Originally posted by Flyattractor
[b]Examples of actual "Gun Worship" in the U.S please. [/B]
Yeah, lol. I don't think anybody actually "worships guns". Liberals are overstating things, like usual. Tbh, I don't really even like guns all that much but they are a necessary evil regardless of what liberals or people living in other countries think. For one, they protect all of our other rights which we couldn't defend without them. Then, of course, self-defense from criminals and terrorists is pretty damn important too. The fact that you can also use them to hunt if you have to is a nice bonus.
Originally posted by Star428
Yeah, lol. I don't think anybody actually "worships guns". Liberals are overstating things, like usual. Tbh, I don't really even like guns all that much but they are a necessary evil regardless of what liberals or people living in other countries think. For one, they protect all of our other rights which we couldn't defend without them. Then, of course, self-defense from criminals and terrorists is pretty damn important too. The fact that you can also use them to hunt if you have to is a nice bonus.
It'd be nice if we lived in some kind of fantasy world where we could all hold hands and sing "We are the World" while not having to worry about criminals, terrorists, or an out-of-control government but that's just not very realistic.
Originally posted by Star428
It'd be nice if we lived in some kind of fantasy world where we could all hold hands and sing "We are the World" while not having to worry about criminals, terrorists, or an out-of-control government but that's just not very realistic.
Well, it is pretty realistic in Europe. Much more so than in the US...so it would be possible for the US as well, giving up seems like the wrong move.
Originally posted by Star428
It'd be nice if we lived in some kind of fantasy world where we could all hold hands and sing "We are the World" while not having to worry about criminals, terrorists, or an out-of-control government but that's just not very realistic.
If the proliferation of guns solved those issues you'd have the lowest crime rate, the least risk of terrorism and the most benign government in the world
Guess what, though?
Originally posted by Bardock42Where in Europe are you talking about? As far as terrorism goes, Europe is the place to be now. I don't like the argument that , " country x does one thing better so we MUST emulate it. "
Well, it is pretty realistic in Europe. Much more so than in the US...so it would be possible for the US as well, giving up seems like the wrong move.
Originally posted by Bardock42
Well, it is pretty realistic in Europe. Much more so than in the US...so it would be possible for the US as well, giving up seems like the wrong move.
Oh, please. Don't act like Europe is some kind of ****ing utopia. I don't buy that bullshit for a second and don't bother posting some bullshit chart about low number of gun violent deaths in Europe because this isn't Europe and too many of people here already have guns so trying to take them away would cause a lot of bloodshed. Now that u have all those migrants flooding Europe I feel sorry for your civilians if lots of them are ISIS sleeper agents asI suspect they are since you all don't even have guns to protect yourselves. Also, guess you haven't been keeping up with how the U.S. is becoming more and more like a police state and our rights are being chipped away. It's just a matter of of time before the government goes too far and we'll have to defend ourselves. As long as we are run by a corrupt government and we have all these immigrants from Mexico coming in (who many are no doubt ISIS sleeper agents) giving up our guns is not a wise option. I'm tired of you and everybody else in Europe acting all high and mighty regarding guns. You people don't live here so quit acting like you all know what's best for us please. You don't. You're not our ****ing parents so quit acting like it.
Originally posted by psmith81992
Where in Europe are you talking about? As far as terrorism goes, Europe is the place to be now. I don't like the argument that , " country x does one thing better so we MUST emulate it. "
Well, if we talk about gun deaths or homicides generally then litreally everywhere in Europe.
If we talk about Islamic terrorists in the last five years, idk, you did have the Boston Marathon bombing, in the last couple months I suppose so. If we talk about Domestic Terrorism, the US got Europe beat handily again
Originally posted by Star428
Oh, please. Don't act like Europe is some kind of ****ing utopia. I don't buy that bullshit for a second and don't bother posting some bullshit chart about low number of gun violent deaths in Europe because this isn't Europe and too many of people here already have guns so trying to take them away would cause a lot of bloodshed. Now that u have all those migrants flooding Europe I feel sorry for your civilians if lots of them are ISIS sleeper agents asI suspect they are since you all don't even have guns to protect yourselves. Also, guess you haven't been keeping up with how the U.S. is becoming more and more like a police state and our rights are being chipped away. It's just a matter of of time before the government goes too far and we'll have to defend ourselves. As long as we are run by a corrupt government giving up our guns is not a wise option. I'm tired of you and everybody else in Europe acting all high and mighty regarding guns. You people don't live here so quit acting like you all know what's best for us please. You don't.
It's not a Utopia, it's just better than the US when it comes to certain metrics, some of which are very important to many people, like physical safety, health care coverage, education cost, etc.
Things can and should be better in Europe as well of course.
Originally posted by psmith81992
Where in Europe are you talking about? As far as terrorism goes, Europe is the place to be now. I don't like the argument that , " country x does one thing better so we MUST emulate it. "
Just on this particular note- it's important indeed that this argument is not seen in absolutes like that. The claim here is not the absolute superiority of one culture over another (and, as I mentioned, you can't simply import policies and expect them immediately to have the same effect in both places).
To turn this around, if we take the example of New York's dramatic fall in crime in the 21st century (I understand it may be creeping up again now, but the idea still holds)- now, this is something that, say, London could REALLY do with; there may be relatively little gun crime in London but as far as general violence and lower level crimes go, certain parts of it are pretty nasty and authorities there are often casting around for ways to emulate the New York example.
London can't seem to crack that one in the way NY could. Here, NY has something right that London does not.
Just when it comes to guns in particular, this is one the US generally has wrong, and what makes that particularly noteworthy is that it gets it wrong in a way that other western nations really do not (as opposed to, say, drugs, which the US gets wrong but then so does most of the west). The US is a weird outlier here.
Originally posted by Bardock42http://www.heritage.org/research/reports/2011/05/terror-trends-40-years-data-on-international-and-domestic-terrorism
Well, if we talk about gun deaths or homicides generally then litreally everywhere in Europe.If we talk about Islamic terrorists in the last five years, idk, you did have the Boston Marathon bombing, in the last couple months I suppose so. If we talk about Domestic Terrorism, the US got Europe beat handily again
Originally posted by Bardock42
Can you point out what part of this you mean and how it is related to what I said, because such a data dump without context is really hard to parse.
Errr I was posting from my cell phone so I thought it had domestic terrorism stats by country but they don't. Here's one.
http://www.terrorismanalysts.com/pt/index.php/pot/article/view/89/html
Table one shows terrorism stats by country but doesn't specify domestic/foreign.
Table two does the same thing. As you can see, there are quite a few countries ahead of us. It's really to counter the claim you made about US having more domestic terrorism. I don't know how you'd support that claim.
Originally posted by psmith81992
Errr I was posting from my cell phone so I thought it had domestic terrorism stats by country but they don't. Here's one.http://www.terrorismanalysts.com/pt/index.php/pot/article/view/89/html
Table one shows terrorism stats by country but doesn't specify domestic/foreign.
Table two does the same thing. As you can see, there are quite a few countries ahead of us. It's really to counter the claim you made about US having more domestic terrorism. I don't know how you'd support that claim.
I only made the claim regarding Europe, however if we do go that far back (to 1970) you are correct that Northern Ireland, Italy and Spain having had severe problems before the the new millennium are ahead. Nowadays however no European country is ahead of the US.