Black Lives Matter vs All Lives Matter

Originally posted by Bardock42
Weak statements of racial equality used to drown out valid complaints about different experiences based on race do further marginalise these groups.

Thanks for pointing out a red herring.

Do you have something relevant to point out, though?

I mean, I haven't seen a single person who is about "All lives matter" who wants to:

1. Marginalize black issues.
2. Be racist.

The entire point of their opposition is that there are issues with many people not just black people.

But, I have seen plenty of racism from the BLM movement who are:

1. Racist.
2. Violent.
3. Supporting violence against police.

I'll write a post with the "5 paragraph meal analogy" that turns that analogy on its head to demonstrate the problem with BLM and decrying ALM.

Your liberal pendulum has swung so far left that you're now far right. Sometimes, you can be too politically correct that you're not longer being politically correct.

BLM chants:

"pigs in a blanket, fry em' like bacon"

BLM movement is racist.

Denounce it. Stop being a libtard. Jump on the ALM movement and target black issues, Native American issues, Hispanics issues, etc. Choose which ones you want to focus on helping.

Personally, my charity contributions with United Way (this program doesn't throw money at them. They provide food, housing, daycare, and employment assistance(and other things I'm forgetting)) are going towards single, poor, mothers. Among this particular demographic, blacks and Hispanics are disproportionately represented.

What are you doing to show that black lives actually matter, buddy bro? 🙂

Whether people want to marginalise black people or be racist doesn't matter, by perpetuating the "All Lives Matter" tag line they do and are both those things.

Originally posted by Newjak
I don't think any sane person would go to these other movements and say these things. They definitely wouldn't be embraced by the general public. So for the life of me I don't understand why the BlackLivesMatter movement seems to be the exception where we are willing as a group to say they are wrong wanting to spread a legit specific problem facing the black community. It's just odd.

The BLM movement has lots of really shitty racism and violence in it. As many as 2/3 of the black people do not support or directly oppose BLM.

By the numbers:

"Thirty-one percent (31%) of black voters say black lives matter is closest to their own views, but just nine percent (9%) of whites and 10% of other minority voters agree. Eighty-one percent (81%) of whites and 76% of other minority voters opt instead for all lives matter, and 64% of blacks agree. - See more at: http://newsbusters.org/blogs/nb/tom-blumer/2015/08/23/barely-news-two-thirds-blacks-prefer-all-lives-matter-over-black#sthash.FvhNvofs.dpuf"

A comfortable majority of blacks support the ALM movement.

As well as all other racial demographics.

Also, do you support the BLM group? If so, what do you think about their more violent and racist elements?

Originally posted by Bardock42
Whether people want to marginalise black people or be racist doesn't matter, by perpetuating the "All Lives Matter" tag line they do and are both those things.

So basically DDM destroyed you and this was your rebuttal?

Originally posted by Bardock42
Whether people want to marginalise black people or be racist doesn't matter, by perpetuating the "All Lives Matter" tag line they do and are both those things.

This is an untrue statement.

Here's a reword that accurately states this:

"Stating that black people are marginalized by the All Lives Matter idea is a red herring.* But supporting a group that has pervasively documented racial violence and racism tied to it - Black Lives Matter - is definitely racist or ignorant (chose one)."

*Stating the All Lives Matter is racist and marginalizes black people is like stating tax breaks for all Petroleum Companies financially hurts Oil Companies. It's backwards and asinine bullshit that requires a full head-in-ass insertion to justify.

Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
So basically DDM destroyed you and this was your rebuttal?

Yeah, pretty much. It completely dodged all the points and just restated his previous words.

Like many people besides me have stated. "Black Lives Matter" directly tries to address an inequality that exists in society, the "All Lives Matter" crowd is a reaction to the former group, that achieves nothing but to silence the people that speak out about the problems. So whether the people perpetuating it are well intentioned, or maliciously know what they are doing, is irrelevant. When the Black Lives Matter movement is brought up, anyone that cares for true equality, should refuse to give the diversion tactic of "All Lives Matter" any regard or time.

Again, if the black lives matter really did address that inequality, then every "unequal" group should go out and do the same. We don't have 20+ ###Livesmatter groups out there because we know that inequality exists and we don't need a hashtag reminder.

A lot of people are unaware or don't care about the extent that the inequality exists. White people particularly can live their whole lives under the assumption that police treats everyone fair and equally. Additionally other marginalised groups DO have their own movements (many own movements) to campaign and lobby for them...

Originally posted by Bardock42
Like many people besides me have stated. "Black Lives Matter" directly tries to address an inequality that exists in society, the "All Lives Matter" crowd is a reaction to the former group, that achieves nothing but to silence the people that speak out about the problems. So whether the people perpetuating it are well intentioned, or maliciously know what they are doing, is irrelevant. When the Black Lives Matter movement is brought up, anyone that cares for true equality, should refuse to give the diversion tactic of "All Lives Matter" any regard or time.

You're literally just repeating the same things you stated before but with more words. Here, I'll sum up your point: "I believe ALM marginalizes BLM."

There, no need to state it again.

And you're still ignoring all the other points I brought up.

Originally posted by dadudemon
*Stating the All Lives Matter is racist and marginalizes black people is like stating tax breaks for all Petroleum Companies financially hurts Oil Companies. It's backwards and asinine bullshit that requires a full head-in-ass insertion to justify.

This is a faulty analogy. A more correct one would be that

"Interjecting 'All Companies Matter' in a hearing on whether Petroleum Companies should get subsidies after a spokesperson has stated that 'Petroleum companies matter to the US economy" hurts the case of helping Petroleum Companies by switching the issue at hand with a meaningless platitude in the particular context"

Originally posted by Bardock42
A lot of people are unaware or don't care about the extent that the inequality exists. White people particularly can live their whole lives under the assumption that police treats everyone fair and equally. Additionally other marginalised groups DO have their own movements (many own movements) to campaign and lobby for them...

There should be a poll out there, shouldn't there?

Something like, "Do you feel black people are unfairly targeted/stopped/detained/arrested by police compared to other races?"

Then compare those responses with reality. Do most white people think "yes" to that questio? If so, you're point is wrong. If not, then you're point is right.

If such a poll doesn't exist, then you're only stating things that are or are not true.

Personally, I don't think any of the white people I associate with would claim that white people and black people are stopped/detained/arrested/etc. at the same rates. In fact, it is so commonly known and understood by both races (white and black) that both joke about how absurd/stupid it is.

You may have to look under a rock to find the white person you describe, Bardock42.

Even if most people would answer yes to such a poll, there is a difference between knowing this when prompted and actually having internalized it or even understanding the extent to which it is the case.

Originally posted by Bardock42
This is a faulty analogy. A more correct one would be that

"Interjecting 'All Companies Matter' in a hearing on whether Petroleum Companies should get subsidies after a spokesperson has stated that 'Petroleum companies matter to the US economy" hurts the case of helping Petroleum Companies by switching the issue at hand with a meaningless platitude in the particular context"

Nope, that's a faulty analogy (yours). I literally just replaced the two nouns in your point with two nouns.

The only thing I have to do is find two related nouns where one set is a subset of the other. Finding two nouns that fit that criteria satisfies the point of the analogy.

Also, your new analogy fails to capture the situation, as well.

Here's an accurate version of your new analogy:

"Subsidies are up for the Petroleum industry. No limits were put on to which Petroleum organizations the subsidies can apply because everyone gets them. But, for some weird reason, Oil Companies want to draw attention to the fact that they need subsidies. Other Petroleum Companies indicate that everyone will get subsidies and to stop burning down the other Oil companies. "

Originally posted by dadudemon
Nope, that's a faulty analogy (yours). I literally just replaced the two nouns in your point with two nouns.

The only thing I have to do is find two related nouns where one set is a subset of the other. Finding two nouns that fit that criteria satisfies the point of the analogy.

By disregarding the context. You are right that what you said is syntactically similar, but it's not an adequate analogy of reality.

Originally posted by dadudemon
There should be a poll out there, shouldn't there?

Something like, "Do you feel black people are unfairly targeted/stopped/detained/arrested by police compared to other races?"

Then compare those responses with reality. Do most white people think "yes" to that questio? If so, you're point is wrong. If not, then you're point is right.

If such a poll doesn't exist, then you're only stating things that are or are not true.

I guess lets go to the polls then:

http://www.delaware1059.com/blog/post.php?postid=591

58 percent of whites said race had nothing to do with how police across the country decide to use deadly force, while 85 percent of blacks thought police were more likely to use deadly force against black people.

Wow...white people really are clueless...and your anecdotal evidence, once again, is meaningless

Originally posted by Bardock42
Even if most people would answer yes to such a poll, there is a difference between knowing this when prompted and actually having internalized it or even understanding the extent to which it is the case.

And what is that difference?

Speak more specifically on the issues, Bardock42. Don't keep make ambiguous statement after ambiguous statement. Actually talk about the issues. Get out of that word game comfort zone. 🙂

Wow...white people really are clueless...and your anecdotal evidence, once again, is meaningless

How does it disagree? It says 58% of White people don't view this as an issue, I've been telling dadudemon that I think most White people don't view this as an issue...

Do you mean that I wish more white people would agree with my POV (and the statistical reality)? Of course I would....

The poll seems to suggest that B42's point was correct. Maths and such.

Originally posted by Bardock42
I guess lets go to the polls then:

http://www.delaware1059.com/blog/post.php?postid=591

Wow...white people really are clueless...and your anecdotal evidence, once again, is meaningless

"58 percent of whites said race had nothing to do with how police across the country decide to use deadly force,"

Huh?

"...deadly force..."

Oh. There it is.

The red herring.

Let's requote my post. Let's see if you actually captured my point:

"Do you feel black people are unfairly targeted/stopped/detained/arrested by police compared to other races?"

You didn't capture my point. But you knew that.

And your poll can be pointing to another issue: that blacks have a significantly higher distrust of law enforcement compared to other race demographics (this is true as I've talked about and cited, before).

Edit - I concede the point. You myopically focused on my anecdote as being the issue, however. You wanted to prove something wrong so badly (because I set up a very easy point for you to make...it's not hard to google for these types of things) but you just failed to contribute to the topic by making vague statements. Good job, by the way, on supporting your position. 🙂