Vitiate/Kun/Malak v. Sidious/Krayt/Maul

Started by The_Tempest12 pages
Originally posted by Nephthys
In Ants respect thread. I see he's posted some of it. Predictably, Ant is overstating things. It doesn't actually say "tipping the entire tide of the battle and corrupting many Jedi." It just says he corrupted some and that it affected the fight. Its more a feat for Malachor than anything.

yeah but everybody knows nexuses don't matter that much c'mon

Originally posted by Nephthys
Like I said, Sidious' fight would be inconclusive by the time Krayt loses to his opponent.

I see. This particular incarnation of Vitiate has enough juice to stalemate the Emperor in this environment? Indefinitely, or is the gap between Krayt and Kun that pronounced?

The thing with Malachor and nexus is that, by the looks of he, he moved the corruptive energies of the planet to orbit to affect the Jedi.

He could have also dominated the minds of the Jedi to feel the corrupt energies of the planet below.

Either way, Revan was directly involved in the corruption of the Jedi, and it's a pretty damn impressive feat.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
We can logically conclude he corrupted all his Jedi under his command given they all left with him into the Unknown Regions loyally. To me that's "many." 👆

Another description says that "more and more Jedi" were corrupted. So it's clearly a lot.

And by the looks of it he did tip the entire tide of the battle because, before his arrival, Meetra Surik and her forces were being utterly creamed by the Mandalorians.

Pretty sure the MSG had more of an impact, tbh. Lol.

And a bunch of those Jedi were already corrupted by war and not all needed to be corrupted to follow Revan. And Revan specifically killed everyone not loyal to him with the MSG, so clearly not "all" of them.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Pretty sure the MSG had more of an impact, tbh. Lol.

This was before the MSG.

Originally posted by Nephthys
And a bunch of those Jedi were already corrupted by war and not all needed to be corrupted to follow Revan. And Revan specifically killed everyone not loyal to him with the MSG, so clearly not "all" of them.

He put everyone not loyal to him under Surik's command.

He corrupted all of his troopers that were not already loyal to him.

It's clearly "many" Jedi, Neph. Don't even try to deny it, lmfao.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
The thing with Malachor and nexus is that, by the looks of he, he moved the corruptive energies of the planet to orbit to affect the Jedi.

I... don't follow. Telepathy clearly isn't restricted by physical proximity. He needn't have moved energies anywhere; all he need have done is draw on them to increase the power of his influence and perhaps his range as well.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
yeah but everybody knows nexuses don't matter that much c'mon

I see. This particular incarnation of Vitiate has enough juice to stalemate the Emperor in this environment? Indefinitely, or is the gap between Krayt and Kun that pronounced?

Malachor is insanely corruptive.

Either. The gap is enough, imo.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Malachor is insanely corruptive.

oh so its just this nexus that counts i gotchya

Originally posted by Nephthys
Either. The gap is enough, imo.

mmm

What leads you to believe this particular incarnation of Vitiate can stalemate the Emperor briefly or indefinitely in this particular environment?

And what leads you to believe the gap betwixt Kun and Krayt is pronounced enough to make a victory by team 2 less likely than team 1?

edit: rewriting my post

That... doesn't make any sense at all. Empowered by Malachor, Revan influenced the orbital battle. I don't know how you're concluding that he like lifted the elevation of the nexus to orbital levels.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
oh so its just this nexus that counts i gotchya

mmm

What leads you to believe this particular incarnation of Vitiate can stalemate the Emperor briefly or indefinitely in this particular environment?

And what leads you to believe the gap betwixt Kun and Krayt is pronounced enough to make a victory by team 2 less likely than team 1?

Like Ant said, he didn't use an amp or whatever, he just used Malachor's corruptive influence to affect them. He was a dummy and missed half a quote:

"Revan is able to draw upon the dark side energies of the planet below and use it during the battle... Simultaneously, more and more Jedi, unable to ignore the power emanating from the planet below, become corrupted by its influence."

―Star Wars: Chronicles of the Old Republic

Well Talzin did. Even as of Revan Vitiate's lightning is good enough that he can rival or maybe even surpass Sidious' own. His TP, TK and sorcery are also top tier, he'd stand up to Sidious for a good while. Dude's a powerhouse even at this point.

The evidence of Kun being a boss. I just do, he'd overwhelm him with amulet blasts or whatever. Kun is legit and I'm not Nai enough to go into more detail when I feel like shit.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Like Ant said, he didn't use an amp or whatever, he just used Malachor's corruptive influence to affect them. He was a dummy and missed half a quote:

"Revan is able to draw upon the dark side energies of the planet below and use it during the battle... Simultaneously, more and more Jedi, unable to ignore the power emanating from the planet below, become corrupted by its influence."

―Star Wars: Chronicles of the Old Republic

😬

The quote says Revan drew upon its power. Clearly the energies that were affecting the orbital battle were ultimately from Malachor, but at Revan's direction. He didn't lift the nexus or any silly shit.

i dont understand you guys tbh

Originally posted by Nephthys
Well Talzin did.

Is Talzin an anagram of Vitiate?

Talzin went toe-to-toe with Sheev "at the heart of her power."

Originally posted by Nephthys
Even as of Revan Vitiate's lightning is good enough that he can rival or maybe even surpass Sidious' own. His TP, TK and sorcery are also top tier,

On Dromund Kaas, a dark side nexus?

Originally posted by Nephthys
he'd stand up to Sidious for a good while. Dude's a powerhouse even at this point.

I don't think anyone has presented a legitimate case for this. Feats cited involve dark side nexuses, traps, a buttload of speculation, and irrelevant chronology.

Originally posted by Nephthys
The evidence of Kun being a boss. I just do, he'd overwhelm him with amulet blasts or whatever. Kun is legit and I'm not Nai enough to go into more detail when I feel like shit.

I see.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Telepathy clearly isn't restricted by physical proximity. He needn't have moved energies anywhere; all he need have done is draw on them to increase the power of his influence and perhaps his range as well.

It's more complex than that, tbh.

First, I'll take you back to when Revan first discovered Malachor. He was unaware of the true nature of the world until he reached the surface. It's clearly not affecting ships or Jedi in space when Revan didn't realize it was a dark side world until he reached the surface. When he reached the surface, he discovered how powerful it truly was.

Once there, on Malachor V, "he fell deeper into the Dark Side. He learned of the location and the true nature of Korriban, he learned of the location of other Sith artifacts, and he learned how those strong in the light side of the Force could be seduced and made to see the strength inherent in the Sith teachings. He had discovered a world that held one purpose - to teach and train others in the ways of the Sith. He had discovered a weapon that he could use against the Mandalorians, and a weapon by which he could convert more Jedi to his cause."

This takes us to game-day.

The Battle of Malachor V was one of the deadliest and influential battles in galactic history. It marked the end of the Mandalorians as a galactic threat for the rest of time, and set the scene for the Jedi Civil Wars and First Jedi Purge. The entire battle was manipulated by Revan alone to...

1.) Eradicate the Mandalorian armada from the face of the galaxy for history.
2.) Gain an army of Jedi and Republic followers with unyielding loyalty to him.

The plan itself was highly complex and was planned by Revan since his first encounter with Malachor V.

"Master, I do not believe that the Mandalorians were the true target at Malachor. I believe that the intention was to destroy the Jedi, break their will, and make them loyal to Revan. I do not know if you examined the records of the deaths on Malachor, but you cannot escape that many of the Jedi and Republic soldiers who died were not Revan's strongest supporters. I believe that Revan was "cleaning house" at Malachor V. What ones did not die became Revan's allies against the Republic."
―HK-47 (Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic 2: The Sith Lords)

As the game canonically says, "It is no coincidence that the Republic fleet at Malachor was composed of soldiers and Jedi whose loyalties to Revan were in doubt." Before the Battle of Malachor V, Revan split his fleet in two. He gave Meetra Surik the "tattered remains" of a portion of his armada, whose soldiers' loyalties were in doubt through the horrors of war and loss. The soldiers that remained with him were the ones he had molded into unwavering loyalty. Upon seeing the "damaged, weakened and vulnerable" armada led by Meetra Surik, the Mandalorians quickly followed them. As Revan planned, she lured them to Malachor V. Malachor V was a forbidden world to the Mandalorians - a cultural taboo that Revan used against them. If you recall, Malachor V was also a planet that contained immense dark side energies Revan planned to use against both fleets.

The battle began with Revan's fleet conveniently delayed by a mere Mandalorian scouting party. This setback was however Revan's intentions. He needed to join the battle with the Republic on the losing end of the spectrum for the next phase of the plan to effectively work. Bao-Dur, the creator of the Mass Shadow Generator, describes that, before Revan arrived, the Mandalorian forces "tore into us like beasts, shredding our ships to scrap as we fought back."

""Revan used the Trayus Academy to influence the battle above Malachor V, using its power to affect the tide of battle and corrupt others to the Sith. "
―Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic II: The Sith Lords

When Revan arrived with the bulk of the Republic fleet at his back, the Mandalorians realized they have been tricked. Revan used the Force to call upon the dark side energies of Malachor V and the Trayus Academy, and then released the energies against both fleets. The dark side power turned the side of the conflict while also corrupting hundreds of Jedi into his Sith minions.

The feat is both a mixture of Revan's telepathic powers and tutaminis, imo. Firstly, we know he affected the Mandalorian fleet drastically. I'm not sure a dark side nexus affects non-Force sensitives, so it's safe to say he was doing a lot of that manually. However we also know that all his own Jedi were affected, and turned into Sith simultaneously. By the looks of it, Revan either moved the nexus up to orbit because, as we covered earlier, the Jedi clearly can't feel the nexus of the planet from orbit, or Revan telepathically influenced the Jedi to feel the presence of Malachor down below given the fact they all felt it at the same time. Either way, it's an incredible feat.

Your theory that Revan used the nexus to influence the fleet is possible, however, like Nephthys said, we know that the Jedi were ultimately influenced by the "planet." It's possible the quote simply means the "planet" as in Revan is getting the energies from the planet and thus Malachor is affecting them indirectly. While I disagree with your theory, it still portrays Revan as enormously powerful, so I shall allow it. 😮‍💨

Originally posted by The_Tempest
😬

The quote says Revan drew upon its power. Clearly the energies that were affecting the orbital battle were ultimately from Malachor, but at Revan's direction. He didn't lift the nexus or any silly shit.

i dont understand you guys tbh

It says they were corrupted by the energies "emanating" from the planet. You know what emanating means, right?

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Is Talzin an anagram of Vitiate?

Talzin went toe-to-toe with Sheev "at the heart of her power."

Well, it almost is.

Who cares? Vitiate is very comparable to her even at the heart of her power.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
On Dromund Kaas, a dark side nexus?

:fart noises:

Originally posted by The_Tempest
I don't think anyone has presented a legitimate case for this. Feats cited involve dark side nexuses, traps, a buttload of speculation, and irrelevant chronology.

:farting intensifies:

Originally posted by The_Tempest
I see.

I know.

Originally posted by Nephthys
It says they were corrupted by the energies "emanating" from the planet. You know what emanating means, right?

I do. You do know what planet means, right? He didn't put that shit in orbit.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Who cares? Vitiate is very comparable to her even at the heart of her power.

When he's not at the heart of his own? You've yet to make that case.

Originally posted by Nephthys
:fart noises:
Originally posted by Nephthys
:farting intensifies:

The most thoughtful section of your post tbh.

Originally posted by Nephthys
I know.

Sounds like your position relies on lots of bias and speculation tbh.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
I do. You do know what planet means, right? He didn't put that shit in orbit.

Yeah, he kind of drew the power up to affect everyone or something. Like if it was a rancid-ass fart and he put a big fan behind it or something.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
When he's not at the heart of his own? You've yet to make that case.

Good thing you're just asking for my opinion and not telling me to make a case without making one yourself.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
The most thoughtful section of your post tbh.

ty

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Sounds like your position relies on lots of bias and speculation tbh.

It relies on a lot of preformed stances built off of several years worth of evaluation, tbh.

So we've established that Revan drew on Malachor's power to affect the orbital battle and can put to rest that bizarre notion that he literally raised its elevation.

I'm interested to see where ILS v. Nai goes. 👍

Originally posted by The_Tempest
When he's not at the heart of his own? You've yet to make that case.

Vitiate is 'generally' stated to be supremely strong in the dark side and almost godlike avatar of the dark side.

Not a single source asserts that Vitiate is supremely powerful on Dromund Kaas and/or worlds strong in the dark side only.

Vitiate's great power is not a product of external environments, it is self-earned. You won't find a source that would assert that Vitiate is virtually unstoppable here on Dromund Kaas or something like that but is vulnerable in a neutral setting.

Vitiate transformed Dromund Kaas with his dark practices and power, not the other way around.

No shit Vitiate is extremely strong no matter where he is. Doesn't mean he's strong enough to take on the Emperor no matter where he is.

Vitiate is the Emperor tho.

An Emperor, not the Galactic Emperor though.