Rank Lucifer and Michael In Marvel Cosmology

Originally posted by Mr Master
But there's no "creation" to destroy in a void, good friend.

If any of those Marvel Big Bangers would've released those energies withIN reality,
then all creation would have exploded with it.

But from the "void" ... those energies can only create. Because logically there's no space-time to destroy.

In Marvel at-least.

There was no creation to destroy because he took Michael into the void, right? So how does that negate what Lucifer did? Since there was nothing to destroy it means..what?

But as I've said before: if people really to want to make a big deal over it...Lucifer has other high level feats that have been mentioned.

Originally posted by Surtur

Okay but you realize that if these characters can do that..they are not heralds, but far above them.

It's impressive that the culmination of their clashing rang a bell across the universe,
but this is not a universal feat, even taking the 'synergetic' affect into account.

Why? Because they didn't cause universal adverse affects. The damage was infinitely below that.

Originally posted by zopzop
That's the very point of this thread! Where do Lucifer/Michael rank in Marvel Cosmology.

We're comparing them to beings in the MU, so we're gonna use MU characters as measuring sticks (feats and all).

Yes, where do they fit in Marvel cosmology.

Not "hey lets use the rules of universe #2 to lowball this feat from totally independent universe #1"

It's like asking how the Flash rank in the real world but saying his super speed doesn't count because the Speed Force doesn't exist in real life.

Originally posted by Mr Master
In Marvel at-least.

Makes sense and yeah I was thinking about the Flash in this too.

Originally posted by Surtur

There was no creation to destroy because he took Michael into the void, right? So how does that negate what Lucifer did? Since there was nothing to destroy it means..what?

Imo though, if it's true what I heard here and there, that it was divinely planned for Lucifer to do this,
then I personally can't see how the plan didn't call for his protection to get the job done.

Unless of course, he has other high-end durability feats.

Originally posted by Surtur

Lucifer has other high level feats that have been mentioned.

Originally posted by Cogito
Yes, where do they fit in Marvel cosmology.

Not "hey lets use the rules of universe #2 to lowball this feat from totally independent universe #1"

Universe 1 needs to step up it's game.

It's like asking how the Flash rank in the real world but saying his super speed doesn't count because the Speed Force doesn't exist in real life.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Imo though, if it's true what I heard here and there, that it was divinely planned for Lucifer to do this,
then I personally can't see how the plan didn't call for his protection to get the job done.

That's what many in this thread are claiming, but none of them can back that up with a shred of proof. It's a nice theory, no doubt about it, but there's no evidence of it.

Fun Facts:
Lucifer was explicitly said to be the second most powerful being in creation, both on panel and in writer commentary
Lucifer was explicitly said to be greater in power than the entire infinite heavenly host
Lucifer was explicitly said to be greater in power than both Death and Dream of the endless
Lucifer fought and killed Michael while both were equally weakened under the same conditions

Spectre is multiversal, Endless are multiversal, so going by logic (seeing that Morningstar and Demiurgo is of higher rank according to DC cosmology) i don't understand why it is this much of a challenge to recognize Lucifer and Michael as multiversal. Whats the problem here? I'd rather go back to the op and see where everyone would put them lol.

Originally posted by Cogito
Fun Facts:
Lucifer was explicitly said to be the second most powerful being in creation, both on panel and in writer commentary

Then there's this :

Originally posted by zopzop
The only haters are the people losing their minds and attacking others for debating ambiguous feats by fictional characters.

😎

Like blue area vet

:

Originally posted by zopzop
GEB called. He said this 'fact' is bull.

Then there's this :

GEB didn't exist, having merged with the Presense (he was the Presence anyways) about 15 years earlier.

And scans have likewise been posted saying Lucifer is #2. It's also said that they're equals, so both #2. Not sure what your point is.

Originally posted by zopzop
GEB called. He said this 'fact' is bull.

Then there's this :

There's nothing wrong with stating that Lucifer is the #2 after God in creation. TGEB was not a part of God's creation. 😕

Originally posted by Cogito
GEB didn't exist, having merged with the Presense (he was the Presence anyways) about 15 years earlier.

"God" threw everything he had at him and it didn't stop him, even the Fallen Angels joined, but failed. "God" had to intervene himself to stop Synnar :

[]bAnd scans have likewise been posted saying Lucifer is #2. It's also said that they're equals, so both #2. Not sure what your point is. [/B]

You point is invalid, since it was already proven Lucifer and Michael are multiversal now your grasping for straws, but they keep coming up short.

Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
You point is invalid, since it was already proven Lucifer and Michael are multiversal now your grasping for straws, but they keep coming up short.

And according to the scan I provided they were created by Synnar not Yahweh (DC and Vertigo characters are supposedly one).

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Sure thing there OneZee... Get back to me when they do something remotely impressive on their own. Do tell me how powerful Lucifer... when he needs Michael's power to do anything impressive.

Originally posted by zopzop
Not really.

Here's FOUR MARVEL HERALDS shoring up the multiverse to save it from collapsing :

Heralds. Marvel Heralds.

http://i738.photobucket.com/albums/xx28/PhilosophiaKMC/vibrationghostearth1.jpg
http://i738.photobucket.com/albums/xx28/PhilosophiaKMC/vibrationghostearth2.jpg

Herald.

Originally posted by zopzop

What about Synnar? He created EVERYTHING sans "God" :

"God" threw everything he had at him and it didn't stop him, even the Fallen Angels joined, but failed. "God" had to intervene himself to stop Synnar :

My point is, Michael could have destroyed them all, including Lucifer (according to that scan) but didn't. [/B]

Different creation stories Zop.

Keep hating.

👆

Theres many creation tales.

Just as Rao is the creator of the universe in kryptonian mythology.
Just as The Source is the creator to the New Gods.

The same is true of multiple creation stories in Marvel.

But it doesn't matter if it was called a universe. We know creation isn't because we've seen other universes and timelines.
No random character statement is going to change that.
It was just being used interchangably, as multiverse was also used by the same character/author/title.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Nobody cares about what you think kid. Post a scan and then talk.
So, you're going to do such things? Fine, one DC herald saves the omniverse.

http://i738.photobucket.com/albums/xx28/PhilosophiaKMC/vibrationghostearth1.jpg
http://i738.photobucket.com/albums/xx28/PhilosophiaKMC/vibrationghostearth2.jpg

Herald.

Vibrating? 😆

Originally posted by abhilegend
Nobody cares about what you think kid. Post a scan and then talk.
So, you're going to do such things? Fine, one DC herald saves the omniverse.

http://i738.photobucket.com/albums/xx28/PhilosophiaKMC/vibrationghostearth1.jpg
http://i738.photobucket.com/albums/xx28/PhilosophiaKMC/vibrationghostearth2.jpg

Herald.

😛