Starkiller vs. Vitiate

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
I lol'ed to all the points above.

There is no such thing in the game.

Also, for the record, people who do the ToS OP still have to do the Forgotten Terrace mission. 👆

Well I'm pretty sure you are wrong.

No he's not.

That doesn't qualify him as an OP boss, kek.

Have you even ever ran an OP?

I never really asked why you think what you do since I don't really care.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
The Revan in SoR isn't that much, if at all, more powerful than the Revan in the novel.

He was restating a point brought up several times before you said anything.

Which, like I just said, is moot given your belief that Revan is more powerful than Vader, and no SoR Revan isn't leagues above the one seen in the novel, especially given him being in the center of a nexus. Take a chill pill and learn to read.

It's idotic when people say a massive timeskip doesn't change anything.

And, Revan didn't age physically a single day.

@ Tempest

For a guy who invested 10 years in these forums trying to create a Sidious alike image(which I would admire if you hadn't failed at pulling it off), you get ugly in debates way too fast. Its as if you are everything you say Neph is. 🙂

Originally posted by The_Tempest
[B] You should have indeed used better wording, but the bottom line is that even this doesn't affect the discussion either way. The fact of the matter is that Vitiate invested tremendous energy into neutralizing Revan from the onset. The notion that he didn't intend to do him physical harm is irrelevant {and also incorrect, since Vitiate's very first salvo was a charged TK attack} since the technique was employed to prevent a fight from ever occurring in the first place.

tl;dr: you've utterly failed to refute the fact that Vitiate was seeking to neutralize Revan from the beginning and employed tremendous energies to do so.

Believing oneself to be superior to one's opponent and believing that one's opponent isn't a threat aren't mutually exclusive. Not only can Vitiate still regard Revan as a threat and try to mindhack him, it might well explain why Vitiate opted to try it in the first place: to avoid a confrontation he might well lose. 👆

{Since apparently naked speculation is permissible here.}

Except the novel supports my "speculations" where yours just lack quality. 😉

You're assuming facts not in evidence. You're assuming that Vitiate opted for the mindhack because he felt Revan would be so easily dispatched. Not only is that contradicted by the text {the mindhack apparently requiring tremendous energy to employ}, but there's an alternative explanation:

Lets bring up some of the facts we know:

1) Vitiate, in another instance used a fraction of his power to mindrape Revan and Malak and it is confirmed that he has taken care of dozens of other Jedi that faced him with his TP.
2) Revan says this time he knows Vitiate's tactics and that he has a new technique that can help him resist Vitiate's TP which is something no other force user has achieved before.
3) Vitiate had already managed to overwhelm Revan with TP with a fraction of his power and he had no reason to believe Revan would be able to resist it this time.
4) Vitiate is defined by the fear of death and its stupid to think that an attack that exposes him to any kind of attack is his preferred attack especially since his lightning can get the same job done.

So mindhaxx doesn't take that much effort yet it did against Revan. Revan is also the only person who had a defense against it which was unknown to Vitiate which tells any intelligent person that Vitiate was caught unexacting and therefor it gave Revan a chance to harm Vitiate which is an opportunity that SK will not have here.

So my past speculations in this thread are proven by multiple sources and the story itself also supports it. Disagreeing at this point is simply ignoring evidence.

I'm beginning to doubt you can read. 😬

His opponent stood perfectly still, focusing and channeling his power. At the last possible instant, the Emperor unleashed a wave of energy that swept Revan off his feet and sent him flying backward.

Pretty straightforward, Sin.

Right, because Vitiate "focusing and channeling his power" and releasing the attack "at the last possible instant" to thwart Revan is indicative of... complete control and effortlessness.

Just when I think you couldn't possibly craft a dumber argument, you overachieve.

Uh huh. And how do you know the purpose of the attack wasn't to seriously injure or incapacitate?

Since my point is that Revan withstood 2 of Vitiate's 3 charged attacks and successfully evaded or deflected the rest and managed to put Vitiate on his ass twice, all of which the text supports, I think my compelling argument stands proudly erect.

And you're currently gagging on it.

Originally posted by Sinious
@ Tempest

For a guy who invested 10 years in these forums trying to create a Sidious alike image(which I would admire if you hadn't failed at pulling it off), you get ugly in debates way too fast. Its as if you are everything you say Neph is.

Hey, an inexorable element of that image involves taking dipshits like you to the curb for your inane opinions. It's not exactly my fault; you make the choice time and again to defend lame-ass characters like Vitiate and feel compelled to engage in revisionist history to do so. What follows is an inevitable consequence of your foolishness. excellent

Originally posted by Sinious
Legend's quote has actually done what I couldn't myself which is refuting everything you said about Vitiate's TP.

LeGenD's quote comes from an in-universe, fallible source. Vitiate's mindhaxx of Revan and Malak was the product of a trap and preparation. Not to mention the fact that the guy who actually wrote the goddamn book supports my opinion, which is why {again) my interpretation is infinitely more reliable and precise than your irretrievably biased fumblings.

Though I do appreciate the fact that you openly admit you couldn't refute any of my points. 👆

Originally posted by Sinious
LOL I never denied that.

Kinda makes this argument pointless when you don't deny that Vitiate tried to neutralize Revan from the beginning and dedicated tremendous energy to doing so.

Which is further evidence of the monumental stupidity you evince every time you enter the fray to defend this Sidious-wannabe.

Originally posted by Sinious
Except the novel supports my "speculations" where yours just lack quality.

Except it doesn't. If it does, you're welcome to quote the relevant passages. 😉

Originally posted by Sinious
I'd like to point to Legend's quote again.

And I'll just point again to the fact that Vitiate mindhacked Revan and Malak with ample time to prepare on a dark side nexus, as Revan expounds ad nauseam. I'll also refer you to the commentary from the hack who wrote this shit in the first place, who not-so-coincidentally agrees with me.

Does it perturb you that I grasp the full nature of Vitiate better than you ever will? mmm

Originally posted by Sinious
Lets bring up some of the facts we know:

1) Vitiate, in another instance used a fraction of his power to mindrape Revan and Malak and it is confirmed that he has taken care of dozens of other Jedi that faced him with his TP.

You mean Vitiate mindraped a Malak and Revan who were already on the precipice of the dark side... on a dark side nexus... with prep-time. 😂

Originally posted by Sinious
2) Revan says this time he knows Vitiate's tactics and that he has a new technique that can help him resist Vitiate's TP which is something no other force user has achieved before.

Uh-huh. And the text never specifies that this is what drove Vitiate to dedicate more energy to the attempt.

Originally posted by Sinious
3) Vitiate had already managed to overwhelm Revan with TP with a fraction of his power and he had no reason to believe Revan would be able to resist it this time.

Vitiate had prep-time before and Revan was already on the verge of dark side corruption. Per Revan, the text says Vitiate employed charged TK and charged TP to no effect. 😉

Originally posted by Sinious
4) Vitiate is defined by the fear of death and its stupid to think that an attack that exposes him to any kind of attack is his preferred attack especially since his lightning can get the same job done.

No one disputes that Vitiate was under the impression a charged TP attack would get the job done. The bottom line is that Vitiate employed charged attacks from the onset to neutralize Revan on a dark side nexus and failed the first 2 times. 👆

Originally posted by Sinious
So mindhaxx doesn't take that much effort yet it did against Revan. Revan is also the only person who had a defense against it which was unknown to Vitiate which tells any intelligent person that Vitiate was caught unexacting and therefor it gave Revan a chance to harm Vitiate which is an opportunity that SK will not have here.

It's amusing to see that all you're equipped with is naked speculation. All I'll point out to you, again, is the text where Vitiate employs charged attacks and fails and where the author agrees with me.

Originally posted by Sinious
So my past speculations in this thread are proven by multiple sources and the story itself also supports it. Disagreeing at this point is simply ignoring evidence.

Nah, your speculation is informed by more speculation. You offer nothing by way of concrete evidence and only offer interpretations which favor Vitiate but lack any stable foundation.

No one cares.

Originally posted by Sinious
Calm down pumpkin. When I first read it, I saw it as Vitiate preparing himself/getting in the mood to fight(or whatever) since he rarely gets off his ass to do anything let alone fight someone and then he simply waited for Revan to charge him for him to begin his attacks. I didn't pay much attention to it as I don't now since it has little significance. If its going to make you happy, I'll agree to accept however you see it.

We've already established that your reading comprehension leaves something to be desired. I accept your concession.

Maybe next time, you'll ease off the Vitiate wank and forgo the Hooked On Phonics experience. 😂

Originally posted by Sinious
Cause I never saw it as a charged attack but merely an attack that would give Vitiate the ideal distance for mindraping someone.

We've established that "what you see" is incredibly stupid. Maybe if you could learn to evaluate the text on its own merits rather than invent baseless bullshit to justify the failures of Vitiate, you'd have an easier time in this discussion. 👆

Originally posted by Sinious
And I've explained to you why the fight went that way even in this very post. You keep on yapping about how the fight went yet ignore the entirety of the dialogue in the novel and other sources. Your take on it is irrelevant when its already disproven. 👆

You've manufactured baseless and speculative explanations to justify why Vitiate performed so poorly against Revan. I can't stress enough the extent to which no one cares. Vitiate is inconsequential and your defense of him is even less meaningful. Every single point I've made is drawn directly from the source material, which is why the goddamn author supports it.

I like you, Sin, and you'll be a successful acolyte when you bend the knee. But the fact remains that every single time you defend this position, your cognitive functions drop to rival that of a celery stalk. Vitiate performed pretty lamely against Revan and them's the facts. Get over Vitiate, dude.

No one cares.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
LeGenD's quote comes from an in-universe, fallible source. Vitiate's mindhaxx of Revan and Malak was the product of a trap and preparation. Not to mention the fact that the guy who actually wrote the goddamn book supports my opinion, which is why {again) my interpretation is infinitely more reliable and precise than your irretrievably biased fumblings.

Newsflash: many Star Wars based sources are in-universe in design.

You are highlighting Revan's opinion; he claimed that Vitiate was 'prepared' for him and Malak, but his claim is ambiguous. Star Wars: The Old Republic: Encyclopedia presents a neutral perspective of this encounter and it refutes your position in this matter.

Moreover, as pointed out to you earlier, a single author does not defines Vitiate and his capabilities.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Vitiate performed pretty lamely against Revan and them's the facts. Get over Vitiate, dude.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Dismissing sources now when they prove you wrong? 😉

Newsflash: many Star Wars based sources are in-universe in design.

You are highlighting Revan's opinion; he claimed that Vitiate was 'prepared' for him and Malak, but his claim is ambiguous. Star Wars: The Old Republic: Encyclopedia presents a neutral perspective of this encounter and it refutes your position in this matter.

Moreover, as pointed out to you earlier, a single author does not defines Vitiate and his capabilities.

Uh-huh. So if I were to consult the SWTOR Encyclopedia, I wouldn't find a shred of evidence indicating that Vitiate led Malak and Revan into a trap?

Again, it's not my fault that the guy who literally wrote the book on Revan/Vitiate sides with me and not you guys. It's clearly just that when it comes to understanding Vitiate, I'm better than you.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Shall I remind you how the all-powerful Darth Sidious performed against Mace Windu and Yoda? And also the fact that Darth Vader lifted him and shoved him into a hole of his own creation aka Death Star?

Sidious's performances against those folks have absolutely nothing to do with a discussion that pertains to Vitiate's.

I didn't claim that my man Sheev is all-powerful. The SWTOR faction continues to boggle the mind with respect to its stupdiity tbh. ermm

Originally posted by The_Tempest

I like you, Sin, and you'll be a successful acolyte when you bend the knee. But the fact remains that every single time you defend this position, your cognitive functions drop to rival that of a celery stalk. Vitiate performed pretty lamely against Revan and them's the facts. Get over Vitiate, dude.

No one cares.

Meh, I trusted you as a potential master once, you betrayed me.

Not really. All I'm doing is putting myself in a riskier position than you cause I unlike you don't care about being proven wrong. And its only riskier cause you choose to ignore the bigger picture in debates just so you can win even though you actually know what you're saying is not true. It seems like every time we have a discussion, you get emotional and lose your cool. I'll reply to the rest of your post later as you're far from convincing with your infantile insults.

Originally posted by Sinious
Meh, I trusted you as a potential master once, you betrayed me.

Nah, you betrayed me by continuing to back Vitiate, Loser Supreme. uhuh

Originally posted by Sinious
Not really. All I'm doing is putting myself in a riskier position than you cause I unlike you don't care about being proven wrong. And its only riskier cause you choose to ignore the bigger picture in debates just so you can win even though you actually know what you're saying is not true. It seems like every time we have a discussion, you get emotional and lose your cool. I'll reply to the rest of your post later as you're far from convincing with your infantile insults.

😂

Dude, you back Vitiate because you have a not-so-secret crush on the character while grappling with the fact that he'll never, ever be as important or as powerful as Sheev. It's a textbook identity crisis and there's nothing I can do for you other than let events play out as they will. You'll either conform to the proper way of thinking or you won't and you'll be mocked and tormented as a result. Idgaf. It's a trial by fire. mmm

The fact that the author agrees with me is just proof enough that I'm vastly superior when it comes to interpreting text. You're just dumb on all things Vitiate.

I can't be blamed for it tbh. 😬

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Nah, you betrayed me by continuing to back Vitiate, Loser Supreme. uhuh

😂

Dude, you back Vitiate because you have a not-so-secret crush on the character while grappling with the fact that he'll never, ever be as important or as powerful as Sheev. It's a textbook identity crisis and there's nothing I can do for you other than let events play out as they will. You'll either conform to the proper way of thinking or you won't and you'll be mocked and tormented as a result. Idgaf. It's a trial by fire. mmm

The fact that the author agrees with me is just proof enough that I'm vastly superior when it comes to interpreting text. You're just dumb on all things Vitiate.

I can't be blamed for it tbh. 😬

Except you already know he's not even my favorite SW character when the character you think I want him to surpass is my favorite character of all times including every character from every literature work. If I were letting a SW character affect me in RL like that, it would most likely be a different one 👆

Your disagreement is no torment to me. Author's comments on e-mails are far more irrelevant than the quote I gave you. You're the one who loses control when Vitiate is being debated as proven by this thread. Nice try though. 👆

> ends previous debate because he got emotional
> accuses others of being emotional

You goofy. haermm

'Killer stomps tbh. stoned

When did I do that exactly? You childishly said you won and bounced. Hardly my fault it ended prematurely. 👆

I don't need to accuse you of anything bro. Your own posts prove how imbalanced you get every time Vitiate is mentioned. I've never ever done or said anything that would put us on bad terms other than wanking a character who isn't named Sidious. And that sole act is enough to turn you into an immature prick. It reached a point where I don't want to debate Vitiate just cause I don't want you to see it and have a bad day.

Btw, its amuses me to see you claim someone who Sidious can stomp is capable of defeating Vitiate where in many occasions you said Sidious vs Vitiate would be a good fight.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Uh-huh. So if I were to consult the SWTOR Encyclopedia, I wouldn't find a shred of evidence indicating that Vitiate led Malak and Revan into a trap?

If anybody deserves credit for being brave in this encounter, it is Vitiate.

The relevant novel offers an explanation of this encounter from the perspective of Revan [only]. Trap is a misleading word! Revan and Malak weren't lured into a place filled with actual traps or something, and neither Vitiate had armed himself with an artifact to use against the unsuspecting Jedi.

This was an honest confrontation in which Vitiate easily overwhelmed the assassins with his powers.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Again, it's not my fault that the guy who literally wrote the book on Revan/Vitiate sides with me and not you guys. It's clearly just that when it comes to understanding Vitiate, I'm better than you.

Originally posted by The_Tempest

Sidious's performances against those folks have absolutely nothing to do with a discussion that pertains to Vitiate's.

I didn't claim that my man Sheev is all-powerful. The SWTOR faction continues to boggle the mind with respect to its stupdiity tbh. ermm [/B]

Your argument is that Vitiate is a poor combatant or his performance was lame against Revan but your assessment is removed from truth. Revan's admirable performance against Vitiate is not indicative of Vitiate's lameness but proof of Revan's extraordinary power and command of the Force. In a span of centuries, a single opponent never managed to challenge Vitiate in the manner as Revan did.

Originally posted by Sinious
When did I do that exactly? You childishly said you won and bounced. Hardly my fault it ended prematurely. 👆

I don't need to accuse you of anything bro. Your own posts prove how imbalanced you get every time Vitiate is mentioned. I've never ever done or said anything that would put us on bad terms other than wanking a character who isn't named Sidious. And that sole act is enough to turn you into an immature prick. It reached a point where I don't want to debate Vitiate just cause I don't want you to see it and have a bad day.

Btw, its amuses me to see you claim someone who Sidious can stomp is capable of defeating Vitiate where in many occasions you said Sidious vs Vitiate would be a good fight.

👆

It's sad how Temps declined to the point where all he does now is throw a tantrum anytime he sees a post he doesn't like and chuckle over how "emotional" he's making everyone.

I don't even know what we're debating anymore.

Originally posted by Nephthys
👆

It's sad how Temps declined to the point where all he does now is throw a tantrum anytime he sees a post he doesn't like and chuckle over how "emotional" he's making everyone.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Darth Sidious was not going all-out against Starkiller in the canonized scenario because Sidious was interested in luring Starkiller to the Dark Side. In the alternate scenario, Sidious became serious and overwhelmed Starkiller with a single blast of Force Lightning.

Blast of FL combined with TK grip, yeah. I forgot that. Seems that Starkiller was temporary able to hold off Sidious' FL because Sidious wasn't going all-out or Starkiller gave much more then 100% from himself (just like Kenobi did against Maul bros).

Anyway, Vitiate comfortably then

Originally posted by Sinious
When did I do that exactly? You childishly said you won and bounced. Hardly my fault it ended prematurely. 👆

mmm

You
I'll reply to the rest of your post later as you're far from convincing with your infantile insults.

Actually, you promised a response that you've yet to provide and have spiraled rapidly into attempted trolling.

Which sincerely pleases me. excellent

Originally posted by Sinious
I don't need to accuse you of anything bro. Your own posts prove how imbalanced you get every time Vitiate is mentioned. I've never ever done or said anything that would put us on bad terms other than wanking a character who isn't named Sidious. And that sole act is enough to turn you into an immature prick. It reached a point where I don't want to debate Vitiate just cause I don't want you to see it and have a bad day.

Originally posted by Sinious
And he fails at even that as he acts more emotional than the people he accuses of being too emotional. A little bit of positivity would help him use his talent more efficiently tbh. 👆

At least I'm doing you the courtesy of insulting you while refuting your arguments. The fact that I've driven you to such lengths is particularly gratifying.

Originally posted by Sinious
Btw, its amuses me to see you claim someone who Sidious can stomp is capable of defeating Vitiate where in many occasions you said Sidious vs Vitiate would be a good fight.

Nowhere does that require this particular iteration of Vitiate to be comparable to any and all iterations of Sidious. Starkiller can defeat this incarnation of Vitiate and yet Vitiate ultimately be a peer of Sidious. These things aren't mutually exclusive.

If you were thinking critically rather than emotionally, you'd understand that. excellent

Neph
It's sad how Temps declined to the point where all he does now is throw a tantrum anytime he sees a post he doesn't like and chuckle over how "emotional" he's making everyone.

.....Is this because Ant called me the best debater while he has no respect at all for you, a person who's views are more aligned with his? mmm

Originally posted by The_Tempest
.....Is this because Ant called me the best debater while he has no respect at all for you, a person who's views are more aligned with his? mmm

No, its what you actually do. It's really awkward tbh.

Originally posted by Nephthys
No, its what you actually do. It's really awkward tbh.

Neph, you and I go back so far I can read you like a book. I am in your very thoughts. You can pretend that you don't get emotional and never have, but your history and behavior demonstrate otherwise.

But beyond that, I'm spanking Sin here and bringing him ever closer to the dark side.

No, thats the awkward thing. You think you can do that but you then you just randomly squeal that I'm unset and laugh in triumph but all I'm ever doing is making this face irl 😬

Its like watching flat-earthers hi-5ing over their brilliant arguments while the opposition just looks into the camera like they're on the Office.

Also my reaction to Ant was more about the fact that everyone knows Nai shits in your eyes at every opportunity.