Black Lives Matter is a movement with actual goals
Originally posted by psmith81992
I'm sorry, I had to laugh when I read that because it appeared you were being serious. If you can tell me their actual goals and then show me how they are going about achieving them (in a hilariously incompetent manner), I'll follow it closer.
Brb starting #JewishLivesMatter
This made me lol.
Originally posted by Jmanghan
See, where everyone goes into politics with all this shit, I try to look at it in a Black&White point of view. (No pun intended).This is right, and this is wrong. The police officers who purposely killed those black men and women for no reason deserve what the blacks got.
However, it isn't just done to blacks.
What about that homeless white guy that police officers beat to death.
His father was also a police officer, so him being an officer didn't help anything, the courts didn't dish out justice to him either.
Why do you think people get so nervous around police officers? They do have a certain power about them, you can't hit them or fight back, you go outside having to worry about being KILLED by police officers, the people who are supposed to protect you.
Frankly, its sick.
However, its absolutely horrible that black people think they can kill officers and whites whenever they want, racism is always gonna be a thing. But, it shouldn't be.
I have no idea what you are trying to say with this. It's all over the place.
Originally posted by Jmanghan
See, where everyone goes into politics with all this shit, I try to look at it in a Black&White point of view. (No pun intended).This is right, and this is wrong. The police officers who purposely killed those black men and women for no reason deserve what the blacks got.
However, it isn't just done to blacks.
What about that homeless white guy that police officers beat to death.
The treatment of the poor and mentally ill should also be looked at, without a doubt.
This kind of thing happens to black people more often than white people, hence black lives matters.
And you know what? If people chimed in and started adding #PoorLivesMatter and *MentallyIllLivesMatter in addition to #BlackLivesMatter, I'd be for that. "Hey, they're calling attention to a specific measurable and well-documented problem, let's also call attention to other specific problems and work together to raise awareness," is a logical and reasonable response.
But that's not what people pushing All Lives Matter are doing. They're trying to replace one call for respect for lives with a generic platitude that doesn't acknowledge poor or mentally ill people vulnerable to the police any more than it does black people.
Why do you think people get so nervous around police officers? They do have a certain power about them, you can't hit them or fight back, you go outside having to worry about being KILLED by police officers, the people who are supposed to protect you.Frankly, its sick.
Right. This is why problems with the police having it out for specific groups is especially bad.
Like, even aside from violence, in Ferguson, the laws were set up so that the police could give citations for almost everything, including 'method of walking,' (CNN link) for the purpose of extracting money from people... largely the black poor in the city.
Some nice stats include, Blacks make up 67 percent of the city's population, but are 86 percent of motorists stopped by police. Whites make up 29 percent of the population, but 12.7 percent of vehicle stops.
Black individuals result in discovery of contraband 21.7 percent of the time, while searches of whites produce contraband 34 percent of the time.
Another Source, the NYT "they accounted for 85 percent of police traffic stops, 90 percent of citations issued, and 93 percent of arrests."
White citizens of Ferguson are both much less likely to be stopped and half again as likely to be carrying contraband as black citizens, and get arrested far less.
Now, Ferguson is a bad case, but it is far from unique. The statistics even on a national level are also slanted- just look at the marijuana usage vs arrests stats. White people use more, black people get arrested far more.
However, its absolutely horrible that black people think they can kill officers and whites whenever they want, racism is always gonna be a thing. But, it shouldn't be.
What.
That situation is not remotely like reality- Black Americans notoriously get heavier sentences than White Americans.
The problem is that not only do police offers think they can get away with killing a black suspect and calling 'thug' or 'he had a weapon (when he didn't)', the data suggests they actually can get away with it.
Black Americans are treated worse than the US legal system than White Americans. That's what the numbers say.
Heck, think for a moment how both police officers could get killed because a black suspect is thinking, 'Crap, he's going to kill me,' because police officers in that area have killed people just like them and gotten away with it with their family seeing the killer continuing to walk around on the beat. Thus the suspect flees or fights back, because they really are afraid they're going to get killed and recent experience suggests they have a reason to be afraid. Which, bare minimum, makes it muuuuch more likely for them to run.
If the legal system doesn't treat a section of a popular as mattering, of giving them justice if they are killed, of ignoring blatant targeting of groups, then it's not good at all. The police treating the populace as an enemy rather than who they're supposed to protect is one of the worst things a police department can do, and it's all too common.
Originally posted by psmith81992
I'm sorry, I had to laugh when I read that because it appeared you were being serious. If you can tell me their actual goals and then show me how they are going about achieving them (in a hilariously incompetent manner), I'll follow it closer.
Goal one, bring to light the police treatment of black Americans in the US.
Oh hey, they're doing that, to great success. The Department of Justice launched a major investigation of Ferguson, here's a national news article tracking arrests after the report, and now when new incidents happen, they're actually making the news rather than being brushed to the side. The mere fact that black death by police hands and other incidents of abhorrent behavior are being reported on is a major improvement.
The methods, of course, being peaceful protests, calls to social media, and using that to draw attention to the subject.
Originally posted by psmith81992
Step one should be to reduce black on black crime, which makes cop treatment look irrelevant. Step two should be to reduce violent protests, which makes their cause look silly.
More thorough teaching of police officers, as well as reinstating a trust in the police force in black communities, is a huge part of reducing black on black crime (I do agree with you that there are other parts that are also important, like ending the war on drugs, weakening the prison industry, offering good and safe primary educational opportunities, extending social welfare, furthering black people in secondary education and the job market).
Additionally though, police officers are public servants, we the people pay their salary, we can and should work on the issue where we can have the biggest direct impact.
I don't get it. Aren't they pacifist? How come pacifism is made look silly by violence?
@Bardock
Are you positing that law enforcement is responsible for the ongoing black on black crimes or just that teaching police officers and gaining trust will reduce black on black crime? Because if it's the former, I completely disagree. Black on black crime is predominantly responsible for black deaths, which is why I find #blacklivesmatter to be a little silly. Focus on stopping murders of your own group before expanding awareness and blame on others.
Originally posted by psmith81992
Step one should be to reduce black on black crime, which makes cop treatment look irrelevant. Step two should be to reduce violent protests, which makes their cause look silly.
Best way to reduce black on black crime:
Give black communities reliable, trustworthy police forces they can report crime to without worrying about something happening to them.
That's one of the side-effects of bad policing. It makes the people vulnerable not just to the police, but other crime. It absolutely has to do with cop treatment.
Originally posted by Q99
Best way to reduce black on black crime:Give black communities reliable, trustworthy police forces they can report crime to without worrying about something happening to them.
That's one of the side-effects of bad policing. It makes the people vulnerable not just to the police, but other crime. It absolutely has to do with cop treatment.
That's blaming the police for black on black crime instead of the communities. I think it has little to do with police treatment or even involvement. Reducing poverty and fighting the drug problem are how you reduce black on black crime, keeping the focus on those actually responsible.
Originally posted by psmith81992
They only pretend to be pacifists@Bardock
Are you positing that law enforcement is responsible for the ongoing black on black crimes or just that teaching police officers and gaining trust will reduce black on black crime? Because if it's the former, I completely disagree. Black on black crime is predominantly responsible for black deaths, which is why I find #blacklivesmatter to be a little silly. Focus on stopping murders of your own group before expanding awareness and blame on others.
I am saying both, that the historic and continued racism in the police force is one, but not the sole, cause of black on black crime, and curbing it is one lever that can be used to decrease that crime.
Originally posted by Bardock42
I am saying both, that the historic and continued racism in the police force is one, but not the sole, cause of black on black crime, and curbing it is one lever that can be used to decrease that crime.
How does historic and continued (although much much reduced despite people saying otherwise) racism contributes to black on black crime?
Originally posted by psmith81992
How does historic and continued (although much much reduced despite people saying otherwise) racism contributes to black on black crime?
If black communities don't have a reliable, trustworthy police force they can report crime to without worrying about something happening to them, it destroys much of the benefits that a police force actually has. Therefore crime can thrive.
Originally posted by Bardock42
I'll paraphrase Q99If black communities don't have a reliable, trustworthy police force they can report crime to without worrying about something happening to them, it destroys much of the benefits that a police force actually has. Therefore crime can thrive.
Oh I see, ok granted but to me that's a small portion of black on black crime as opposed to poverty and drug use.
Originally posted by psmith81992
Oh I see, ok granted but to me that's a small portion of black on black crime as opposed to poverty and drug use.
It's easier to fix than poverty and drugs though.
Unrelated note: Is it true that poor kids get out of the school system much more than middle class kids? I might be confusing european stats with those from the US so I better check my dubious claims with you guys.
Originally posted by Bentley
It's easier to fix than poverty and drugs though.Unrelated note: Is it true that poor kids get out of the school system much more than middle class kids? I might be confusing european stats with those from the US so I better check my dubious claims with you guys.
I think you are right. A good school system has a bigger impact on children from poorer or dysfunctional household.
Originally posted by psmith81992There are many factors contributing to poor communities that lead to large crime rates. A lot of them tend to be interconnected.
Oh I see, ok granted but to me that's a small portion of black on black crime as opposed to poverty and drug use.
One of the pillars of keeping safe communities though is having a reliable police force the community can trust.