Originally posted by Newjak
Also to be fair I never said Culture does not play a part but I don't think it plays the same as Poverty/Education. On the whole the Hispanic/Latino population doesn't have the same violent crime offenses but the numbers I think equalize when you look at poor hispanic urban areas and poor black urban areas.
If that's the case then I concede the point and you're right. I'll do some searching to see if that's what happens with the numbers. I'll be busy at work, today, but I'll try to get back with some results later today.
Originally posted by dadudemon
I think the same things about "All lives matter" being stated in this thread are the same reasons why it is wrong to say all lives matter. I'll explain that, later. I have an interview to go to. And visio diagrams to make.
Here's what I meant by that.
I'll abbreviate to ALM and BLM.
People saying that ALM is missing the point of BLM because black issues are difficult, hard, etc. are making the same mistake that they accuse the ALM people of. I don't believe it is intentional. But, basically, no one in the ALM group things black issues should be marginalized. But they don't think one particular race is more important than the other. Saying that the ALM group is missing the point is also missing the point of the ALM group.
I still think BLM is a shitty slogan/motto. It is intentionally divisive. It is also why I want feminism to abandon "feminism" as a label.
Originally posted by dadudemon
Here's what I meant by that.I'll abbreviate to ALM and BLM.
People saying that ALM is missing the point of BLM because black issues are difficult, hard, etc. are making the same mistake that they accuse the ALM people of. I don't believe it is intentional. But, basically, no one in the ALM group things black issues should be marginalized. But they don't think one particular race is more important than the other.
I don't think ALM is a group. I think ALM is a way to avoid the conversation.
Originally posted by Omega VisionWhether it's a group or not is irrelevant. I think the point should be to emphasize that all life matters, one subgroup isn't more special than another. But yes obviously creating ALM sends all the wrong messages.
Neither do BLM.I don't think ALM is a group. I think ALM is a way to avoid the conversation.
Originally posted by Bardock42
People that support "All Lives Matter" further marginalize black people whether that is their intention or not.
And that's the simple of the discussion. People like Bardock42 incorrectly believe any race is marginalized by statements of racial equality.
Seems odd that a racial equality statement is deemed politically incorrect, doesn't it? Very absurd.
Originally posted by dadudemon
But they don't. 🙂And that's the simple of the discussion. People like Bardock42 incorrectly believe any race is marginalized by statements of racial equality.
Seems odd that a racial equality statement is deemed politically incorrect, doesn't it? Very absurd.
Weak statements of racial equality used to drown out valid complaints about different experiences based on race do further marginalise these groups.
Also, the simple of this discussion is you.
Hehe
I just wish to these people all black lives mattered as opposed to just the black lives taken by white cops. I mean hell at the very least wait until you have more info before you protest a death. A protest can wait a few days in order to see if one is warranted, why is this difficult?
Also here is the problem with the BLM "movement": some people in it are pieces of utter shit. Some of them hate all cops. Did you hear what they were chanting after the death of that police officer? It was utterly disrespectful, and you know if cops began to chant disrespectful shit after a black guy was killed we'd have friggin Al Sharpton on a plane the next day to whichever city it happened in.
Originally posted by dadudemonI would normally agree with you except in the context of this case.
But they don't. 🙂And that's the simple of the discussion. People like Bardock42 incorrectly believe any race is marginalized by statements of racial equality.
Seems odd that a racial equality statement is deemed politically incorrect, doesn't it? Very absurd.
It seems that the bulk, or at least main, contributors to the AllLivesMatter movement have embraced this movement solely to attack, marginalize, or undermine the BlackLivesMatter movement.
The AllLivesMatter movement itself has obviously sprung up in some weird opposition to BlackLivesMatter. There is no debating that.
And in truth the AllLivesMatter movement makes me somewhat uneasy. And I shall explain why. Even if you think the topic BlackLivesMatter is taking on is trivial. Even if you think there are worse problems facing the black community that need to be addressed. The facts show that in the justice system in America there is an issue of racial bias against black people. From the odds a black person is killed by an officer, to odds of being profiled and stopped, to sentencing imbalance between whites and blacks for similar crimes.
By all accounts these are real problems facing the black community so by all accounts what BlackLivesMatter is trying to accomplish should be considered a good goal. Raising racial inequality awareness on black prejudice in the justice system.
Instead AllLivesMatter is trying to drown out that message and I don't understand why. They aren't trying to raise any other awareness about racial inequality. They only seem to exit to counter the BlackLivesMatter movement so that people that are against it have a motto to trivialize them.
Some examples that I think highlight my points are as follow.
Imagine someone going to an movement that's motto is equal pay for equal work for women and saying that's silly. I have a better motto let's say AllGendersMatter.
Another example is going to a Cancer Walk and telling the people there they should be ashamed of themselves. Why because all diseases matter and you tell them that they should be fighting to eradicate all diseases from the world.
Here's another. Imagine a rally to end Homelessness. You go up to their movement and say all people matter. Even those with homes so your movement to end homelessness is biased and you should spread my message instead.
Or someone going to a rally to raise awareness on the increased risk of HIV in the homosexual community and saying all sexual genders matter and this rally and movement should raise awareness on HIV for all sexual orientations and if they aren't they are bad.
I don't think any sane person would go to these other movements and say these things. They definitely wouldn't be embraced by the general public. So for the life of me I don't understand why the BlackLivesMatter movement seems to be the exception where we are willing as a group to say they are wrong wanting to spread a legit specific problem facing the black community. It's just odd.
Originally posted by SurturTo be fair in any movement you're going to have bad apples. Heck there were pieces of utter shit in the civil rights movements of the 60s. There were pieces of shit in India's quest to gain sovereignty.
I just wish to these people all black lives mattered as opposed to just the black lives taken by white cops. I mean hell at the very least wait until you have more info before you protest a death. A protest can wait a few days in order to see if one is warranted, why is this difficult?Also here is the problem with the BLM "movement": some people in it are pieces of utter shit. Some of them hate all cops. Did you hear what they were chanting after the death of that police officer? It was utterly disrespectful, and you know if cops began to chant disrespectful shit after a black guy was killed we'd have friggin Al Sharpton on a plane the next day to whichever city it happened in.
Here's my problem. If you claim ALM avoids the discussion, BLM takes on the "look at me" attitude. At that point, you might as well have all the minorities create a movement. We don't need a BLM just like we don't need an ALM. We know black lives matter, we know all lives matter. Anything else is just desperately reaching for attention.
Originally posted by psmith81992This is my problem right here. BLM is taking on a look at me attitude. That is how movements work. They try to DRAW ATTENTION to a problem by drawing attention to themselves so that other people will see what they are moving for. Also not all minorities are facing the same justice inequality in America as the black community is.
Here's my problem. If you claim ALM avoids the discussion, BLM takes on the "look at me" attitude. At that point, you might as well have all the minorities create a movement. We don't need a BLM just like we don't need an ALM. We know black lives matter, we know all lives matter. Anything else is just desperately reaching for attention.
And it doesn't matter if you FEEL there should not be a BLM movement. That's not how America works. All that matters is they feel that the movement is needed. It just so happens in this case that BLM is actually protesting a legit issue where Blacks face racial prejudice in the justice system. That's just statistics at this point that shows a problem.
And they ARE trying to desperately reach for attention to show that problem.
So once again I don't see how this movement is different then other special case movements out there that try to show awareness on a topic. Cancer, poverty, gender inequality, or movements designed to show increased risk of issues within specific communities. I don't understand why we are treating this one differently than the hundreds, maybe thousands, of other groups that exist like this.
Originally posted by psmith81992
Here's my problem. If you claim ALM avoids the discussion, BLM takes on the "look at me" attitude. At that point, you might as well have all the minorities create a movement. We don't need a BLM just like we don't need an ALM. We know black lives matter, we know all lives matter. Anything else is just desperately reaching for attention.
We know that statistically black lives do not matter as much as white lives to police officers in the US.
Originally posted by Bardock42
We know that statistically black lives do not matter as much as white lives to police officers in the US.
That's a very general statement regarding the entirety of law enforcement, instead of the small minority. And the police force does not constitute the majority of society.
People have a hard time refuting this.