Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Nefaria (Stilt hasn't answered if its classic or not)
Just because he had a few bad showings in the modern era, doesn't mean we should differentiate 2 versions of him.
Why should he get that kind of special treatment? 😛
Hulk got choked out by a snake once. He has low showings, too.
Originally posted by Surtur
Yeah, but there are 3 of them and 1 of him.If people want to say the Hulk is a speedster and yet his speed would remain allowed..well, what would be the point of disallowing speed for one side, but not the other? It doesn't seem like this was intended to be a spite thread.
Personally I find the evidence he is a speedster at all dubious.
Hulk blitz the hell out of them.
http://media.bestlittlesites.com/images/users/uploads/10300/HULK2012011_int_LR-3-4.jpg
If this is Doc Green, he teleport behind them punching each out of orbit.
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
So how fast was he going?And how fast are Hype/Glads/Nef? Human level? Alfred-level? Penguin-level? Aunt May? Batman? Nightwing? Considering Glads isn't even human, what is a Strontian with no superspeed at?
Let me guess, carver, your answer will be: they're at a level lower than Hulk. Proof?
The speed for them has been removed. They do not have any speed at all. Hulk does.
In that scenario, Hulk was moving fast enough that the humans were at a standstill. Frozen. However fast that is.
Originally posted by carver9
The speed for them has been removed. They do not have any speed at all. Hulk does.In that scenario, Hulk was moving fast enough that the humans were at a standstill. Frozen. However fast that is.
I have scans of Damian Wayne (without powers, obv) doing the same. Speedblitzing, with the fancy after-effects.
Damian is only human. So....are these three at that level?
Here is what a human with no superspeed can achieve (if we assume we can use the same arguments as Carver). Now imagine if those punches were backed up by Gladiator's strength, or Nefaria, or Hyperion.....
Note, Robin was also poisoned by Joker Venom, so he wasn't punching at 100%.
Here's another example:
http://i.imgur.com/drDeeA2.png
Unless, of course, carver is being literal, and the team has ZERO speed - IOW, just standing there, frozen like statues. I can understand his viewpoint then.
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
I have scans of Damian Wayne (without powers, obv) doing the same. Speedblitzing, with the fancy after-effects.Damian is only human. So....are these three at that level?
Come on man. That's like me posting scans of Spiderman seeing the world frozen (bullets as well) as evidence of discrediting Superman and Flash restaurant frozen showing.
Also, just because Damian martial arts talented self did that doesn't mean every human in comics can. We don't share fts here.
Originally posted by carver9
Come on man. That's like me posting scans of Spiderman seeing the world frozen (bullets as well) as evidence of discrediting Superman and Flash restaurant frozen showing.Also, just because Damian martial arts talented self did that doesn't mean every human in comics can. We don't share fts here.
That is PRECISELY what you're doing, though. Sharing feats. Glad you finally see it.
You're saying because those humans were frozen, Glads/Hype/Nef would also be frozen. We don't share feats. If you want to say that the team is at the level of those humans, then I get to use other humans' feats. Batman, BP, everyone's feats.
Look at how Damian is punching. No finesse. No skills. Not sure how MA training is supposed to help you with spamming haymakers and uppercuts.
Unless, as I said before, you are being literal and saying that at the start of the fight, the team are all locked down and frozen in place?
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
That is PRECISELY what you're doing, though. Sharing feats. Glad you finally see it.You're saying because those humans were frozen, Glads/Hype/Nef would also be frozen. We don't share feats. If you want to say that the team is at the level of those humans, then I get to use other humans' feats. Batman, BP, everyone's feats.
Look at how Damian is punching. No finesse. No skills. Not sure how MA training is supposed to help you with spamming haymakers.
Unless, as I said before, you are being literal and saying that at the start of the fight, the team are all locked down and frozen in place?
I never compared them to those humans though. The only thing I did was post that showing and said that they would get blitz. Hulk has speed here, they do not. He can literally blitz one of them (which would probably be Hyperion first) and punch him out of orbit.
Originally posted by carver9
I never compared them to those humans though. The only thing I did was post that showing and said that they would get blitz. Hulk has speed here, they do not. He can literally blitz one of them (which would probably be Hyperion first) and punch him out of orbit.
Why would they be blitzed? Because Hulk was faster than some humans? What makes you so sure he's faster than the team, when all you've shown is him being faster than some humans?
IOW, how fast do you see the team as being? Don't just parrot the OP, in your mind, are you not comparing the team to those humans?
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Why would they be blitzed? Because Hulk was faster than some humans? What makes you so sure he's faster than the team, when all you've shown is him being faster than some humans?IOW, how fast do you see the team as being? Don't just parrot the OP, in your mind, are you not comparing the team to those humans?
Because he blitzed Ironman and because he blitzed Jack of Hearts. He also blitzed this version of Hyperion...
And this is when Hyperion possessed all of his abilities.
He blitzed people faster than normal humans including Wonderman and Ironman.
He's just fast as hell.
Here is the JOH instance.
I'm sure you don't believe these beings have human speeds, do you?
Originally posted by carver9
Because he blitzed Ironman and because he blitzed Jack of Hearts. He also blitzed this version of Hyperion...And this is when Hyperion possessed all of his abilities.
He blitzed people faster than normal humans including Wonderman and Ironman.
He's just fast as hell.
Here is the JOH instance.
I'm sure you don't believe these beings have human speeds, do you?
So...once more - how fast is the team?
Smasher was able to react just fine, and even shout a warning out to Hyperion - she is human level in reflex speed in that scan (as she's flying). Try again.
Gladiator possesses superhuman speed (i.e. he is faster than normal human) but he doesn't have superspeed nor any other superpowers relative to his own race. He's a normal (albeit near peak) strontian; not a super strontian.
Thus Gladiator without superspeed is just the normal Gladiator, and he is orders of magnitude faster than Hulk.
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
So...once more - how fast is the team?Smasher was able to react just fine, and even shout a warning out to Hyperion - she is human level in reflex speed in that scan (as she's flying). Try again.
They don't have any speed. So any SPEED showings that you provide in this debate doesn't apply to them since they do not possess any speed for this battle.
If Hulk was aiming at her, she would've been hit. Good thing Hulk was aiming at Hype who was unable to react. Then she said that during the time Hulk fist was in Hyperion face.
So when characters are nerfed in OP's and said powerless what do we assume they are at? Peak human? Average American male? Are they obese now? If it was Thor powerless, we have showings that put him above average. These guys have never been shown powerless in a comic to my knowledge.
Hulk has speed feats because he is so strong. If they are still that strong shouldnt they be able to move as fast as their strength allows?
First instinct is spite against Hulk and he gets raped. Its not even a fair fight. But if he is superhuman fast and they are regular human its a little different. Even though all 3 are his peers in strength and durability.
Originally posted by ShadowFyre
So when characters are nerfed in OP's and said powerless what do we assume they are at? Peak human? Average American male? Are they obese now? If it was Thor powerless, we have showings that put him above average. These guys have never been shown powerless in a comic to my knowledge.Hulk has speed feats because he is so strong. If they are still that strong shouldnt they be able to move as fast as their strength allows?
First instinct is spite against Hulk and he gets raped. Its not even a fair fight. But if he is superhuman fast and they are regular human its a little different. Even though all 3 are his peers in strength and durability.
They have no speed here and they need it to make this fight fair.
Hulk's damage soak AND strength is greater than everyone here. This has been said on panel AND it has been mentioned by the creator of Hyperion himself that Hulk is stronger.
Originally posted by carver9
They have no speed here and they need it to make this fight fair.Hulk's damage soak AND strength is greater than everyone here. This has been said on panel AND it has been mentioned by the creator of Hyperion himself that Hulk is stronger.
So, they are statues, standing there, frozen in time (0 speed means 0 mph, after all). Are you taking it literally?
Damage soak is greater? Hyperion?
AND creator interviews don't count. Even if they did, are you saying Hyperion > Gladiator? Because if not, then it does not matter IF Hype < Hulk, because he has two elites with him as well.
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
So, they are statues, standing there, frozen in time (0 speed means 0 mph, after all). Are you taking it literally?Damage soak is greater? Hyperion?
AND creator interviews don't count. Even if they did, are you saying Hyperion > Gladiator? Because if not, then it does not matter IF Hype < Hulk, because he has two elites with him as well.
Human level reaction, not Batman or Robin (who are skilled in all areas) level speeds.
The creator should know who's stronger and Hulk's latest bio (along with Ironman telling us) states that Hulk is the strongest being on the planet.
Yes, Hyperion is stronger than Gladiator (along with 99% of the elites in my opinion).
Originally posted by carver9
Human level reaction, not Batman or Robin (who are skilled in all areas) level speeds.
Based on? And Lol at shifting the goalposts. All Robin did there was throw wild punches, whilst poisoned.
The creator should know who's stronger and Hulk's latest bio (along with Ironman telling us) states that Hulk is the strongest being on the planet.
Yes, Hyperion is stronger than Gladiator (along with 99% of the elites in my opinion).
Sweet. Interviews AND bios. Your evidence game is stepping up.
