.

Like who? Anakin doesn't lose very often.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Sheev wouldn't tk stomp Anakin. He'd best him all out but he can't tk him whenever he wants. You're absurd.

Of course he can. Did you not see what he did to Maul & Opress combined. And then Maul on his own LOL

Originally posted by quanchi112
Says you but the facts laugh at cha. Kenobi defeated Anakin. Who best Windu straight up ? Nobody, you dunce.

Well we never saw Windu fight his own master & teacher did we Fanboy?

Originally posted by quanchi112
You responded twice to my post. 😂

Luke didn't turn so Sheev was wrong. He was an idiot because Vader turned and killed his dumb ass. 😂

No, he didn't. You're a liar. Cut in half and came back himself. You just made another baseless claim because you're an idiot. 😂

I know I had an Internet issue.

He turned for a brief period of time. Well he was smart enough to manipulate an entire Jedi council, dooku, the rebel alliance, the genosisian leaders, and a lot of other things.

So losing half your body is the same to losing your arms and legs and the incredible potential to become the most powerful being the universe has ever known, suffering burns to the bone, and needing a suit to carry out the rest of that life in your eyes. You are a fanboy for maul. Did you not see Revenge of the sith. He all his organic arms and legs and he still survived.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Conjecture. Sheev lost and Lucas said so. 😂

Conjecture according to you a biased ignoramus. 😱 😂

Originally posted by quanchi112
Who cares ? Kenobi beat him. Was he a 9 ? Facts matter not some stunt assholes opinion. 😂

Keno I beat him due to a tactical advantage. Anakin was a 9. Facts do matter that's why Anakin being a nine shows he can compete with Sidious and yoda. The stunt man worked with the lightsaber said and discussed it with the creator than put it in a commentary. So really fact more than opinion.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
No... AGAIN... they were VERY clear. They mention in no uncertain terms... mace figured out he could beat by slowing him down... he then broke the window to let the rain in n become slippery. It was LITERALLY spelled out in black and white. Then when you add in Lucas commentary it's the nail in the coffin. He specifically says overcome... overpower him. There's no ambiguity. Mace beat him.

U keep relying on the worst kind of proof... absence of proof isn't proof. Think about it... why was it never EVER mentioned in the script... novel... movie... commentary .... ANY PLACE... that sids threw the fight? Why not say that? If they felt that way... why not say so? There were plenty on mediums to do so and they CHOSE to not mention a damn thing. That speaks volumes about their views and thoughts.

In conclusion, stop trying to pass ur proof of as anything other than u being a sids apologist. He lost.. plain n simple. Done. It all is right there. If they felt otherwise they would've said so on plenty of occasions. Just stop... please stop

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Nah you're purposefully ignoring the facts, because you're butt hurt as usual LOL.

That's according to the stunt coordinator and the ROTS Novel. The novel which Lucas screened himself.

Do you ever get used to being wrong LOL.

Well it won't help when one of them can ragdoll you with TK LOL.

Besides Maul and Sheev didn't spend Thousands of Hours sparring each other. Skywalker and Kenobi did.

So why are you ignoring what Lucas and Nick Gillard agreed to LOL.

Kenobi and Skywalker fought as equals because they knew each others moves inside out. But Kenobi was better suited to exploiting Skywalker's weaknesses and mind state having been the one who taught him.

And you're wrong. Kenobi specifically mentions in AOTC that Yoda is the best swordsman. Those are the True and Real Facts LOL

He wasn't talking about Yoda. He was talking about Anakin and Just How Powerful he could become. As in more Powerful than Sheev and Yoda, the 2 Most Powerful Force users and combatants.

LOL What does it matter that Windu was dead, when he was talking about just How Powerful Anakin could become. Not to mention these were the kind of quotes given throughout the PT, not just at the end of ROTS once Windu was dead.

Yeah I'm sure when Sidious is getting into a Sword fight and talking about Power, that he meant how Powerful Anakin's Visions would be 😂

Try using some common sense.

😂

LOL. Windu began the fight help, ended the fight with Sheev feigning weakness, and didn't have to deal with Sheev's full Force Power in the senate room. Try a bit of context and less fanboyism.

Nah it's the factual power levels as implemented by the stunt coordinator according to what Lucas wanted.

He lost against Maul and 2 Mandos. Sheev would rip through them.

Like who? Anakin doesn't lose very often.

Of course he can. Did you not see what he did to Maul & Opress combined. And then Maul on his own LOL

Well we never saw Windu fight his own master & teacher did we Fanboy?

Kenobi can't shoot up with skill no matter how much familiarity he has. Anakin had the advantage because his skill level is higher and he is just as familiar with Kenobi.

It is about the timing. Maul beat Kenobi with force push but that doesn't mean he can push him all over the place. Same goes for Sheev. He had him at his mercy when Maulwas weapon less.

They were familiar as are master and apprentice so please quit ignoring the same dynamic.

Those are opinions not facts.

Kenobi pleaded with him because he didn't want him to jump. He actually said for him not to jump. Anakin is an idiot.

I disagree. Windu is better based off their fights on screen.

Windu was dead so why reference a dead man's power ? You're an idiot.

It was in reference to those two because they were there. Why refer to a dead guy I never claimed was the most powerful anyways ?

Anakin never reached his potential anyways which is relevant to his current power state in the film.

Yoda allowed him in the senate room. He was already temp kod prior to this. Windu redirected the power back unlike Yoda who was disarmed. Quit with the excuses. Windu overcame him as per Lucas words.

That's his opinion on skill level not what would actually occur. Key word is opinion.

Sheev lost to Windu. Abc logic isn't necessary.

Dooku, Luke, Kenobi. 😂

He had to disarm and kill them. He didn't defeat them with tk alone. Context.

Yoda force pushed Sheev does that mean he can force push him whenever he wants. 😂

Kenobi wasn't that great. He lost and despite Kenobi's own warning. Awful.

Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
I know I had an Internet issue.

He turned for a brief period of time. Well he was smart enough to manipulate an entire Jedi council, dooku, the rebel alliance, the genosisian leaders, and a lot of other things.

So losing half your body is the same to losing your arms and legs and the incredible potential to become the most powerful being the universe has ever known, suffering burns to the bone, and needing a suit to carry out the rest of that life in your eyes. You are a fanboy for maul. Did you not see Revenge of the sith. He all his organic arms and legs and he still survived.

Maul was more impressive than a guy needing a suit to cling to life.