There is evidence suggesting that the Presence wasn't talking about the writers.
If you're going for a laptop get an MSI; or if you're on a budget, an Acer.
Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
My MSI laptop stopped booting all of a sudden after only like 3+ years of use.
Originally posted by Galan007
That's actually really good to know. Evidently it's a Toshiba thing. 👆But like I said: mine ended up blue-screening on me. Totally fried(lost my entire collection of animated series' 🙁.) Hopefully yours doesn't get to that level.
That's horrible. Although im prepared for such disasters; everything important i have it saved on a hard drive. You should do the same.
Originally posted by Astner
There is evidence suggesting that the Presence wasn't talking about the writers.If you're going for a laptop get an MSI; or if you're on a budget, an Acer.
What the **** did you do to it?
Thinkpads from Lenovo (or IBM if you go back further) are good as well.
Originally posted by Astner
There is evidence suggesting that the Presence wasn't talking about the writers.If you're going for a laptop get an MSI; or if you're on a budget, an Acer.
What the **** did you do to it?
Hmm. that's interesting. I remember Sandman #18, in that comic we see an alternate reality where cats dreamed they were the rulers of the universe and through dream's power, they were. Although i dont know how that links to the presence. Is Carey saying that someone shaped/dreamed the Presence into being? Seems like that, but the million dollar question is who.
Originally posted by AstnerThere is evidence suggesting that the Presence wasn't talking about the writers.
"In the cat story, the cats only changed reality on a planetary scale, so there weren't enough of them to effect multiversal beings
like Dream of the Endless. If, on the other hand all beings across the multiverse "dreamed" hard enough, then they would,
under this interpretation, be able to change the structure of the entire cosmos, its omnipotent included."
"What I get from this is that what people think of what a supreme being is, is what The Presence kinda molds into."
"More or less, though I think His statement is a little more extreme than that...
He said that He was shaped, not is being shaped by external forces,
so his dependence upon those forces is implied. If we take it for granted that those forces are, as confirmed here,
the desires and intentions of sentient beings, that means that
without those beings, the Presence could not exist.
Now this is where it seems to me to coincide with Buddhist and Hindu Tantra- in that view,
the heart or essence of beings actually is immortal, indestructible, and endowed with qualities.
However, since time without beginning, beings have been afflicted with ignorance, and so wrongly believed in self and other,
and then, the process now out of our control, created and are still creating the bodies and worlds we inhabit.
Thus, all of reality is, quite literally, a dream. It's a projection created by our ignorance and habitual tendencies.
Of course the flip side of this view is that, like in Gaiman's story, we can reshape reality by redirecting our intentions and energies.
The Presence is eternal then because beings are eternal, and just wrongly believe in life and death, self and other, and so on.
Omnipotence, afterall, depends are there being other things to be
omnipotent over. Without an ordered cosmos, dreamed up by the
countless beings in the DC/Vertigo multiverse, the Presence wouldn't be the Presence."
Originally posted by Mr Master
I noticed that prior. Good friend Zop was incorrect on that one old buddy.I posted in response what he was referring to, which wasn't in the next story or any W&IW books.
It's actually from "Chronicles" ...
... "The Living Tribunal, the servant [b]of the ONE
who is above even Gods."(Full Page)
[img=http://s6d7.turboimg.net/t/24488350_Haters.jpg]
------------------------------------------------
As you can see, Adam is referring to TOAA, not to the LT. 🙂
TOAA > GOD ... [/B]
i'll trust you that there is no more explicit statement than that, but that was a minor point in any event in what i was saying. as i said--my MAIN point was the conflating of lt's representation of toaa and his having the power of said being. i think it is evident that lt>ig. in the scene you posted (which may have been the one zop was talking about, or not, i have no idea what he was trying to get at...) he says he was ordered to give up his power, and he did. it was always pretty clear to me that, while it may have taken a fight, lt would have won. further confirmed by lt's ability to render the ig powerless. all of that just goes to confirm that god>>>>>lt>ig. the difference is likely greater than that though, as lt confirmed toaa dwarfed the ig. completely different levels of infinite power are being compared here.
Originally posted by operator616
Hmm. that's interesting. I remember Sandman #18, in that comic we see an alternate reality where cats dreamed they were the rulers of the universe and through dream's power, they were. Although i dont know how that links to the presence. Is Carey saying that someone shaped/dreamed the Presence into being?Seems like that, but the million dollar question is who.
Originally posted by Astnera.) This isn't proof of anything, tbh. This is one guy on the internet telling us what Mike Carey's alleged response was to a question he allegedly asked, with no actual evidence to substantiate his claim.
There is evidence suggesting that the Presence wasn't talking about the writers.
b.) Sandman #18(the issue referenced in that guy's post) introduced the concept that 'dreams shape reality':
http://i.imgur.com/QWkFwy2.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/EzRhw5e.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/5AwmUkc.jpg
So implying that dreams are what shaped THE God/Supreme Being, implies that Dream of the Endless =/> God... Which we know is definitely NOT the case.
So yeah, that wouldn't even be canonically accurate.
Originally posted by operator616Oh I do. All of my important family pics, comics, movies, etc. are on my primary external HD, and then secondarily backed-up on a few other external HDs.
That's horrible. Although im prepared for such disasters; everything important i have it saved on a hard drive. You should do the same.
For some reason I just hadn't yet backed-up those animated series' when the computer crashed on me. Oh well... I'd MUCH rather loose a few dozen animated films, then 4TB worth of comics, lol.
Yeah, that does actually imply that dream is above the Presence which doesn't make sense.
Originally posted by Mr Master
Now this is where it seems to me to coincide with Buddhist and Hindu Tantra- in that view,
the heart or essence of beings actually is immortal, indestructible, and endowed with qualities.
However, since time without beginning, beings have been afflicted with ignorance, and so wrongly believed in self and other,
and then, the process now out of our control, created and are still creating the bodies and worlds we inhabit.
Thus, all of reality is, quite literally, a dream. It's a projection created by our ignorance and habitual tendencies.
Of course the flip side of this view is that, like in Gaiman's story, we can reshape reality by redirecting our intentions and energies.
This reminds me:
if Carey is saying that the Presence is dependent on his creations that also contradicts other accounts which say the exact opposite. Dr Fate v2 continually established that all of reality is a dream, the dream of God. And each soul is part of the oversoul which is God. Basically, everyone and everything is part of God when we take off the illusion of so called "reality" (similar to the "Brahman" concept in Hinduism) . So how can he be dependent upon things .... which are essentially part of himself?
Originally posted by Galan007
a.) This isn't proof of anything, tbh. This is one guy on the internet telling us what Mike Carey's alleged response was to a question he allegedly asked, with no actual evidence to substantiate his claim.
Originally posted by Galan007
b.) Sandman #18(the issue referenced in that guy's post) introduced the concept that 'dreams shape reality':
http://i.imgur.com/QWkFwy2.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/EzRhw5e.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/5AwmUkc.jpg
So implying that dreams are what shaped THE God/Supreme Being, implies that Dream of the Endless =/> God... Which we know is definitely NOT the case.So yeah, that wouldn't even be canonically accurate.
Originally posted by Galan007Where do you keep your nudes of kmc members?
Oh I do. All of my important family pics, comics, movies, etc. are on my primary external HD, and then secondarily backed-up on a few other external HDs.For some reason I just hadn't yet backed-up those animated series' when the computer crashed on me. Oh well... I'd MUCH rather loose a few dozen animated films, then 4TB worth of comics, lol.
Originally posted by operator616👆
Yeah, that does actually imply that dream is above the Presence which doesn't make sense.This reminds me:
if Carey is saying that the Presence is dependent on his creations that also contradicts other accounts which say the exact opposite. Dr Fate v2 continually established that all of reality is a dream, the dream of God. And each soul is part of the oversoul which is God. Basically, everyone and everything is part of God when we take off the illusion of so called "reality" (similar to the "Brahman" concept in Hinduism) . So how can he be dependent upon things .... which are essentially part of himself?
Obviously God(in the sense that we're referencing him in this thread) isn't reliant on the dreams of others to exist. If he were, then Dream of the Endless would hold some degree of power over him. We know this is definitely NOT the case, based on Morpheus himself telling us where his power stood in comparison to Lucifer(who is < The Presence):
Additionally, if The Presence were reliant on the dreams of others to exist, then the dreamers would have to predate him--which they obviously/canonically do not. First came The Presence. Then came Michael/Lucifer. Then came everything else.
![[img=http://s6d7.turboimg.net/t/24488350_Haters.jpg]](http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/24488350/Haters.jpg.html){kind=link}
