He's listed as Mid-Herald and his most classic version is with it so I'm sure the votes took that into account.
As for the Silver Surfer debate, no.
Martian Manhunter, maybe. He has a few obvious weaknesses that are well known and his 1 on 1 with other heavy hitters never really end well for him. It's his feats outside of direct combat that make him so powerful and (potentially) deadly. As for the New 52 version, haven't read enough to take part in the conversation.
Originally posted by Blair Wind
He's listed as Mid-Herald and his most classic version is with it so I'm sure the votes took that into account.As for the Silver Surfer debate, no.
Martian Manhunter, maybe. He has a few obvious weaknesses that are well known and his 1 on 1 with other heavy hitters never really end well for him. It's his feats outside of direct combat that make him so powerful and (potentially) deadly. As for the New 52 version, haven't read enough to take part in the conversation.
Your face is not infallible.
As is your ninja edit.
Well, as I castigated carver for doing exactly what I'm doing, I'll hold my peace. My views on Warlock with the Soul Gem is already posted - I'll let the others take it to a vote.
Originally posted by Blair Wind
He's listed as Mid-Herald and his most classic version is with it so I'm sure the votes took that into account.As for the Silver Surfer debate, no.
Martian Manhunter, maybe. He has a few obvious weaknesses that are well known and his 1 on 1 with other heavy hitters never really end well for him. It's his feats outside of direct combat that make him so powerful and (potentially) deadly. As for the New 52 version, haven't read enough to take part in the conversation.
Disagree. The soul gem obviously puts him above that tier imo. My vote is Nay on him being used.
I agree with Martian Manhunter. He is above the Mid tier. I think Black Adam is as well.
Originally posted by Blair WindSure, though he was the first name listed in High when the tiers were in the Comic Forum.
First name listed in Mid.Pretty sure Digi would agree with his placement. He hasn't been on KMC in a few days though, anyone have access to him outside of it? Newjack or Leo?
Aside from Warlock, I think we need to revisit Absorbing Man, and the amping rule. I basically think that the Nth metal + grow strategy was clearly amping. I think touching the soul gem may violate the same rule, so...
Thoughts on amping, everybody?
Originally posted by Smurph
Sure, though he was the first name listed in High when the tiers were in the Comic Forum.Aside from Warlock, I think we need to revisit Absorbing Man, and the amping rule. I basically think that the Nth metal + grow strategy was clearly amping. I think touching the soul gem may violate the same rule, so...
Thoughts on amping, everybody?
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It's amping. I'm surprised the judges did not mention that.
warlock has literally handed the ss his head on at least 2 occasions. he's tough to gauge accurately because he has lost a couple times as well. he has beaten mephisto in hell too of course. he's a bit plot devicey, and those guys are always hard to accurately assess. would i be in favor of letting him in this? no, i'd say he should be left out for a couple of reasons.
Originally posted by Smurph
Sure, though he was the first name listed in High when the tiers were in the Comic Forum.Aside from Warlock, I think we need to revisit Absorbing Man, and the amping rule. I basically think that the Nth metal + grow strategy was clearly amping. I think touching the soul gem may violate the same rule, so...
Thoughts on amping, everybody?
I don't/didn't see the touching Nth metal and growing as amping. I saw it as increasing the amount of Nth metal. Had BW not shown the feat of Hawkman "drawing on the magnetic force of the planet" to hit Superman with the force of a planet with the largest known purest piece of Nth metal that exists.
You'll notice that in my ruling pretty much ALL I allowed of that strategy was the fact that It DQ'd the TP and energy manip of Decter's build (pretty much making all his attacks null). Had BW not had a brilliant scientist who knew how to utilize magneitcs for those effects in the mix as well as someone with the knowledge of Nth metal like HM that wouldn't have flown in my book (nopthing I can think of would have allowed HM to do teh same without Pym knowledge).
On the other hand doing the same to say a power gem IMHO would then encompass power mimicry not absorbing. That by the rules isn't allowed. If I were judging a match where such a tactic were done then I would rule that as a breach of the rules.
Absorning man's power to become what he touches allowing him to take on the properties of a substance/ object is one thing, gaining the powers granted by something like a power gem is something else again.
You just described power unlock.
Just because it unlocks powers that are provided by increasing Nth metal, and just because Pym and Hawkman have the combined experience to wield their new power, doesn't make it not power unlock.
If I draft Lightray and Supergirl, and use Lightray to make a sun, and then show that it's just increasing the amount of sunlight available to Kara, and Supergirl has the experience to use increased power - it's still power unlock/amping, per the rules.
Anyways, the previous match is settled and judged, but it we've changed the standard for legal power amps then it will change my drafts so I'd like to address this head on: is Blaire's strategy still allowed?
Originally posted by Smurph
You just described power unlock.Just because it unlocks powers that are provided by increasing Nth metal, and just because Pym and Hawkman have the combined experience to wield their new power, doesn't make it not power unlock.
If I draft Lightray and Supergirl, and use Lightray to make a sun, and then show that it's just increasing the amount of sunlight available to Kara, and Supergirl has the experience to use increased power - it's still power unlock/amping, per the rules.
Anyways, the previous match is settled and judged, but it we've changed the standard for legal power amps then it will change my drafts so I'd like to address this head on: is Blaire's strategy still allowed?
No I didn't. As I said had there not been a feat of HM actually using the Nth metal to the level of "drawing on the magnetic force of a planet" . Or a feat of him using his connection to the claw to take control of all Synn's Nth and use it against him I wouldn't have allowed it.
All I did allow in my judgement was the drawing on the Nth metal to perform feats of the character with the knowledge to do so in the build. That could have been achieved with the amount of Nth metal that is present in the Claw of Horus alone (which is no more than Creel's fore arm, not his entire body, and not his body grown to 200 feet). Having Pym's brain simply meant that a more technical application of the use of that level of magnetic force could be used.
If it wasn't clear in my ruling I apologize, but I never allowed the use of Nth above the level HM had been shown to use in on panel feats. The claw isn't standard gear for HM, absorbing man touching and growing gives more Nth metal than the claw does. How can it be an unlock or an amp when all I allowed was power application UP TO the level shown by the character in the build with MUCH less Nth metal than the scenario presented gave???
It's not an unlock if all I allowed was the use of it up to the level it's been shown to be used. The only difference was that I allowed a more technical application of it than HM has been shown to have. Magneto can manipulate magnetic force on a planetary level (as per the HM scan with the claw) and can accomplish everything that I allowed. In fact the evidence offered for how it could be accomplished was all at or below the level of Mag's. He has knowledge below Pym in sciences (though likely equal in magnetics), Pym simply allowed the build to know how to use that level of magnetic power in a more subtle way.
One is a case of taking actual examples of a character included in the build using the abject in question to the exact same level with a different application on two occasions. The other is completely extrapolating what "might have been" had this this and that occurred.
1. Hawkman’s feats vs Ominar Synn’s. The simple fact is BW showed HM drawing on the entire elecgtro-magnetic spectum of earth to hit superman. That IS HM manipulating electro-magnetics on a planetary level. He’s doing so with a few pounds of Nth meta, having vastly more means greater scale. Certainly enough to show that the plan in respect to nullifying powers would work2. Hawkman actually used the claw of Horus to wrest control of all the Nth metal from Synn to effect victory. He was able to do this because ____a) The claw is the3 largest piece of pure nth metal known to exist _____ and_________ b) he has a strong connection to the claw due to his history with it and the psychic sensitive nature of Nth. This pretty much shows that Carter IS capable of controlling Nth to the degree of Synn.
3. Mr Terrific actually created devices that could bend space with minute amounts of Nth metal based on what information Hawkman gave him. He created a working teleporter that he stated he needed more power for BECAUSE of the limited amount of Nth metal at his disposal
4. Creating Black holes. This one I don’t buy. Not even Synn with centuries of experience in the use of nth metal has demonstrated anywhere near this capacity. Adding the Knowledge of Pym doesn’t suddenly make us capable of something never before seen possible with what is in the fight.
5. Drawing on the magnetic core isn’t an amp as it’s something that we have already seen the character do in their own right. If I were to allow that line to be drawn than Dr light is completely use;ess as a character as without light around for him to use and “amp” on he has NO POWER.
As you can see all I allowed was the use of the magnetic force to nullify the powers as per BW's plan NOT anything else. There wasn't a need as his opponent didn't address that except for the fact that he deemed it as illegal because it was an amp. I couldn't rule it illegal when it was shown that the character had achieved magnetic manipulation to that level and I was aware of other instances which verified it. I never on the other hand allowed the other applications of the Nth that exceeded that level (or in fact any showing of the use of Nth). They would have been an amp.