Or perhaps we should use when Superman actually did tussle with Black Adam?
Because, Superman said he didn't have to hold back.
He said his punches were like bombs going off.
That he holds back against other people, but he doesn't have to be as careful with Adam...
And then when he decided 'This ends now."
His next punch would have 'cracked the moon in half'.
This show what happens as he quickly scales how much he's holding back.
Originally posted by Juntai
Or perhaps we should use when Superman actually did tussle with Black Adam?Because, Superman said he didn't have to hold back.
He said his punches were like bombs going off.
That he holds back against other people, but he doesn't have to be as careful with Adam...
And then when he decided 'This ends now."
His next punch would have 'cracked the moon in half'.
This show what happens as he quickly scales how much he's holding back.
He didn't hit BA with his punch that would have cracked the moon in half (hyperbole?), and we certainly have no idea if BA would have been able to take such a hit. I'm not saying that BA can beat Superman, because I really don't think he can, but with an amp of 2x base, I'm betting that BA would possess enough raw power to defeat Superman. If not, then Superman should have easily been able to defeat BA at base level.
Originally posted by StoicNot hyperbole. It's been stated about Superman's striking power several times.
He didn't hit BA with his punch that would have cracked the moon in half (hyperbole?), and we certainly have no idea if BA would have been able to take such a hit. I'm not saying that BA can beat Superman, because I really don't think he can, but with an amp of 2x base, I'm betting that BA would possess enough raw power to defeat Superman. If not, then Superman should have easily been able to defeat BA at base level.
This isn't even his upper end. I'm not sure why you'd even question that.
Originally posted by Juntai
Not hyperbole. It's been stated about Superman's striking power several times.
Said against Konvict as well once he took his measure and started fighting harder.
It was said against Infinity Man. etc.This isn't even his upper end. I'm not sure why you'd even question that.
I know that it isn't hyperbole, but the statement could have been considered as such. Blue marvel has the power to crack the moon in half, and I regard Superman to be his superior, while remaining in the same tier. I can't see Black Adam beating Superman regularly, but if he were 2x base, I have no problem seeing him flattening Superman out.
This shouldn't come as a blow to Superman fans, just that he does have a limit, which I think has been reached here. He told the Infinity Man that if he hit anything for long enough that it would break, or some such. That could also be classified as a hyped up statement. The High Herald tier was made to contain guys on Superman's power level, which goes to show that he is very powerful. moving out of that level, means that we are talking about characters capable of wrecking teams of High Heralds. Monarch, Thanos, Superboy/man Prime, Synnar (Harcore Station), HP Doomsday, WB Hulk, etc come to mind.
Originally posted by long pigSuperman rarely interacts with him at all, first of all.
Why hasn't superman ever blitzed him? He didn't seem to have the ability to do so.
But Superman is faster than Adam.
Adam on several occasions was overwhelmed by the speed of Jay Garrick.
Superman on the other hand goes step for step with Wally and Barry in and out of combat.
Remember, Flash is fast enough to see Superman attack, but he's not fast enough to do anything about it. [Something shown on a dozen occasions Post Crisis and New 52., shown during Sacrifice, shown during the New 52 first meeting between Flash and Supes.]
Before you or others post Barry saying 'those were for charity' and Superman being impressed by the speed of a human achieving a new level he hadn't seen yet, keep in mind that Superman has shown to be at least as fast on many many many occasions, and that the same character Barry also said himself that he knows Superman holds back his speed to match his own just to make him feel better.
Superman has outran both Wally and Impulse on foot. And he flies even faster than that.
Even so fast that Impulse couldn't see him move twice in one scene, and Superman also hopped to a different destination to help the Titans on an adventure in the middle of a few sentences they traded.
Originally posted by StoicAnd Superman has beaten Darkseid, and trapped him in the source wall. On another occasion was pissed off fighting someone else when Darkseid appeared, and Superman just flew in a circle real fast and beat him.
I know that it isn't hyperbole, but the statement could have been considered as such. Blue marvel has the power to crack the moon in half, and I regard Superman to be his superior, while remaining in the same tier. I can't see Black Adam beating Superman regularly, but if he were 2x base, I have no problem seeing him flattening Superman out.This shouldn't come as a blow to Superman fans, just that he does have a limit, which I think has been reached here. He told the Infinity Man that if he hit anything for long enough that it would break, or some such. That could also be classified as a hyped up statement. The High Herald tier was made to contain guys on Superman's power level, which goes to show that he is very powerful. moving out of that level, means that we are talking about characters capable of wrecking teams of High Heralds. Monarch, Thanos, Superboy/man Prime, Synnar (Harcore Station), HP Doomsday, WB Hulk, etc come to mind.
Kal was also is the one who stopped Superboy Prime's rampage, while standing in a field of kryptonite that affected only himself. Coincidentally, Superboy with half of Kal's DNA also wrecked shop on Prime a few times.
Superman also stopped Doomsday's first run, who was already so powerful a Guardian had to sacrifice himself to get him off of OA, and has Darkseid also ran from and feared he was lose to. -- something proven later in Hunter/Prey. Which is exactly why people believe Hunter Prey Doomsday was so impressive.
You see, you can keep naming guys that are team wreckers, like Doomsday, like Prime, like rogue Supergirl, etc, and he's already proven stronger than all of them. or like WW3 Adam, where not only has Superman been shown stronger than Adam before, but that the entire story was that the event happened specifically because Superman wasn't around.
Because he was busy being powerless, pretending to be human.
Originally posted by Juntai
And Superman has beaten Darkseid, and trapped him in the source wall. On another occasion was pissed off fighting someone else when Darkseid appeared, and Superman just flew in a circle real fast and beat him.Kal was also is the one who stopped Superboy Prime's rampage, while standing in a field of kryptonite that affected only himself. Coincidentally, Superboy with half of Kal's DNA also wrecked shop on Prime a few times.
Superman also stopped Doomsday's first run, who was already so powerful a Guardian had to sacrifice himself to get him off of OA, and has Darkseid also ran from and feared he was lose to. -- something proven later in Hunter/Prey. Which is exactly why people believe Hunter Prey Doomsday was so impressive.
You see, you can keep naming guys that are team wreckers, like Doomsday, like Prime, like rogue Supergirl, etc, and he's already proven stronger than all of them. or like WW3 Adam, where not only has Superman been shown stronger than Adam before, but that the entire story was that the event happened specifically because Superman wasn't around.
Because he was busy being powerless, pretending to be human.
Did Superman defeat the real Darkseid? Huge unknown.
HP Doomsday at his most powerful was well above Superman weight class.
Superboy Prime was intended to be above Superman. He even killed an elder version of the same character in that same scene that you are talking about while taking on Superman himself (weakened or not).
The things that you are bringing up can also be applied to other well known High Heralds as they too have defeated enemies well above their weight class. Should I place Thor in the Low-Mid Trans range, because of what he did during Blood & Thunder while not having the Power Gem? Of course not. We saw how a true Trans (Thanos) dealt with him.
Look at how Synnar took on Superman, Orion, J'onn, and a couple others during Hardcore Station. That's what power level a Trans tier character operates at. Unless you are saying that Superman was holding back against a universal menace that could take his best punches, and in turn flatten him out? All the same, Black Adam is not as powerful as Superman in any regard, but he can hang with him for a time at his base levels. He's 2x base in this thread, and there is no reason that he shouldn't win here IMO.
If Superman beats an Trans level or Skyfather char, or oneshots them, this will be used to lowball the chars. It won't be accepted as a legit feat for Superman.
What people don't understand is that Superman is not in the HH tier and you can't compare him to SS or Thor because he can be in this tier by choice and not power. Superman is in the tier he needs to be, more so than any other so called HH (by a fictional KMC tier) and eclipses the same tier people put him in if he choses too or the story requires it. And yes, his stories require it quite often compared to his so called peers like CM.
So no, Superman is not a HH, maybe if you take his low showings and disregard his highs.
Or to say it with words that matter more:
Originally posted by Prof. T.C McAbe
Average Superman vs 2x WW3 BA? Sure, BA wins. Superman in his OWAW Mindset, rapes him.
Probably. BUt OWAW Superman was being amped from sundip, correct? IMO, both Adam and Captain Marvel would be a toss up fight versus Superman assuming everyone was fighting at normal levels or not going all-out. Certainly a much better fight for him than Wonder Woman would be (which isn't really much of one at all, tbh).
Originally posted by Star428
Probably. BUt OWAW Superman was being amped from sundip, correct? IMO, both Adam and Captain Marvel would be a toss up fight versus Superman assuming everyone was fighting at normal levels or not going all-out. Certainly a much better fight for him than Wonder Woman would be (which isn't really much of one at all, tbh).
No, OWAW Superman after taking a sundip was possibly 100 times more powerful than his all out OWAW persona.
Originally posted by Stoic
Did Superman defeat the real Darkseid? Huge unknown.HP Doomsday at his most powerful was well above Superman weight class.
Superboy Prime was intended to be above Superman. He even killed an elder version of the same character in that same scene that you are talking about while taking on Superman himself (weakened or not).
The things that you are bringing up can also be applied to other well known High Heralds as they too have defeated enemies well above their weight class. Should I place Thor in the Low-Mid Trans range, because of what he did during Blood & Thunder while not having the Power Gem? Of course not. We saw how a true Trans (Thanos) dealt with him.
Look at how Synnar took on Superman, Orion, J'onn, and a couple others during Hardcore Station. That's what power level a Trans tier character operates at. Unless you are saying that Superman was holding back against a universal menace that could take his best punches, and in turn flatten him out? All the same, Black Adam is not as powerful as Superman in any regard, but he can hang with him for a time at his base levels. He's 2x base in this thread, and there is no reason that he shouldn't win here IMO.
Yes, it was the real Darkseid. It led into the subsequent storylines that involved him getting free of the Source Wall, then him regaining the Omega Power, and eventually directly into the Death of the New Gods and Final Crisis.
Superman went toe to toe with Hunter Prey and eventually won via plot device, but Doomsday couldn't keep Superman down either. He also outlasted Darkseid in this story.
Synnar the architect of the universe? lol.
Superman beating these beings isn't him punching above his weight class. These aren't once in a lifetime events like Thor reaching outside of his.
What year did Superman beat Darkseid in Superman/Batman?
What year did Superman beat Darkseid over the soul of Steel?
When did Superman defeat Superboy Prime?
What year did Superman defeat Cythonna, the Kryptponian godess?
What year did Superman stop Imperiex?
What year did Superman stop Dominus?
What year did Superman beat Blaze, who eventually took over Hell?
What year did Superman wrestle Azmodel?
What year did Superman beat the god Apollo?
What year did Superman beat ---
You know, Thor's feats without being powered up just flat out don't measure up to Superman, let alone the laundry list of victories. It's just different brackets. He has to swing high against Superman's lows to even be near the same bracket.
Comparing Thor to Superman is like comparing Cyborg to Superman.
When was Blood and Thunder? 1993?
Thor or Surfer goes up against a god or high end cosmic, they're like ants.
Thanos goes against gods or high end cosmic, he get slapped down.
Superman goes up against gods or high end cosmic, he spins in a circle and wins.
Originally posted by Prof. T.C McAbe
If Superman beats an Trans level or Skyfather char, or oneshots them, this will be used to lowball the chars. It won't be accepted as a legit feat for Superman.What people don't understand is that Superman is not in the HH tier and you can't compare him to SS or Thor because he can be in this tier by choice and not power. Superman is in the tier he needs to be, more so than any other so called HH (by a fictional KMC tier) and eclipses the same tier people put him in if he choses too or the story requires it.
So no, Superman is not a HH, maybe if you take his low showings and disregard his highs.
]
This.
Originally posted by Star428
100 times? You really believe that? Seems like u might be exaggerating a bit.
It would be just a logical conclusion. Before the sundip Superman wasn't able to hold of the conduits from Warworld, Steel with the Entropy Aegis came in to help and he was able to hold them back from earth, till:
When Superman came back from his trip to the sun he pushed Warworld and those conduits with it back, while tanking everything Brainiac, with the power of Imperiex, the power of entropy itself, could dish out, he even pushed it against the force of those energies.
So if we assume that the Entropy Aegis is as powerful as OWAW Superman or maybe even a notch above him and it wasn't able to hold back those conduits because they became a 100 times stronger, how strong was Superman after the sundip if he could achieve what the Aegis couldn't?