Windu & Yoda vs Tyranus & Sidious

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
The buffoonery here has reached epic levels. I mean epic. Let's begin...

Post ANY proof that he stopped bending his blade at Mace's face. You claimed he stopped doing so, there was never any reference made to such. Sure, he eventually stopped, but never was it mentioned he was actively trying to bend Mace's blade back at him, let alone that he stopped doing so.

MORON, Anakin could do NOTHING at the point where Mace had his sword at Sids throat. He had JUST walked in and was far away from them at that point. If mace wanted to kill Sids, he could've done so, or attempted to do so and Anakin could do nothing about it. Your claim was, that Sids knew Mace wouldn't kill him because Anakin had just walked in. This point has been utterly crushed. Which is the point, if his whole goal was to turn Anakin and he threw the fight... How would he knew Mace would hold his blade and not try and kill him? He wouldn't, he would have no clue one way or another. That seems like a big chance to take for an expert planner....

Your next moronic point is that Sids knew about Mace's style and thus he was prepared for exactly how good he was and what he'd be able to handle from Sids to give the appearance of a fair up and up fight? Wrong again clownshoes, he would have ZERO way of knowing exactly how good Mace was. None what so ever. He never fought a vaapad master before, let alone THE master of the form. Shit, Sids never fought anybody even remotely has good as Mace or Yoda before meeting them. To say he would know exactly what Mace is capable of, in order to EXACTLY know that he can block this strike or that strike... or would be able to dodge his force push.. or be able to sustain holding off his lighting is simply illogical. Think about it shoes....

I could be a black belt in Karate and Kung-Fu... I could hear about this thing called BJJ... I could read up on it and learn about it. Does that mean when I fight a BJJ black belt I'm prepared for what he's going to try, in exactly what way and which point in time? Of course not, I'd have a general idea of what he might try, but a real fight pays out much differently than a fantasy fight in your head. Sids would have ZERO clue what mace could and couldn't do to portray a up and up fight. I call bullshit.

Further, and you have no answer for this, WHY FIRE LIGHTING AT MACE AT ALL IF YOU"RE TRYING TO ACT WEAK IN FRONT OF ANKAIN? You have ZERO answer for that. He was already on the floor with a blade at his throat WITH NO WEAPON that Anakin could see. Why fire lighting at Mace at all? Why go no you will DIE.. DIE... and fire a powerful lighting blast at mace that you have no clue if he'll be able to block it... let alone block for awhile. Yoda got his saber disarmed by a lighting blast. Yet, Sids knew Mace could hold onto his, not just hold onto it, but hold onto it for awhile. More unsubstantiated nonsense from you. The buffoon you are, you come back with.. well he had to show Anakin his true face? WTF??? Are you retarded? Showing Anakin his true face changes nothing. Cite any reference to that having any significance at all. I call bullshit on your claim. Either prove it or concede you have no proof for this. That made no difference what so ever... Anakin already knew he was a sith.. he as well aware of it. He didnt' need to see his face to show that. That's ludicrous to even suggest so.

You again failed to answer this part... if you're TRYING TO THROW A FIGHT AND APPEAR WEAK... WHY DO YOU INCREASE YOUR FORCE SPEED TO SPEEDS never seen before? Why on God's green earth would you do that? You wouldn't you buffoon. Do you know what throwing a fight means? Have you seen boxing fights thrown.. or bball games thrown.. or any sport for that matter. Do you seem them playing the best they ever have when they are trying to lose? No, in fact you act the opposite, you UNDERPERFORM so you can lose. Yet here, Sids increases his speed dramatically to fight Mace. Why do so if your whole intent is to look weak? That's simply a retarded line of logic.

lastly, and I forgot about this for a second. In the novel it EXPILCTLY states Sids TRIED TO FORCE PUSH MACE OUT THE WINDOW. Mace countered said push with a push of his own to stop himself from flying out the window. How are you trying to push someone out the window if your intent is to lose the fight and show weakness? That doesn't jive with trying to throw the fight. It's beyond idiotic to even suggest such a thing. YOU DON'T TRY AND KILL SOEMONE YOU'RE TRYING TO LOSE TO YOU MORON. Jesus, are you like 8 and can't comprehend basic concepts ?

This debate has been over since it started. The only canon proof lies on my side. and abundantly on my side. It's not even close. Everybody can see it, everybody knows it. As I said, I have an open battlezone challenge to anybody who thinks Sids threw that entire fight.

You must mean the buffoonery on your part because the things I have to reply to form you, make me think of a 5 year old with more brains and common sense than you.

Idiotic question. It's simple, did maces head get cut off? No, he stopped before it reached him, very easy question to answer. I never said he was actively on purpose trying to bend Mace's blade I'm only going by what was put in the novel, which said he was bending Mace's blade back. You basically conceded when you said he eventually stopped. He stopped that's the point.

Dumby, yes he could. He could have cut maces hand off at any point, or used a force push, or tackled. Not saying he woudl have but these are all possibilities of things he could have done. Actually no, considering Sidious had the force, so if mace tried he woudl have been stopped by either Sidious or Anakin, who counsel have easily used force speed, or screamed out no, which seems to work on these characters. Sidious also again could have used lightning then or any other one of his superior force powers, or pulled out his second, blade. Now you wanna know one thing that happens, Sidious letting Mace live. Remember around the start when Sidiosu had Mace at sword point but didn't take it. I know I do.

I don't say he knew exactly how powerful, I'm saying he wasn't going in the game complelelty unaware of his capabilities. See the difference. He knew what Vaaapd was and Mace gave him a basic summary of the style and explained it a little bit. Also he hear accolades from people like Yoda and Dooku and Anakin that Mace is overall a great warrior, and that he is second only to Yoda, knows he's about equal to Dooku, or somewhere in that general area, and he know is about Vaapad. He pretty much has a good gage about where Sidious is. Now wheel he won't know the specifics of the style to the core he sure does know about it, and isn't just unprepared.

Technically yes. You've studied all the traditional moves, studied the crafts, and maneuvers, so you should be ready for most if not all of his fighting, unless he's made some sort of adjustment to it in which you can still prepare for with critical thinking. You have a better game than if you woudl have never ever practiced it. Also you've learned, and studied, given all that time you sure the hell should be ready unless you're lazy.

Again yes I have an answer. What happened to Sidious after the lightning was deflected back? A mutation or taking down a mask or whatever you woudl rather. Then he goes"I can't hold on any longer, and I'm to weak". All of that is to get Aankins sympathy and for him to join his side. What about that don't you seem to understand. You always claim I never have an answer when I do. It's just not the answer you wanna here. Again I call you a bully. 😂 OMG. That only proves my point further. No weapon ANAKIN could see which only helps him look more vulnerable, when he has the force and a lightsaber to back himself up. Also Sidious has force perception just like every other Jedi, so if mace tried anything funny, sidiosu had a plan. Keep it coming.

Why the hell are you also get me this question when it's so obvious. Your side is that Sidiosu ramped up his speed first. Why woudl he when he's already faster. He adapted to what Mace was doing. If mace got faster than Sidiosu got faster. Do you understand? In both the novel and the movie, in the it shows Sidious has the upper hand at the start. Then Mace slips into Vaapad right? That right there is what made Mace go faster. With the hat Sidiosu woudl also go faster as to keep up with Mace. this only goes to further prove my point that Sidious is both naturally a better fighter and a better fighter than Mace as Mace needed an amp to even get there. Sidious didn't.

Considering once again the Movies>Books. He tried to push Mace out the window implying the window was already open. In the movie no such power was attempted. So really that's just something the author brought in.

Up there you go again thinking you're the only one whose right again. Of all the canon argument lied on your side then why are you making points that I find so easy to counter and you don't have an answer all you can do is waste time and repost the same question over and over and over again, with a couple new ones but much easier to counter. Keep trying kid. The debate isn't over, at least not yet. You beleive you're right, which is the wrong way to go. No scarce that. You think you're 100% right which is wrong. Keep it coming.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
being written later is critically important. The further we get away from when the movie was made, the further we get away from Lucas' own words and intention. That was added only recently, and we all know how I feel about recently added material from "sources" that had ABSOLUTLEY nothing to do with the making of the movie in question. I strongly disagree with that line of thought. So when it was put up IS vitally important. However, let's say it was before Disney even bought Lucas, or even 3 years ago. That still, and you would agree, PAILS in comparison to Lucas' own words on the matter. Those two are even in the same stratosphere. You know that, and I know that. So what that site says, in the end, has little bearing on canonicity when compared to Lucas' own words.

Not really. Lucas himself is always revamping SW for it to make more sense. In ROTJ from his notes, the script and the novel, it was clearly his intention to depict Luke being fully Trained and better than Vader.

However after the Prequels, he's now claiming Luke was only Half Trained, and not fully equipped to take on Vader.

Lucas has also revamped stuff about the prequels during the making of TCW. Heck he outright completely revamped his Clear Intention for Darth Maul to be Dead!

So you think he can't later revamp his intentions towards a scene he only made because Samuel L Jackson demanded an Awsome death for his character?

And that's just Lucas. Disney are definitely free to revamp some things.

In any case, like I keep saying, I personally think Mace Won the Saber fight. I just think there is a case to be made the other way. Especially now that we know Sidious fights with Dual Sabers (revamped by Lucas in TCW btw).

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
I'll have to check the novel again, but I'm sure there is a reference either there or for their vjun fight when it does say yoda was holding back. Further, even if I'm wrong and that Is never mentioned... Him trying to capture him, and not kill him, inherently implies a level of holding back. You full well know other options open up when you go for the kill as opposed to just trying to subdue somebody. Those are worlds apart really. So even then, I would be correct that Yoda was holding back to some degree, in that he wasn't going for the kill.

Dark Rendezvous is part of the Old EU and Not Canon to the movies.

Well like I already pointed out, Mace went to Arrest Palpatine. So it's the same thing. Heck Anakin defeated Dooku before killing him.

So as long as you're willing to chop off limbs if need be, there shouldn't be much of an issue.

No he couldn't you bumbling moron. Anakin could have done nothing at the point he initially walked in. He was so far away from him he could've done nothing. No, Sids also could've done very little. He was in a vulnerable position (lower ground and on his ass with no weapon in hand) You think that's a great position to defend yourself in case something goes wrong and Mace goes for the kill? Of course not you clown. That's a horrible position to be in to try and defend yourself. As tactical as you claim Sids is... he would know better than to try and bring out another saber. You keep talking about force perception, as if Mace doesn't also have that. You don't think he could react and beat to the punch, somebody on the ground who decides to go for their weapon.. ignite.. and could do all that before Mace could react? PLEASE.. That is so beyond idiotic to suggest it's silly. You can go with what is possible all you want, I choose to go with what's probable. What's most likely is, Sids won't be able to get his saber before one of the best duelist in the mythos could react. I don't buy it, and neither did Sids.

YOu keep citing this scene where Sids "let mace live" He did no such thing. This is never referenced in the movie... the scipt.. the novel... NO PLACE IS THIS EVERY MENTIONED. Again, yet again, something with no canon backing what so ever. He merely got close to Mace.. but wasn't close enough to land the killing blow. Mace was just out of his reach. Maybe you've never been in a fight before, but reach can mean you can quite make it to your opponent when throwing strikes at times. You're just out of range. Same thing here. It's like you've never seen a fight in the movies before. I could cite every action movie every made and show you scenes where the bad guy got close to killing the good... he just missed that gun shot.. he just missed that knife strike... Jesus do you even do movies? Either cite any referenced to Sids not killing Mace with his saber or STFU about your stupid theories. Nobody gives two shits what emperor Sidious thinks about the movie or his take on the movie. Literally, nobody. Either cite proof of your claim or concede you have none.

I never said he would be totally unaware, cite where I said such a thing. What I'm saying is, and what you have no answer for is, he had never ever in his life fought a Vaapad master.. Ever. Not only that, he never fought ANYBODY of the Caliber of Mace in his life. Nobody. He was ill prepared for what he was about to face. I'm not saying he wasnt' good at prep, he was. but you can't prep for what you don't know. The only way to KNOW how good somebody else is, and even himself, is to do it. He never did.

Umm no you buffoon it wouldn't. Sidious did no such extensive studying on Vaapad. There is zero evidence to back up that claim. the only thing mentioned is that he had a convo about it, nothing more. There is zero narration even alluding to him taking the time to study it and delve into it. None. So I reject your notion that he was prepped for Vaapad and was ready for it. Post proof he actively studied it and learned a lot about it. If not, you'll have to make another concession.

He would've ALREADY had his sympathy.. He was lying on the floor... disarmed... in a vulnerable position. The point you don't get is... FIRING LIGHTING AND SAYING NO YOU WILL DIE... Doesn't make you look weaker at all. In fact, it gives the opposite impression. It would do a disservice to him to even try that. Plus the evidence points to something very different... Once Mace says he's going to arrest him and he's going to stand trial and his time is over.. HE VISIBLY gets pissed and goes ... No... No.... YOU WILL DIE!!! yet according to you, that was all for sure and he had already let the saber get kicked from his hand. I mean the depths you go to try and save face is hilarious. The evidence suggest it is just as we saw.. The emperor didn't want his reign to end.. was pissed off.. and tried to kill Mace. Do you know the best proof to back up his facial expressions when mace tells him this?? Guess... He even confirms his facial expression with not only words but actions... You will die... followed by powerful force lighting.

Wut??? That isn't how the fight went at all.... He actively increased his speed via the force INTIALLY when he fought Mace. That is why Mace had to counter that by breaking the window to slow him down. So I ask again, why ramp up your speed if you're trying to throw a fight. Does a boxer who's throwing a fight... tyr and look the best he's ever looked and go for the KO? Of course not... yet you expect me to believe Sids increased his speed and was throwing deadly saber strikes and force pushes... because he wanted to throw the fight? What a Moronivich you are

Ahhh the old it's in the book not the movie. Sorry bud, that excuse doesn't fly here. Lucas carefully went over every section of that book so that it meshed with his interpretation of the movie. he added stuff, deleted stuff.. it was a long process. So how do you throw a fight... when you actively try and throw somebody out the window? Does that make sense to you? Only a moron would think it does. Wut?? Window was already open.. WTF are your talking about now. It doesn't imply the window is open or not. Do you think the only way to throw somebody out the window is if it's open? You can't be this stupid.. can you? It doesn't imply a thing or contradict a thing. The only thing it contradicts is Sids throwing the fight. If Lucas has stover explicitly state Sids tried to force push Mace out the window.. Does that not contradict him trying to throw the fight?

Further damning proof.. Why illustrate HOW mace beat sids... Breaking the window.. rain... slowing the emperor force speed up down... shatterpoint... Why EXPLAIN exactly how he won IF HE WAS THROWING THE FIGHT THE ENTIRE TIME? You would do no such thing. Yet they did, and you still go, well he was throwing the fight...

The ownage is reaching epic levels here.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
The ownage is reaching epic levels here.

Indeed it is.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
No he couldn't you bumbling moron. Anakin could have done nothing at the point he initially walked in. He was so far away from him he could've done nothing. No, Sids also could've done very little. He was in a vulnerable position (lower ground and on his ass with no weapon in hand) You think that's a great position to defend yourself in case something goes wrong and Mace goes for the kill? Of course not you clown. That's a horrible position to be in to try and defend yourself. As tactical as you claim Sids is... he would know better than to try and bring out another saber. You keep talking about force perception, as if Mace doesn't also have that. You don't think he could react and beat to the punch, somebody on the ground who decides to go for their weapon.. ignite.. and could do all that before Mace could react? PLEASE.. That is so beyond idiotic to suggest it's silly. You can go with what is possible all you want, I choose to go with what's probable. What's most likely is, Sids won't be able to get his saber before one of the best duelist in the mythos could react. I don't buy it, and neither did Sids.

YOu keep citing this scene where Sids "let mace live" He did no such thing. This is never referenced in the movie... the scipt.. the novel... NO PLACE IS THIS EVERY MENTIONED. Again, yet again, something with no canon backing what so ever. He merely got close to Mace.. but wasn't close enough to land the killing blow. Mace was just out of his reach. Maybe you've never been in a fight before, but reach can mean you can quite make it to your opponent when throwing strikes at times. You're just out of range. Same thing here. It's like you've never seen a fight in the movies before. I could cite every action movie every made and show you scenes where the bad guy got close to killing the good... he just missed that gun shot.. he just missed that knife strike... Jesus do you even do movies? Either cite any referenced to Sids not killing Mace with his saber or STFU about your stupid theories. Nobody gives two shits what emperor Sidious thinks about the movie or his take on the movie. Literally, nobody. Either cite proof of your claim or concede you have none.

I never said he would be totally unaware, cite where I said such a thing. What I'm saying is, and what you have no answer for is, he had never ever in his life fought a Vaapad master.. Ever. Not only that, he never fought ANYBODY of the Caliber of Mace in his life. Nobody. He was ill prepared for what he was about to face. I'm not saying he wasnt' good at prep, he was. but you can't prep for what you don't know. The only way to KNOW how good somebody else is, and even himself, is to do it. He never did.

Umm no you buffoon it wouldn't. Sidious did no such extensive studying on Vaapad. There is zero evidence to back up that claim. the only thing mentioned is that he had a convo about it, nothing more. There is zero narration even alluding to him taking the time to study it and delve into it. None. So I reject your notion that he was prepped for Vaapad and was ready for it. Post proof he actively studied it and learned a lot about it. If not, you'll have to make another concession.

He would've ALREADY had his sympathy.. He was lying on the floor... disarmed... in a vulnerable position. The point you don't get is... FIRING LIGHTING AND SAYING NO YOU WILL DIE... Doesn't make you look weaker at all. In fact, it gives the opposite impression. It would do a disservice to him to even try that. Plus the evidence points to something very different... Once Mace says he's going to arrest him and he's going to stand trial and his time is over.. HE VISIBLY gets pissed and goes ... No... No.... YOU WILL DIE!!! yet according to you, that was all for sure and he had already let the saber get kicked from his hand. I mean the depths you go to try and save face is hilarious. The evidence suggest it is just as we saw.. The emperor didn't want his reign to end.. was pissed off.. and tried to kill Mace. Do you know the best proof to back up his facial expressions when mace tells him this?? Guess... He even confirms his facial expression with not only words but actions... You will die... followed by powerful force lighting.

Wut??? That isn't how the fight went at all.... He actively increased his speed via the force INTIALLY when he fought Mace. That is why Mace had to counter that by breaking the window to slow him down. So I ask again, why ramp up your speed if you're trying to throw a fight. Does a boxer who's throwing a fight... tyr and look the best he's ever looked and go for the KO? Of course not... yet you expect me to believe Sids increased his speed and was throwing deadly saber strikes and force pushes... because he wanted to throw the fight? What a Moronivich you are

Ahhh the old it's in the book not the movie. Sorry bud, that excuse doesn't fly here. Lucas carefully went over every section of that book so that it meshed with his interpretation of the movie. he added stuff, deleted stuff.. it was a long process. So how do you throw a fight... when you actively try and throw somebody out the window? Does that make sense to you? Only a moron would think it does. Wut?? Window was already open.. WTF are your talking about now. It doesn't imply the window is open or not. Do you think the only way to throw somebody out the window is if it's open? You can't be this stupid.. can you? It doesn't imply a thing or contradict a thing. The only thing it contradicts is Sids throwing the fight. If Lucas has stover explicitly state Sids tried to force push Mace out the window.. Does that not contradict him trying to throw the fight?

Further damning proof.. Why illustrate HOW mace beat sids... Breaking the window.. rain... slowing the emperor force speed up down... shatterpoint... Why EXPLAIN exactly how he won IF HE WAS THROWING THE FIGHT THE ENTIRE TIME? You would do no such thing. Yet they did, and you still go, well he was throwing the fight...

The ownage is reaching epic levels here.

Force speed. Jedi and Sith have used it cover great Distances in seconds. May I remind you of TPM where Qui Gon and Obi run from those droids. Anakin is much more powerful than they are, so he could defintlly run that fast if not faster, and run mace through, or use a force push. BS on Sidious not white able to do anything. It's called Force lightning. He sure was bending his saber being in "vulnerable" position.

https://youtu.be/YBLcxXR1PMw 1:06-1:08 Sidious has his blade directly at Windu's chest, an inch or 2 away and just stays there. Keep in mind Sidious is much faster than Mace, so he could have ran him through at this point, but didn't. I'm starting to think that you can't think for yourself. Everything has to be said for you. If someone showed you a picture, no, a video, an actual recording, of the space shuttle going to the moon, but no one says anything, do you automatically say it's not mentioned, referenced, or shown, all because you didn't hear someone confirm it, but it's right there in your freakin face. Or if the teacher tells you how to do a certain problem. She shows you how to add, she ask you to add 5+2. She ask you what you get and you get 7. And she shows you a video of someone doing it and you see 7, but she never says it's right or wrong, do you doubt because she never says it? No you just go with it because you've seen her tell you how to add, and a video.

I never said he had in depth knowledge of Vaapad. I said he and an epoverall view. Now while he doesn't know the specifics of the style, he sure knwis a bout it, and some of its very important practices basically, a nice overall view.

There was doubt in Anakins mind. He wanted to make sure there was no doubt. By doing that, he puts Anakin in a position that he has to choose Sidious, if he wants to save his wife, and also after getting shocked Sidious put himself in the perfect light of a scarred person,Megan though, he was faking it as confirmed by Lucas. Oh and guess what wasn't he bending his lightsaber back toward mace, almost going to kill him p, but stopped as we have both agreed. So that's 2x that Sidious has let mace comeback.

That makes no sense. Sidious is already faster than Windu so why woudl he actually need to ramp up his speed first. His speed naturally was better than Mace so Mace ramped up hai speed with Vaapad and Sidious then adjusted to that. Do I need to simplify it for you. Sidious>Mace. Mace use Vaaapad to amp up speed. Sidious then ramps up speed to keep up with Mace, so they EQUALS.

Or do you mean that excuse doesn't fly with you? Lucas has made it pretty clear the movies are the main source of canon, so has Disney. That means Movies>Books. The books are canon where they align with the movie. So that means Mace getting force pushed out of a window is just what the author put in. Now what Lucas had planned. In fact the window is still up when we get there for the second part, and they aren't near a wall, but goigm to the window and break the window with their sabers. No one gets pushed.

Books describe how things happen all the time. Do you not read much. The author puts emphasis on what is going through Mace's head. The novel also states that Windu used Shatterpoint based off of Sidious' fear, even though he didn't have one. It was Anakins fear. Also Windu felt Anakins presence before Anakin got to the building so that woudl also mean that Sidious woudl too.

Shame. You get beat almost as bad as Quan does.

Originally posted by EmperorSidious2

https://youtu.be/YBLcxXR1PMw 1:06-1:08 Sidious has his blade directly at Windu's chest, an inch or 2 away and just stays there. Keep in mind Sidious is much faster than Mace, so he could have ran him through at this point, but didn't.

Honestly that doesn't mean much. Ventress had Kenobi with her blade a couple of inches from his neck here from 1:37-1:42 yet she failed to kill him, or even cut him:

?v=cNiB1tk0wvo

Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
Force speed. Jedi and Sith have used it cover great Distances in seconds. May I remind you of TPM where Qui Gon and Obi run from those droids. Anakin is much more powerful than they are, so he could defintlly run that fast if not faster, and run mace through, or use a force push. BS on Sidious not white able to do anything. It's called Force lightning. He sure was bending his saber being in "vulnerable" position.

https://youtu.be/YBLcxXR1PMw 1:06-1:08 Sidious has his blade directly at Windu's chest, an inch or 2 away and just stays there. Keep in mind Sidious is much faster than Mace, so he could have ran him through at this point, but didn't. I'm starting to think that you can't think for yourself. Everything has to be said for you. If someone showed you a picture, no, a video, an actual recording, of the space shuttle going to the moon, but no one says anything, do you automatically say it's not mentioned, referenced, or shown, all because you didn't hear someone confirm it, but it's right there in your freakin face. Or if the teacher tells you how to do a certain problem. She shows you how to add, she ask you to add 5+2. She ask you what you get and you get 7. And she shows you a video of someone doing it and you see 7, but she never says it's right or wrong, do you doubt because she never says it? No you just go with it because you've seen her tell you how to add, and a video.

I never said he had in depth knowledge of Vaapad. I said he and an epoverall view. Now while he doesn't know the specifics of the style, he sure knwis a bout it, and some of its very important practices basically, a nice overall view.

There was doubt in Anakins mind. He wanted to make sure there was no doubt. By doing that, he puts Anakin in a position that he has to choose Sidious, if he wants to save his wife, and also after getting shocked Sidious put himself in the perfect light of a scarred person,Megan though, he was faking it as confirmed by Lucas. Oh and guess what wasn't he bending his lightsaber back toward mace, almost going to kill him p, but stopped as we have both agreed. So that's 2x that Sidious has let mace comeback.

That makes no sense. Sidious is already faster than Windu so why woudl he actually need to ramp up his speed first. His speed naturally was better than Mace so Mace ramped up hai speed with Vaapad and Sidious then adjusted to that. Do I need to simplify it for you. Sidious>Mace. Mace use Vaaapad to amp up speed. Sidious then ramps up speed to keep up with Mace, so they EQUALS.

Or do you mean that excuse doesn't fly with you? Lucas has made it pretty clear the movies are the main source of canon, so has Disney. That means Movies>Books. The books are canon where they align with the movie. So that means Mace getting force pushed out of a window is just what the author put in. Now what Lucas had planned. In fact the window is still up when we get there for the second part, and they aren't near a wall, but goigm to the window and break the window with their sabers. No one gets pushed.

Books describe how things happen all the time. Do you not read much. The author puts emphasis on what is going through Mace's head. The novel also states that Windu used Shatterpoint based off of Sidious' fear, even though he didn't have one. It was Anakins fear. Also Windu felt Anakins presence before Anakin got to the building so that woudl also mean that Sidious woudl too.

Shame. You get beat almost as bad as Quan does.

More unsubstantiated nonsense from you, it gets old having to correct you over and over.

MORON, Mace is GREATER than Anakin... He was SO FAST that Anakin couldn't even PERCEIVE him it was so fast. Yet somehow, he's going to cover that ground.. and stop Mace before Mace can react... even when his blade is already a foot away from Sids? Do you honestly believe that? That is probably one of the dumbest things I've ever seen you say, and you've said some dumb stuff let me tell you. The fact is, there is absolutely NO WAY for him to cover that distance faster could cover the distance of a foot. Anakin is not faster than Mace, nor better or more skilled. It's beyond idiotic to think he could've done a thing to Mace when he first walked in, then again, it's you.

Okay so you don't watch any movie then... Okay why didn't you just say so... We could've ended this discussion long ago. I'll ask a simple question.. Is it not routine for the good guy to almost get killed by the bad guys in an action movie? Is that not routine? Answer that question honestly, and then come back to me with ... Sids could've killed him with a straight face. It's simply ludicrous. There is ZERO narration ANYWHERE stating he could've killed him.

What's worse and even more damming about the above. If there was narration about sids throwing the fight... that would've been the PERFECT place to include that little tid bit... yet NOTHING. You even admit they go into great detail in the book about what people are thinking... Yet, the whole major plot point you say exists.. is NEVER EVER NOT ONCE MENTION IN THE SCRIPT.. the BOOK or the MOVIE. Seems like this point where Sids could've killed Mace according to you, would've been an ideal place to put such narration... Guess what.. they put NOTHING there. Case closed.

Who cares if he has knowledge of it, that means absolutely nothing. My point still stands, he has NO EVIDENCE to know how good mace is and what he'd be able to block or not block or counter or not counter. NONE. Concession accepted

he stopped because HIS FACE WAS GETTING FRIED AND HE WAS GETTING HIS LIGHTING SHOVED BACK IN HIS FACE. He was VISIBLY in pain your moron. That wasn't for sure, it was being reflected back at him. God damn you're dumb. He stopped because he realized it wasn't working and he had to try a different approach. So he stopped and pretend to be void of energy, nothing more. He didnt' stop because he could've killed him but choose to let him live.

You fail to realize this wasn't the only opportunity to turn Anakin. He still had the trump card of Padame... At any point he could use that to lure him to the darkside. It didnt' have to be done right then, it would've happened eventually. There's zero proof or narration stating it needed to happen then. You keep insisting he did, with nothing to back it up. He simply got his ass kicked and went for plan b... no amount of whining can change that.

You're too stupid to even continue the discussion at this point. You keep saying it contradicts the movie. It contradicts nothing. THE WINDOW DOESN'T HAVE TO BE OPEN FOR HIM TO FORCE PUSH HIM OUT. Are you honestly this dumb or just acting this dumb? It's a serious question. Do you honestly think the only way to push someone out the window is if its open? Are you 5? I mean serious, are you? The isn't a contradiction there at all, you want there to be, because that along with everything else crushes your argument. You don't try and force push somebody out the window you're trying to lose to. Answer the question.... do you try and force push someone out the window you're trying to lose 2? Simple question. If you refuse to answer I'll only respond with this question over and over till you do.

What??? Lucas didn't see that part or go over the book??/ It was just thrown in by Stover??? WTF are you talking about. Post proof of that Lucas didn't go over this part of the book. Lucas explicitly has said he went over the book over and over and edited it. He had the final say on EVERYTHING in the book. Now either post proof he didn't read this part and thus didn't know it was there or STFU about it.

Owned again kid.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Honestly that doesn't mean much. Ventress had Kenobi with her blade a couple of inches from his neck here from 1:37-1:42 yet she failed to kill him, or even cut him:

?v=cNiB1tk0wvo

I think he's like 10 or 11 honestly. It's like he's never seen a movie in his life. Literally, almost every single action movie ever made has the good guy close to dying. Like literally every one. He acts like this is the first time he's seen such a scene. It's hilarious

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Honestly that doesn't mean much. Ventress had Kenobi with her blade a couple of inches from his neck here from 1:37-1:42 yet she failed to kill him, or even cut him:

?v=cNiB1tk0wvo

Thing is though he never tried. He never even budged the whole time is what I'm saying.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
I think he's like 10 or 11 honestly. It's like he's never seen a movie in his life. Literally, almost every single action movie ever made has the good guy close to dying. Like literally every one. He acts like this is the first time he's seen such a scene. It's hilarious

Well in terms of age you're actually warm. From the highest number your 3 years low.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi

Mace is GREATER than Anakin...

Probably, but not by much tbh.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
He was SO FAST that Anakin couldn't even PERCEIVE him it was so fast.

Not Canon. Because Anakin never witnessed the fight.

Sounds about right, and as I suspected. Try watching more action movies. You'll notice a consistent theme in them....

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Probably, but not by much tbh.

Not Canon. Because Anakin never witnessed the fight.

Incorrect, this is very much canon to Lucas' view of the fight. As you know, he careful went over every line of the book. Adding stuff, taking stuff out, he was the final authority. As you are also aware, Lucas' views on the movies and scenes in question are exponentially worth more than Disney saying they don't like it anymore. It's that simple.

I agree, he's not that much better, but he's better none the less. The point is, sidious is claiming Anakin could move so fast that he could reach Mace (from his position in the door) before Mace could strike down Sids... with his sword a foot away. I reject such a notion that Anakin is that fast much faster than Mace.

[QUOTE=15407617]Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
[B]More unsubstantiated nonsense from you, it gets old having to correct you over and over.

MORON, Mace is GREATER than Anakin... He was SO FAST that Anakin couldn't even PERCEIVE him it was so fast. Yet somehow, he's going to cover that ground.. and stop Mace before Mace can react... even when his blade is already a foot away from Sids? Do you honestly believe that? That is probably one of the dumbest things I've ever seen you say, and you've said some dumb stuff let me tell you. The fact is, there is absolutely NO WAY for him to cover that distance faster could cover the distance of a foot. Anakin is not faster than Mace, nor better or more skilled. It's beyond idiotic to think he could've done a thing to Mace when he first walked in, then again, it's you.

Okay so you don't watch any movie then... Okay why didn't you just say so... We could've ended this discussion long ago. I'll ask a simple question.. Is it not routine for the good guy to almost get killed by the bad guys in an action movie? Is that not routine? Answer that question honestly, and then come back to me with ... Sids could've killed him with a straight face. It's simply ludicrous. There is ZERO narration ANYWHERE stating he could've killed him.

What's worse and even more damming about the above. If there was narration about sids throwing the fight... that would've been the PERFECT place to include that little tid bit... yet NOTHING. You even admit they go into great detail in the book about what people are thinking... Yet, the whole major plot point you say exists.. is NEVER EVER NOT ONCE MENTION IN THE SCRIPT.. the BOOK or the MOVIE. Seems like this point where Sids could've killed Mace according to you, would've been an ideal place to put such narration... Guess what.. they put NOTHING there. Case closed.

Who cares if he has knowledge of it, that means absolutely nothing. My point still stands, he has NO EVIDENCE to know how good mace is and what he'd be able to block or not block or counter or not counter. NONE. Concession accepted

he stopped because HIS FACE WAS GETTING FRIED AND HE WAS GETTING HIS LIGHTING SHOVED BACK IN HIS FACE. He was VISIBLY in pain your moron. That wasn't for sure, it was being reflected back at him. God damn you're dumb. He stopped because he realized it wasn't working and he had to try a different approach. So he stopped and pretend to be void of energy, nothing more. He didnt' stop because he could've killed him but choose to let him live.

You fail to realize this wasn't the only opportunity to turn Anakin. He still had the trump card of Padame... At any point he could use that to lure him to the darkside. It didnt' have to be done right then, it would've happened eventually. There's zero proof or narration stating it needed to happen then. You keep insisting he did, with nothing to back it up. He simply got his ass kicked and went for

You're telling me. Having to answer all these idiotic questions you put in my face does get tiresome.

Well actually according to the stunt coordinator Anakin is a 9, so I wouldn'tsay greater, since Dooku and Windu are equals and Anakin beat Dooku. Again Aankin didn't see them fight so he couldn't perceive anything as according to the movie which beats the books. You make that sound like that's something Mace could replicate on a everyday basis. You yourself have said you concede that Mace had a lot of factors that woudlnt be replicated again. If Windu fights Anakin and he gets that same amp again call me, but until then leave. So now mace can just pull that speed out of his butt. He's not fighting Sidious so he's not reflecting the dark energy required to move that fast. How about you actually think first before you post.

Ohhhh noo. So now you give the excuse that's how movies normally go? BS. That doesn't matter. That just shows Sidious let him go. Just concede instead of being a brick wall. Trust me I've seen plenty of movies that the hero almost dies before a big moment, but that's not a good excuse to bring in. If that's the case this shouldn't even be a discussion, since the only reason mace lasted that long was because Samuel L Jackson wanted a good death, not just a lame stabbed in the back death, he wanted it to be dramatic and spectacular, as stated by Lucas in the commentary. You don't need commentary when the freakin film shows that to you.

Why woudl they need to put something you can obviously see onscreen in a commentary? Now Lucas needs to explain every little thing now? This only further strengthens my point because, we see Sidious could have killed Widnu there, but didn't, but Lucas says this scen always started with Mace overpowering Palpatine, which shows he's jaunt describing what we see, not settling a debate. Any idiot can go and watch ROTS and see that Sidious didn't take the killing blow when he had the chance. Apparently you are worse than an idiot.

Again you are wrong. You say Sidious has no idea how good mace is. He has spent 13 years around the Jedi, has spent several years practicing the blade, and had Dooku. All of which were connected to Windu and lightsaber combat. Sidiosu woudl know that Windu is second one to Yoda who has plenty of feats to his name, knows about Vaapad and that Mace created it. Creating it is not an easy deal, and Sidious knows this. He also had Dolku who could have spoken very highly of Mace, or stated his skill. So again you're wrong about Sidious not knowing how skilled Sidious is. He had an idea, and well solidly built one.

Again, Lucas says he was faking weakeness, and as seen in the movie he was still shooting and his face had gotten as fired as it was going to get. Also, not something trying to debate just throwing it out there, Sidious could have had a Sith mask, the novel sort of implies this, but feel free to take it or leave it doesn't matter. Point is, that wouldn't matter. Sidious faked all of that, and goes from being all damaged to unlimited power in seconds. Incredibly short time to recover from torrents of force lightning. Wasn't working?!?! What do you call sending his blade back at him and almost kilometers him? I call that working you moron. You call me dumb, look at your post. They make pieces of shot look like einsteins.

What does of matter of that was his only time or not. That was the time he choose, or the time, fate had placed. Either way it doesn't matter. Now if you're saying he could have made another time, I'm willing to agree, but why wait. No need in waiting. Did you not hear the line of "I have the power to save the one you love". Sidious knew that Padme was vital and used her to biggest extent. Shame you do. Understand this.

I'm the stupid one. I'm not the one trying to say the books take place over the movies. I've taken every argument you've thrown, and crushed it head on. Answered every question, without backing down. If anything you're the stupid one who now falls back on insults because you've lost. Now I'm going to ask you this question. Did I ever say a window had to be open to push someone through it? Now I say this because I have actually been pushed fairly hard against Windows and other glasses frames and I did not fall through it. I'm not saying my instance and this instance compare, but just a little FYI. Also the movie never really shows that instance, while its possible it could ahve happened offscreen it's highly doubtful and pretty much speculation to say that it happened. Now if the books and the movies lined up perfectly then I would take your argument, but here they don't, and I'm still confused on how you don't understand the movies>novels.

So now you're saying that Lucas should look for every tiny little detail? Is that what you're saying. Nothing is ever going to be the exact same. Movies and books see this the most. Whether an movie or book adaptation is made, the author or director will make slight differences to the stories. Have you not read a single book or seen a single movie. If you did you woudl understand this. The Book woudl put more detail into its pages, while the movie would make things more fit for a cinematic screen. So Lucas can read the story and approve it, but the movies are top, the book isn't. If it doesn't align with the movie than its not canon. Once again, you're telling me that we have 2 separate universe. One where Anakin walks in when they aren't fighting, and one where they walk in where they are fighting. You can't fo with both, you go with the one which and the highest version of canon, and that is the movies. How many times must k expa,in this to you. So I ask you this question. Are you dumb, or are you pretending. I'm dead serious if i have to expa,in this simple canon hierarchy to you. Are you 3? How old are you? It doesn't freakin matter of he went over the book. He's speciffacly said that the movies are the highest form of canon, so has Disney. That means if the movies has one thing and the book has something different then the movie wins everytime. You dumbass that's not hard to figure out. When have I ever said he never looked over the book?

How many times, must I own you.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Probably, but not by much tbh.

Not Canon. Because Anakin never witnessed the fight.

Thank you. Kurupt doesn't seem to understand this. Movies>Books

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Sounds about right, and as I suspected. Try watching more action movies. You'll notice a consistent theme in them....

Again that's a lame excuse. If you use that, I have the right to use why Mace lasted that long in the first place. Samuel L Jackson just didn't want to go down that fast. Oh and while we are at it watch the movie adaptations of certain books and read the book adaption of a movie and you'll notice that they aren't 100% the same.

kurupt thanosi:

First off, you must be a real chore to deal with in real life. you think calling people a moron over and over will make your argument stronger or something?

Second, to address your argument about Sidious using his lightning but not trying to kill Mace, the logic s very simple:

In order to turn Anakin on the spot it had to be a do or die choice; if Palpatine dies, the secret to save Padme dies with him, up until the point of lightning usage, Mace only wanted to arrest the Chancellor, he says it when the 4 Jedi show up in his chamber and again when he has him at sword point. That tactic wouldn't work for Sidous' plan so he hit him with the lightning so that Mace was left with no choice but to kill the Emperor, thus forcing Anakins hand...watch the movie bud its all there, if you care to pay attention that is....

^ Yeah the Lightning was required to force Anakin to choose. Palpatine didn't fear going to prison. He would have got out as Windu even states later: "He controls the Senate and the Courts"

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Incorrect, this is very much canon to Lucas' view of the fight. As you know, he careful went over every line of the book. Adding stuff, taking stuff out, he was the final authority. As you are also aware, Lucas' views on the movies and scenes in question are exponentially worth more than Disney saying they don't like it anymore. It's that simple.

I agree, he's not that much better, but he's better none the less. The point is, sidious is claiming Anakin could move so fast that he could reach Mace (from his position in the door) before Mace could strike down Sids... with his sword a foot away. I reject such a notion that Anakin is that fast much faster than Mace.

No not necessarily. Because if it never happened in the film them it's equivalent to a deleted scene. And deleted scenes get contradicted all the time. No point going on about what Lucas "thinks", because we don't know what he thinks, and he contradicts his own words constantly, let alone his thoughts. All we know is that scene isn't canon. And we also know the idea that Anakin couldn't even react to Sidious's or Mace's movements is kind of ludicrous given he beat Dooku who fended off Yoda.

You're right Anakin's not faster than Mace. In fact Dooku actually seems slightly faster than Anakin in their fights, and Mace and Dooku are probably similar in regards to speed and skill.

Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
[QUOTE=15407617]Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
[B]More unsubstantiated nonsense from you, it gets old having to correct you over and over.

MORON, Mace is GREATER than Anakin... He was SO FAST that Anakin couldn't even PERCEIVE him it was so fast. Yet somehow, he's going to cover that ground.. and stop Mace before Mace can react... even when his blade is already a foot away from Sids? Do you honestly believe that? That is probably one of the dumbest things I've ever seen you say, and you've said some dumb stuff let me tell you. The fact is, there is absolutely NO WAY for him to cover that distance faster could cover the distance of a foot. Anakin is not faster than Mace, nor better or more skilled. It's beyond idiotic to think he could've done a thing to Mace when he first walked in, then again, it's you.

Okay so you don't watch any movie then... Okay why didn't you just say so... We could've ended this discussion long ago. I'll ask a simple question.. Is it not routine for the good guy to almost get killed by the bad guys in an action movie? Is that not routine? Answer that question honestly, and then come back to me with ... Sids could've killed him with a straight face. It's simply ludicrous. There is ZERO narration ANYWHERE stating he could've killed him.

What's worse and even more damming about the above. If there was narration about sids throwing the fight... that would've been the PERFECT place to include that little tid bit... yet NOTHING. You even admit they go into great detail in the book about what people are thinking... Yet, the whole major plot point you say exists.. is NEVER EVER NOT ONCE MENTION IN THE SCRIPT.. the BOOK or the MOVIE. Seems like this point where Sids could've killed Mace according to you, would've been an ideal place to put such narration... Guess what.. they put NOTHING there. Case closed.

Who cares if he has knowledge of it, that means absolutely nothing. My point still stands, he has NO EVIDENCE to know how good mace is and what he'd be able to block or not block or counter or not counter. NONE. Concession accepted

he stopped because HIS FACE WAS GETTING FRIED AND HE WAS GETTING HIS LIGHTING SHOVED BACK IN HIS FACE. He was VISIBLY in pain your moron. That wasn't for sure, it was being reflected back at him. God damn you're dumb. He stopped because he realized it wasn't working and he had to try a different approach. So he stopped and pretend to be void of energy, nothing more. He didnt' stop because he could've killed him but choose to let him live.

You fail to realize this wasn't the only opportunity to turn Anakin. He still had the trump card of Padame... At any point he could use that to lure him to the darkside. It didnt' have to be done right then, it would've happened eventually. There's zero proof or narration stating it needed to happen then. You keep insisting he did, with nothing to back it up. He simply got his ass kicked and went for

You're telling me. Having to answer all these idiotic questions you put in my face does get tiresome.

Well actually according to the stunt coordinator Anakin is a 9, so I wouldn'tsay greater, since Dooku and Windu are equals and Anakin beat Dooku. Again Aankin didn't see them fight so he couldn't perceive anything as according to the movie which beats the books. You make that sound like that's something Mace could replicate on a everyday basis. You yourself have said you concede that Mace had a lot of factors that woudlnt be replicated again. If Windu fights Anakin and he gets that same amp again call me, but until then leave. So now mace can just pull that speed out of his butt. He's not fighting Sidious so he's not reflecting the dark energy required to move that fast. How about you actually think first before you post.

Ohhhh noo. So now you give the excuse that's how movies normally go? BS. That doesn't matter. That just shows Sidious let him go. Just concede instead of being a brick wall. Trust me I've seen plenty of movies that the hero almost dies before a big moment, but that's not a good excuse to bring in. If that's the case this shouldn't even be a discussion, since the only reason mace lasted that long was because Samuel L Jackson wanted a good death, not just a lame stabbed in the back death, he wanted it to be dramatic and spectacular, as stated by Lucas in the commentary. You don't need commentary when the freakin film shows that to you.

Why woudl they need to put something you can obviously see onscreen in a commentary? Now Lucas needs to explain every little thing now? This only further strengthens my point because, we see Sidious could have killed Widnu there, but didn't, but Lucas says this scen always started with Mace overpowering Palpatine, which shows he's jaunt describing what we see, not settling a debate. Any idiot can go and watch ROTS and see that Sidious didn't take the killing blow when he had the chance. Apparently you are worse than an idiot.

Again you are wrong. You say Sidious has no idea how good mace is. He has spent 13 years around the Jedi, has spent several years practicing the blade, and had Dooku. All of which were connected to Windu and lightsaber combat. Sidiosu woudl know that Windu is second one to Yoda who has plenty of feats to his name, knows about Vaapad and that Mace created it. Creating it is not an easy deal, and Sidious knows this. He also had Dolku who could have spoken very highly of Mace, or stated his skill. So again you're wrong about Sidious not knowing how skilled Sidious is. He had an idea, and well solidly built one.

Again, Lucas says he was faking weakeness, and as seen in the movie he was still shooting and his face had gotten as fired as it was going to get. Also, not something trying to debate just throwing it out there, Sidious could have had a Sith mask, the novel sort of implies this, but feel free to take it or leave it doesn't matter. Point is, that wouldn't matter. Sidious faked all of that, and goes from being all damaged to unlimited power in seconds. Incredibly short time to recover from torrents of force lightning. Wasn't working?!?! What do you call sending his blade back at him and almost kilometers him? I call that working you moron. You call me dumb, look at your post. They make pieces of shot look like einsteins.

What does of matter of that was his only time or not. That was the time he choose, or the time, fate had placed. Either way it doesn't matter. Now if you're saying he could have made another time, I'm willing to agree, but why wait. No need in waiting. Did you not hear the line of "I have the power to save the one you love". Sidious knew that Padme was vital and used her to biggest extent. Shame you do. Understand this.

I'm the stupid one. I'm not the one trying to say the books take place over the movies. I've taken every argument you've thrown, and crushed it head on. Answered every question, without backing down. If anything you're the stupid one who now falls back on insults because you've lost. Now I'm going to ask you this question. Did I ever say a window had to be open to push someone through it? Now I say this because I have actually been pushed fairly hard against Windows and other glasses frames and I did not fall through it. I'm not saying my instance and this instance compare, but just a little FYI. Also the movie never really shows that instance, while its possible it could ahve happened offscreen it's highly doubtful and pretty much speculation to say that it happened. Now if the books and the movies lined up perfectly then I would take your argument, but here they don't, and I'm still confused on how you don't understand the movies>novels.

So now you're saying that Lucas should look for every tiny little detail? Is that what you're saying. Nothing is ever going to be the exact same. Movies and books see this the most. Whether an movie or book adaptation is made, the author or director will make slight differences to the stories. Have you not read a single book or seen a single movie. If you did you woudl understand this. The Book woudl put more detail into its pages, while the movie would make things more fit for a cinematic screen. So Lucas can read the story and approve it, but the movies are top, the book isn't. If it doesn't align with the movie than its not canon. Once again, you're telling me that we have 2 separate universe. One where Anakin walks in when they aren't fighting, and one where they walk in where they are fighting. You can't fo with both, you go with the one which and the highest version of canon, and that is the movies. How many times must k expa,in this to you. So I ask you this question. Are you dumb, or are you pretending. I'm dead serious if i have to expa,in this simple canon hierarchy to you. Are you 3? How old are you? It doesn't freakin matter of he went over the book. He's speciffacly said that the movies are the highest form of canon, so has Disney. That means if the movies has one thing and the book has something different then the movie wins everytime. You dumbass that's not hard to figure out. When have I ever said he never looked over the book?

How many times, must I own you.

You literally posted nothing of substance, like nothing. It's almost getting ridiculous now how you'll discount canon evidence for your theory. I have neither the time nor patience for people that retarded and illogical. I'll just ask one further question to see how you'll answer...

Would it not be correct that Lucas' intention when the movie was made... when the book was written... that Mace beats Sids. Do you agree with that? I don't care if you believe things change, and he later changed his mind, I'm only interested if you agree Lucas' original intent was the Mace winning?

Originally posted by relentless1
kurupt thanosi:

First off, you must be a real chore to deal with in real life. you think calling people a moron over and over will make your argument stronger or something?

Second, to address your argument about Sidious using his lightning but not trying to kill Mace, the logic s very simple:

In order to turn Anakin on the spot it had to be a do or die choice; if Palpatine dies, the secret to save Padme dies with him, up until the point of lightning usage, Mace only wanted to arrest the Chancellor, he says it when the 4 Jedi show up in his chamber and again when he has him at sword point. That tactic wouldn't work for Sidous' plan so he hit him with the lightning so that Mace was left with no choice but to kill the Emperor, thus forcing Anakins hand...watch the movie bud its all there, if you care to pay attention that is....

None of that was ever even commented on IN ANY PLACE. The novel.. the script... the movie.. nothing. The book went into GREAT detail to talk about people's thoughts and fears and plans. Yet, they never, not once decided to share with the audience that the entire fight was a rouse... That makes sense to you? Surely, you don't believe that. That wasn't the only opportunity to turn Anakin, why do people keep insisting on this point. It wasn't. He wasn't firing the lighting for show. He was VISIBLY upset and pissed. If according to you this was all some big rouse and a fake... Sids likely would be laughing or grinning.. knowing this is going as he planned. Instead he was visibly pissed Mace said his reign was over... then fires lighting. We've seen sidious (even with Yoda laughing and grinning... with Maul and Savage... Other times he's pissed and mad) The reality is.. he was pissed and fired lighting.. we can VISIBLY see all these things. For your theory there isn't ONE SHRED of evidence to back up the claim that the lighting was all show. Not a line in any place backing up your claim. I have the highest form of canon backing up mine with words and actions

Let me ask you this, if we know Lucas' careful made edits to the book and took stuff out and put stuff in. It was a long process. So why would he leave a line in the book that:

1. Sids attacked Windu with all his dark fury/might?
2. Why would he have Sids trying and force push Mace out the window, which windu was BARELY able to counter. Why would he put that in there is Sids was trying to throw the fight the entire time?
3. Why would the book go into great detail about how Mace won... Breaking the window so the floor was wet... thus slowing down Sids..It even talks about how Mace used shatterpoint to figure out the way to beat Sids (by slowing him down). Why would it mention all of this if their intention was to write a fight where Sids was faking the whole time.

Answer the above and truly ask yourself if that makes logical sense. Do you actually believe, considering the above, that their intention was to show Sids throwing the entire fight? When you add the above to Lucas' own commentary, where he literally, point blank says "Mace overcame Sids" Why would he say that if the entire fight was a fake? Why would he just say, and so easily, Sids faked the right.. he let mace win. Yet, he never did, ever, nor did he add that into the book. Don't you think that makes little sense if that was his intent?