Starkiller vs. Vitiate

Started by carthage11 pages
Starkiller is alone in this, he doesn't have anyone save his ass with a surprise attack. If he tries to block Vitiate's lightning he will suffer the same fate as Revan, Starkiller's tutaminis isn't better than Revans.

You can keep repeating that and it doesn't make it true. Vitiate's unamped lightning isn't that powerful, and Starkiller's barrier withstood heat comparable to the outer layer of a star and encompassed half of a frigate. Starkiller's force barrier > Revan's tutaminus and Vitiate's lightning.

Originally posted by carthage
You can keep repeating that and it doesn't make it true. Vitiate's unamped lightning isn't that powerful, and Starkiller's barrier withstood heat comparable to the outer layer of a star and encompassed half of a frigate. Starkiller's force barrier > Revan's tutaminus and Vitiate's lightning.

You realize what an @ss of an argument is this?

Force barrier does not blocks Force Lightning effectively, period. No matter how strong a Force barrier is, Force Lightning will go right through it.

There are only two effective ways to block Force Lightning:

1. Lightsaber-based technique
2. Tutaminis-based technique (raw power)

And for your kind information, blocking Force Lightning through Tutaminis or raw power is one of the most difficult feats a Force-user can perform in the history of the mythos. This is why you don't see many Force-users pulling a Yoda against Force Lightning.

In-fact, it was Yoda's ability to block Force Lightning barehanded that set him apart from others in the matter of raw power.

Once Vitiate goes ballistic on Starkiller with Force Lightning, good luck to Starkiller at that point.

Actually, you're both wrong there.

Lightning as a means of directing energy in SW is just really disproportionate to TK, energy-weapons etc, as ChaosTheory pointed out a little while ago. Ashing someone with Lightning is a big deal but that kind of power output gets shat on by your standard laser cannon to say nothing of orbital bombardment, which Force users have tanked.

The only justification for FL retaining merit is that it's special and eats away at someone's life force, I guess.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Actually, you're both wrong there.

Yes, Darth Nyriss attempted to block Force Lightning with a Force Barrier. And guess what? it failed.

A Force-user might be able to shrug-off Force Lightning to a certain level from basic defensive applications but these are not effective means to prevent this power from breaching through their defenses for long. In many examples, a Force-user is forced to use a Lightsaber for protection against this kind of power.

Darth Nihl killed Kol Skywalker with a powerful blast of Force Lightning. Do you guys think that Skywalker was weak by any stretch of imagination? It was that Skywalker couldn't muster sufficient defenses to counter Force Lightning at that moment.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Yes, Darth Nyriss attempted to block Force Lightning with a Force Barrier. And guess what? it failed.

A Force-user might be able to shrug-off Force Lightning to a certain level from basic defensive applications but these are not effective means to prevent this power from breaching through their defenses if the said power for long.

Nox blocked lightning with a barrier on Corellia. Think that's the only time I've seen it though.

Actually Force Barrier can be used to defend against Force Lighting...example.

Tesla cut off the flow of Force-lightning from his body, but it had little, if any, effect. Suddenly the corridor was filled with a dozen random lightning strikes, then twice that many. They were advancing on him in a trenchant storm, eating up the passageway before him. He couldn't see what had happened to the boy; his figure was lost in the erratic pulses of light. Tesla threw up a defensive barrier and backed swiftly away from the advancing lightning. Surely, with its motive energy cut off, it would soon fade.

He kept moving, staying just ahead of the scaring, draining discharges until he was certain the exit must be directly behind him. He glanced over his shoulder. It was not. In fact, only a meter or two farther along the passage, what had been an open passageway seemed to end in a pocket of charged and warped air.

He hesitated, heart thudding. How was this possible? The interstice in which he stood was formed by a cancellation effect. The two fields' overlap was unstable, but the instability was linear. There was no way the two opposing fields could meet and meld in that way, no power that could...

He peered beyond the barrier, through the fluctuations in the cul-de-sac. Beyond them, out in the open debris field, he saw a lone figure standing atop a slab of ferrocrete. A figure with a bright mane of pale hair, rippling and warping as if viewed beneath the surface of a storm-tossed sea.

The dance of energy on the left side of his face alerted Tesla to the fact that he had hesitated too long. He had barely enough time to stiffen his Force shield against the lightning before it struck, exploding the tiny pocket of relative calm in which he stood..

- Taken from Courscant Nights 3: Patterns of The Force

Inquisitor Tesla defends himself from Force Lighting using Force Barrier.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Nox blocked lightning with a barrier on Corellia. Think that's the only time I've seen it though.

It must be a technique or something. I have not played Sith Inquisitor story so I cannot comment on this right now.

Originally posted by Zenwolf
Actually Force Barrier can be used to defend against Force Lighting...example.

Inquisitor Tesla defends himself from Force Lighting using Force Barrier.


It can be used for this purpose but it is not an effective defensive option.

Force Lightning expressions also vary in intensity and potency, depending upon the power and mindset of the practitioner.

Stopping a Force Lightning expression of an avatar of the Dark Side such as Vitiate with a conventional defensive application (e.g. Force Barrier) is really out of question.

Meetra defended from Force Lightning with a Force Barrier:

"Dazed, he looked up just in time to see another bolt of violet lightning catch Meetra in the chest. Like Nyriss, she threw up a barrier to save herself from the worst of it, but she was still knocked from her feet."

--Star Wars: The Old Republic: Revan

Yes, she was thrown off her feet, but she defended herself from the more damaging effects, which is what matters.

Nyriss' barrier didn't work because it was too weak; Meetra's barrier partially stopped the lightning shot at her.

Regardless, Galen's tutaminis will probably be the correct tool to use, yeah.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
It must be a technique or something. I have not played Sith Inquisitor story so I cannot comment on this right now.

You can always check out my respect thread, but heres the video (5.55)

YouTube video

I would agree with you though, that it's a very ineffective defense thats not as good as a lightsaber or tutaminis.

Carths wrong though, so it doesn't matter. But nothing he says does so thats not new.

Considering you haven't disproven anything, lmfao

Originally posted by Nephthys
His TK served it's purpose in putting Revan in position to get TP'd.

Proof that that was its purpose? Vitiate having to use a charged TK wave on a dark side nexus to stop Revan's bumrush is pretty lame. 😬

Originally posted by Nephthys
Vitiate used much of his strength to try and take over Revans mind, but I don't see how that implies anything. All it does it explain why Vitiate didn't defend against Revan's counterattack and indicate Vitiate's desire to again dominate Revan.

That Vitiate "used much of his strength" against Revan not only proves that the techniques requires "much of his strength" but also proves that Vitiate was "using much of his strength" to stop Revan from the very beginning, which cripples your silly fantasy that Vitiate wasn't being serious lol.

The ideas are mutually exclusive.

Originally posted by Nephthys
You didn't even try to rebut my point that Vitiate used weak attacks on Revan afterwards, so that's cool with me.

There's nothing to rebut. That they weren't his absolute strongest charged attacks doesn't mean anything, anymore than a boxer throwing quick jabs versus wild haymakers at another boxer means that boxer A wasn't taking boxer B seriously. Especially when you consider the fact that two previous attacks by Vitiate that involved a lot of effort got him exactly nowhere. 👆

Originally posted by Nephthys
I've already established that Vitiate only hesitates to evaluate Meetra, as the novel directly states. It means nothing and you know it does.

That Vitiate continued to hesitate and didn't attack until after Scourge whittled down the team and Revan was distracted means everything and you know it does. 😉

Originally posted by Nephthys
Scourges vision means nothing, as he states he was seeing every conceivable future, not what was likely.

And there is no indication in the text as to which outcome was more likely than other. All it says is that he saw some in which Vitiate was victorious and others in which he wasn't.

Originally posted by Nephthys
At the end he see's the true future and knows that they cannot beat Vitiate.

Cannot/could not is very different from will not/did not.

Where did Scourge ever say or muse that they "cannot" beat Vitiate?

Originally posted by Nephthys
Starkiller is alone in this, he doesn't have anyone save his ass with a surprise attack. If he tries to block Vitiate's lightning he will suffer the same fate as Revan, Starkiller's tutaminis isn't better than Revans.

Cool story, but you've failed utterly to establish any of this. 👆

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
It can be used for this purpose but it is not an effective defensive option.

Force Lightning expressions also vary in intensity and potency, depending upon the power and mindset of the practitioner.

Stopping a Force Lightning expression of an avatar of the Dark Side such as Vitiate with a conventional defensive application (e.g. Force Barrier) is really out of question.

I was merely saying since you said Force Barrier wasn't viable in defending against Force Lighting, it is as shown.

Tesla was pretty powerful actually, just a side note figured I mention it.

Polling the audience here, but since apparently Scourge envisioning that someone else would ultimately defeat Vitiate means that no one else possibly can, I'm wondering if that logic applies to Sidious?

Only the Chosen One can kill Sidious, so does that mean that Sidious takes Nihilus and/or Abeloth and/or the Son and/or Bane solely by the outcome of prophecy?

mmm

Im gonna address this one last(I hope) time, Tempest.

Lets go through this again and you tell me where you disagree(or think the text disagrees).

Vitiate was put on his ass at first because he had his guard down. He had his guard down cause he diverted much of his strength on dominating Revan's mind. He diverted much of his strength on that because he assumed he could do it casually but when his attack faced resistance, he had to invest more and more into his TP attack which failed due to reasons that has no relevance when comparing power.

Choosing to take care of someone by dominating their minds instead of fighting them is an indication of superiority as it is a way of dealing with them without even fighting and Revan survived the attack only because he had mastered a technique based on their past encounter. Vitiate is defined by fear of death and avoiding risk so if he attempted such an attack which eventually made him lower his guard, he only did it cause he believed Revan was not a real challenge for him.

"The Emperor rolled over, lifted himself up on one knee, and his hands flew forward as he hurtled a bolt of dark side lightning at his enemy."

Hurtled is the key word there. A cocky TP attack followed by a hurtled attack shows that Vitiate still not going all out on Revan as it also shows that a hurtled attack was enough to stop Revan's charge and send him back.

At this point, we have a Vitiate who until a couple seconds ago believed that Revan was a weakling who could be taken care of without fighting and was sent back with a hurtled lightning attack. So it is only natural that he though 3 more of those small attacks would do the job.

Until this point, Vitiate's actions are not a representation of his true capabilities and after that point Vitiate instantly one-shots Revan.

This is an arena type all out no morals fight where both sides would unleash their full power and Vitiate is indeed more powerful than Galen. He won't finish him off as easily as Sidious did no doubt, but he will still win. 👆

A barrier strikes me as an inefficient defense against FL.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
A barrier strikes me as an inefficient defense against FL.

Other than the examples provided where barrier was used to deflect it? Lol.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Polling the audience here, but since apparently Scourge envisioning that someone else would ultimately defeat Vitiate means that no one else possibly can, I'm wondering if that logic applies to Sidious?

Only the Chosen One can kill Sidious, so does that mean that Sidious takes Nihilus and/or Abeloth and/or the Son and/or Bane solely by the outcome of prophecy?

mmm

Yes, absolutely.