Originally posted by SurturYes but when you say both sides are to blame it comes off as you are saying, "She got what she deserved and that the blame is equal among them for the actions taken." Perhaps that is not what you meant but that's what it comes off as. Also it makes it sound like you are saying they both share blame for the actions of the officer.
Well again a person can acknowledge both sides share blame(like you yourself did) without it meaning they hold both sides equally responsible.
Originally posted by Newjak
Yes but when you say both sides are to blame it comes off as you are saying, "She got what she deserved and that the blame is equal among them for the actions taken." Perhaps that is not what you meant but that's what it comes off as. Also it makes it sound like you are saying they both share blame for the actions of the officer.
The problem though is I clarified multiple times what I meant by it and..we still have people yapping about strawmen and false equivalency and all that.
Originally posted by Surtur
But I said several times they are not equally to blame. You keep repeatedly illustrating the problem here. A person DARING to suggest the obnoxious student played her part in this is apparently automatically holding her to the same standards as the cop and placing equal blame on both parties.
you keep trying to sweep the point aside with your "BOTH SIDES ARE TO BLAME!!!1!" spam. it's a tired game. "ok, i acknowledged it, now let me get back to my lopsided assertions"
Originally posted by Surtur
The problem though is I clarified multiple times what I meant by it and..we still have people yapping about strawmen and false equivalency and all that.
quit your bellyaching. you committed textbook strawman as a totally mature reply to the false equivalency point:
Originally posted by Surtur
Shhh, student=angel, cop=devil. She was probably texting God on her cell phone or something, totally understandable.
Originally posted by Bashar Teg
you keep trying to sweep the point aside with your "BOTH SIDES ARE TO BLAME!!!1!" spam. it's a tired game. "ok, i acknowledged it, now let me get back to my lopsided assertions"
I pointed out both sides are to blame. The "game" is no more tired then whatever game you appear to be playing.
I mean plus do you really want to talk about games? Look at the thread title. Tell me it wasn't meant partially to bait people. The entire thread is a god damn game.
quit your bellyaching. you committed textbook strawman as a totally mature reply to the false equivalency point: [/B]
I also said I was simplifying it for you because you couldn't accept reality. I wasn't actually making that argument. So next.
Originally posted by SurturLike I said you may have been trying to clarify it but the way it comes is very different than what you are saying.
The problem though is I clarified multiple times what I meant by it and..we still have people yapping about strawmen and false equivalency and all that.
Let me ask you, do you feel that the girl shares blame for the actions the officer took?
If blame was a pie chart what percent of the blame would you give the girl.
Now I'm not talking how the encounter started I'm strictly speaking on the officer's actions at this point.
Hopefully we can get this cleared up.
Originally posted by Surtur
But it's not false equivalency because I never said she was being held to the same standards as the cop. Nobody said what they did was equally wrong. But it is utterly silly to try to act like both sides were not at fault.You throw the word equivalency around even though I never said they shared equal blame. I simply stated both sides are at fault, which is really about as debatable as 1+1 equaling 2.
Thank you for clarifying your point. Your statement did read as though you were comparing them equally to me.
And my statement was influenced not just by your post but also others regarding this subject (not just here but other places.) The local news here actually had a report saying that the "bigger picture" was about how children are being raised. This makes it sound like the girl's behavior was more important than the officer's. This is more of the false equivalency I'm speaking on. And, in this case, it really isn't relevant since the girl is apparently in foster care.
Originally posted by Newjak
Like I said you may have been trying to clarify it but the way it comes is very different than what you are saying.Let me ask you, do you feel that the girl shares blame for the actions the officer took?
If blame was a pie chart what percent of the blame would you give the girl.
Now I'm not talking how the encounter started I'm strictly speaking on the officer's actions at this point.
Hopefully we can get this cleared up.
She is to blame that the cop was needed at all. Did she cause him to brutalize her? Nope, but people can say what the cop did was wrong while acknowledging the shit should of never gotten to the point the teacher felt he was needed.
In other words she did not force the cop to brutalize her, she did force the teachers to get the guy involved.
Originally posted by Surtur
Okay so now it's just this girl was caught on a "really bad day" and that is why she was so obnoxious and gave two shits about authority?Please dude, people who act like this are most definitely repeat offenders. It's more then just a "bad day". This girl mouthed off or refused to obey a guy called OFFICER F'ING SLAM.
That is less having a bad day and more being a rotten spoiled brat who feels she can do whatever the hell she wants because..reasons. Now she gets her 15 minutes of fame and the victim card to play on top of all that. Why do I get the strange feeling none of that is going to change her for the better?
Let me reiterate. She'd recently lost her mother and was put into foster care. At sixteen years old. I lost my mom at 16, and I speak from personal experience...it makes you f*cking angry. Sad. Confused. All of that shit. You're literally a ball of emotion. I was skipping school, I almost beat this one guy down because he started talking trash after he heard me tell my friends my mom had just died. She was not in a happy place.
So maybe she mouthed off. Maybe she talked back. But the officer who responded is capable of benching 600lbs because he power lifts in his off time. Was force necessary? Not in my opinion, but if he felt so, he could have used a lot less than he did.
So sure the girl got him called, but he was the adult. He was the police officer. He is the one who is supposed to act like a professional. Instead of asking, "What's wrong? Why are you acting like this?" He turns it into an MMA match and slams her around.
There's no excuse for his actions, and they far outweigh what she did in simply disrupting the classroom.
Originally posted by KingD19
Let me reiterate. She'd recently lost her mother and was put into foster care. At sixteen years old. I lost my mom at 16, and I speak from personal experience...it makes you f*cking angry. Sad. Confused. All of that shit. You're literally a ball of emotion. I was skipping school, I almost beat this one guy down because he started talking trash after he heard me tell my friends my mom had just died. She was not in a happy place.So maybe she mouthed off. Maybe she talked back. But the officer who responded is capable of benching 600lbs because he power lifts in his off time. Was force necessary? Not in my opinion, but if he felt so, he could have used a lot less than he did.
So sure the girl got him called, but he was the adult. He was the police officer. He is the one who is supposed to act like a professional. Instead of asking, "What's wrong? Why are you acting like this?" He turns it into an MMA match and slams her around.
There's no excuse for his actions, and they far outweigh what she did in simply disrupting the classroom.
Exactly this.
I would also like to point out that Surtur's first post in this topic was calling the girl a b***h multiple time and attempting to justify the cop's reaction. In fact, most of his posts were focused on how the girl was at fault. So I can't really blame anyone else for assuming he's claiming equal responsibility here. His default here seems to be "victim blaming."
Originally posted by 80sBaby
I would also like to point out that Surtur's first post in this topic was calling the girl a b***h multiple time and attempting to justify the cop's reaction. In fact, most of his posts were focused on how the girl was at fault. So I can't really blame anyone else for assuming he's claiming equal responsibility here. His default here seems to be "victim blaming."
yyyyyyyyyyyyup!
Originally posted by KingD19
Let me reiterate. She'd recently lost her mother and was put into foster care. At sixteen years old. I lost my mom at 16, and I speak from personal experience...it makes you f*cking angry. Sad. Confused. All of that shit. You're literally a ball of emotion. I was skipping school, I almost beat this one guy down because he started talking trash after he heard me tell my friends my mom had just died. She was not in a happy place.So maybe she mouthed off. Maybe she talked back. But the officer who responded is capable of benching 600lbs because he power lifts in his off time. Was force necessary? Not in my opinion, but if he felt so, he could have used a lot less than he did.
So sure the girl got him called, but he was the adult. He was the police officer. He is the one who is supposed to act like a professional. Instead of asking, "What's wrong? Why are you acting like this?" He turns it into an MMA match and slams her around.
There's no excuse for his actions, and they far outweigh what she did in simply disrupting the classroom.
You think he could have maybe used his impressive 600lbs bench-pressing, girl-tossing strength and pushed her and her desk into the hallway and then had the school call her caretaker(s).
Originally posted by Robtard
You think he could have maybe used his impressive 600lbs bench-pressing, girl-tossing strength and pushed her and her desk into the hallway and then had the school call her caretaker(s).
It certainly would have been easier. She probably would have been too shocked at his freakish strength if he just walked her outside to "hit him". And he's still have a job.