Originally posted by dadudemonI wouldn't put it so far down the list. And I would actually put Poverty/Education at the one two spots.
Are we arguing that a trustworthy, unbiased, hard-working police force is essential to stop black on black crime (and that this point is standing in contrast to PSmith's notion that poverty and drugs are the real causes of black on black crime)?If so, I'd list these, in this order:
1. Subculture.
2. Education.
3. Poverty.
4. Drugs.
...102. Reliable, trustworthy, unbiased, hard-working police force.
At the risk of cherry picking, some communities don't even have police and they have absurdly low crime rates. I don't see police as being a major factor in stopping black on black crime. In sociology, it is always discussed as a poverty, education, and culture issue, not a "law enforcement" issue.
It seemed easy to understand to me.
Anyways I wouldn't put it so far down the list because even in those communities you say don't have police they still actually do. And often times those communities can still expect quick responses to their pleas for help. Most of the time they can expect appropriate responses as well.
Originally posted by psmith81992
I'll argue that most black people don't understand what the black lives matter movement is about either.
As a white person who has no problem saying Black Lives Matter and who sees the difference between that and All Lives Matter, I really don't understand why it's so difficult for so many other white people.
Originally posted by Newjak
I wouldn't put it so far down the list. And I would actually put Poverty/Education at the one two spots.
My conclusion is based off the Hispanic population which is, mostly, as poor or poorer and less educated than the black population, in the US. Yet they commit far less crime, per capita, and are healthier than even the white population. Clearly, subculture has a major player in these differences (because, usually, education and income are the big one-two for crime...except in this weird scenario).
Of course a sociologist (a serious one without a huge agenda for or against black people) is going to single out subculture as a major contributing factor to these differences.
Edit - Thanks for responding to my post. It seems people in this thread, in general, just want to continue in the circular arguments and pissing matches instead of talking about this topic in a more direct way.
Black lives matter, for sure. All humans lives matter. Black lives seem to matter less to American law enforcement when compared to other race demographics, though. And there is still systematic discrimination in corporate america against the black community. Clearly, black lives matter quite a bit.
I think the same things about "All lives matter" being stated in this thread are the same reasons why it is wrong to say all lives matter. I'll explain that, later. I have an interview to go to. And visio diagrams to make.
Originally posted by Omega Vision
And you can make that argument, it doesn't change the fact that black lives matter is necessary to force the issue, whereas White Lives Matter is at best a well-meaning bromide to avoid talking about real inequality.As a white person who has no problem saying Black Lives Matter and who sees the difference between that and All Lives Matter, I really don't understand why it's so difficult for so many other white people.
I agree.
That wasn't my point though. I was attacking the attempts of some to try and dismiss the issue.
fair enough
Originally posted by dadudemonNo problem I saw something worth replying to but I almost missed it because I didn't see your edit.
My conclusion is based off the Hispanic population which is, mostly, as poor or poorer and less educated than the black population, in the US. Yet they commit far less crime, per capita, and are healthier than even the white population. Clearly, subculture has a major player in these differences (because, usually, education and income are the big one-two for crime...except in this weird scenario).Of course a sociologist (a serious one without a huge agenda for or against black people) is going to single out subculture as a major contributing factor to these differences.
Edit - Thanks for responding to my post. It seems people in this thread, in general, just want to continue in the circular arguments and pissing matches instead of talking about this topic in a more direct way.
Black lives matter, for sure. All humans lives matter. Black lives seem to matter less to American law enforcement when compared to other race demographics, though. And there is still systematic discrimination in corporate america against the black community. Clearly, black lives matter quite a bit.
I think the same things about "All lives matter" being stated in this thread are the same reasons why it is wrong to say all lives matter. I'll explain that, later. I have an interview to go to. And visio diagrams to make.
Also to be fair I never said Culture does not play a part but I don't think it plays the same as Poverty/Education. On the whole the Hispanic/Latino population doesn't have the same violent crime offenses but the numbers I think equalize when you look at poor hispanic urban areas and poor black urban areas.
Now that being said Culture is extremely important although I don't think it is just black sub culture and more of an American Culture. We tell people that if they are solely responsible for their own success and that if they are not achieving success there is something wrong with them. After all anyone in America can become rich with the right work ethic and if you're struggling to make ends meat it is because you're not doing it right. At least I feel that is a major driving force in Amercia's Culture.
Now you get to the Ghettos. The poor areas where the education is not up to par. What happens is that these people are taught America's version of success growing up but the only people supposedly being successful are a few that make Pro Sports teams or the Gangsters/Criminal Organizations. After all when your parents are having trouble getting food on the table but that guy dealing on the corner is rolling around with thousand dollar chains it's easy to see why a poor child is more likely to be drawn to that lifestyle. Because it matches our overall culture's idea of success.
Now I place Economics/Education higher than Culture because even within the same cultural elements we see in higher income higher educated neighborhoods a stark decline in organized/violent criminal elements.
Originally posted by Robtard
Sure, black civilians do kill other black civilians, that's a problem too. It doesn't do away with the other though.
It's a problem nobody wants to talk about as much..with excuses like "well, it's easier to get the cops to change".
Originally posted by Omega Vision
[B]And you can make that argument, it doesn't change the fact that black lives matter is necessary to force the issue,
But then they need to start using this to force more issues besides just police brutality then.
Originally posted by Surtur
It's a problem nobody wants to talk about as much..with excuses like "well, it's easier to get the cops to change".But then they need to start using this to force more issues besides just police brutality then.
The hashtag and social media movement are aimed at bringing the message to a broad (read: white) audience. If you're talking about stopping gang violence and other serious problems, that kind of campaign isn't as effective.
Really don't understand why you're so resistant to having an earnest conversation about the problems black people face as a result of systemic discrimination and white complacency.
Originally posted by Omega Vision
Like what issues?The hashtag and social media movement are aimed at bringing the message to a broad (read: white) audience. If you're talking about stopping gang violence and other serious problems, that kind of campaign isn't as effective.
Really don't understand why you're so resistant to having an earnest conversation about the problems black people face as a result of systemic discrimination and white complacency.
Yup enlightened.
Now I wonder how long it would take black culture to admit their own failures?
Lol, pwnd everyone.