Originally posted by Selenial
If only you hadn't gone on for three paragraphs literally proving that they're Sith Apprentices... an apprentice is an apprentice.
When they're like 13 days away from graduating as fully fledged Sith Lords with the weakest of them being more powerful than an entire division of soldiers (which have been known to be equipped with disruptors and blaster proof armor), highly mentally trained, and far beyond the level of Sith Marauders, who can stomp padawans within the first exchange of blows, as well as above Sith Acolytes, who are noted as matches for Jedi knights, yes, these Sith should not even remotely be treated as low as padawan level opponents just because they're apprentices 13 days away from graduating as Lords when they're clearly well above that.
Originally posted by Selenial
If you have any sort of proof that these Sith Apprentice's perceptions are greater than those of a Magnaguard then perhaps I'd concede this, but your argument is astoundingly baseless. These Magnaguards were designed to keep up with the fastest Jedi, one almost felling Kenobi, whose speed was described as blinding by Count Dooku.
And that's why Ahsoka cut down three of them on literally her first week as a Padawan, or Nahdar scrapping them? And you say tuk'ata vary when Magnaguards are noted to vary by experience?
Observing the magnaguards that landed on Coruscant (as that seems to be the best thing to do to you know, get a read on the magnaguards that were on coruscant), Fisto basically blitzed two of them, dancing in circles around them and dismembering them with every rotation, and they were also being matched and defeated by Jedi Grievous considered relative novices, so no I don't think a Kenobi comparison is warranted here any more than an Ahsoka/Nahdar one is.
Originally posted by Selenial
Bane could defend against Kas'im with typical dueling. Marek had to barrage her with Lightning and Sarlacc teeth just to keep her from decapitating him. How are the two comparable again? mmm
You mean like how Shaak Ti commanded the flora and fauna of the planet to attack him? mmm
And again, you're acting as if Galen Marek at this point can be compared to Bane and Kas'im by anything other than his fight with Shaak Ti (which wouldn't work here due to circular logic), when all he has is being called near perfect in a few forms (which doesn't measure up to Kas'im), getting matched by Rahm Kota who has no dueling feats other than fighting Galen, and not overcoming Kazdan Paratus, who has no dueling feats other than fighting Galen Marek.
Originally posted by Selenial
Perhaps, it's true Marek lacks a multitude of Strength feats, although what he does have aren't anything to suggest he is significantly weaker than Bane. Starkiller's force reserves are significantly larger than Bane's, and he kept up with the likes of Darth Vader, someone who's far and away Bane's superior.
Yeah, he kept up with Vader after his abilities progressed further after Felucia, but prior to that he notes that he and Vader had never fought as equals and that Vader had always been holding back on him.
Originally posted by Selenial
Actual physical muscle rarely actually matters, when judging Force Users. Obi-Wan wasn't much to look at, yet he quite happily contended with Darth Maul. Shaak Ti's mostly skin and bone, yet she round house kicked a 3 tonne Steel door 20m into the air: http://comicvine.gamespot.com/images/1300-5065446 (credit to Ant)
3 tonne?
Also, that'd all be fine and good for comparing Galen and Bane, except Galen's raw physicality doesn't begin to compare to Bane's, and he doesn't have force augmentative feats on Bane's level at this point regardless.
Originally posted by Selenial
Really? Tuk'ata are the same as Magnaguards?Tuk'ata vary in size astronomically. They can be anything from the size of a dog, to the size of small cars. It's been shown how much they vary in numerous different sources, since plenty of people have managed to fare better against Tuk'ata than those you listed, who are their superiors. The Exile faced packs on a Dark Side Nexus, killing far more than a dozen in total. Darth Talon managed to kill Nihl's personally trained Tuk'ata in the middle of their fight, despite the fact Nihl should be for all intents and purposes her superior, however slightly.
How many the Exile killed in total isn't quite the same as Bane taking on a dozen at once tbh, and Talon killing one Tuk'ata doesn't compare either.
And Tuk'ata vary? With magnaguards at one point you have three of them losing to TCW Movie Ahsoka, and at another point apparently Obi-Wan struggles with one, and they're stated to be at different levels based on their experience. If anything magnaguards vary a whole hell of a lot more.
At least the two other known instances where a group similarly sized to the one that faced Bane have shown up, they've given trouble to Jedi groups consisting of some of the Order's greatest duelists. Not to mention Sorzus Syn, a Sith powerful enough to create leviathans and one of Sidious's most powerful predecessors was almost killed by some of them prior to the Sith's further enhancements of them.
Not to mention they've been noted by the Jedi (prior to encountering them in Jedi Quest btw) as gigantic creatures, and in the SWTOR codex as oversized as well, so a large size should be the standard, as SWTOR, and every comic they've appeared in seems to show.
Originally posted by Selenial
Fighting 12 Tuk'ata also means you fight a maximum of 2-3 at a time, given their size and how easy they are to manipulate on the battlefield. They don't work in unison, they physically can't. Magnaguards are designed to, her feat is miles better.
First of all, are the Tuk'ata too large to fight in tandem? Or are they pathetic dog size? Make up your mind Sel.
And they don't work in unison? Easy to manipulate? Ummm...
Seem pretty tactically intelligent prior to having their brain mass doubled by the Sith Lords.
"The ancient Sith Lords alchemically altered the already brutal canines of their world, adding horns, increasing their size, and doubling their brain mass. Some have hypothesized that if Sith hounds had the physical capability and the inclination, they could even speak sentient languages. Sith hounds are unswervingly loyal to darksiders, to whom their senses are especially attuned. They were left on Korriban because the ancient Dark Lords of the Sith wanted trustworthy guardians to protect their remains. A Sith hound's most notable feature is the remarkable intelligence evident behind its yellow eyes.
Sith hounds are one of the most unpredictable "animal" enemies in the galaxy. Sometimes they attack as soon as they feel threatened. More often they sit patiently, waiting for an opening in their opponent's defenses. This is especially true if they believe a foe does not realize their true nature. Packs of Sith hounds can execute complicated hunting and attack maneuvers, guided by their enhanced intelligence and canine ancestry. Never underestimate them."
-The Dark Side Sourcebook
^oh, seems like they've got amazing teamwork as well^
This would help them since they had Bane surrounded before they attacked him btw.
And also, the Tuk'ata are force sensitive creatures.
"There were simply too many of them, and they were too strong with the dark side of the Force."-Fate of the Jedi: Ascension
Originally posted by Selenial
I'm also not understanding why you're using feats from Kas'im's superior, in an attempt to show Kas'im could replicate them despite losing to the individual who performed them?
You're mistaken actually, as Kas'im would've basically almost blitzed Bane at this point in time, being capable of killing Bane with his very first lightsaber sequence prior to their duel on Lehon.
Path of Destruction
Kas'im sighed. "Then your life ends here." And be leapt in, his weapon moving with far more speed than he had ever shown during their practice sessions.Parrying the first sequence Bane realized his former Master had always been holding something in reserve . . . just as Bane himself had done in the early stages of his battle against Sirak. Only now was he seeing Kas'im's true ability, and he was barely able to defend himself. Barely, but still able.
His opponent grunted in surprise when Bane warded him off, then stepped back to regroup. He'd come in hard and fast, expecting to end their battle quickly. Now he had to reevaluate his strategy.
"You're better than you were when we last fought," he said, clearly impressed and making no attempt to hide it.
So yeah, Bane as of that point would get stomped by Kas'im within one sequence of dueling 👆