Originally posted by Galan007
Here's the battle between Warlock and Magus /w/ Incomplete IG,
from Fantastic Four #370(I know you've seen it,
because you've cropped panels from it in the past):
Originally posted by Galan007
But yes, in GotG #33,
Strange notes that he can see/sense/feel the residual time-ripples generated from the above scuffle:
But there's another hidden portrayal that elaborates on the details of the extent of what happened. 🙂
Those time-ripples are being noted around the GotG universe which is an alternate reality 1000 years in the future.
And Dr Strange also used them as a guide home:
[img=http://s5d3.turboimagehost.com/t/18603272_IG_Entire_Multiverse5.jpg]
... so the time-ripples extended across many universes. perhaps all.
Interesting.
That may have come from this part of their battle:
When Warlock and Magus struggled over the Incomplete IG, a confrontation spanning Countless "Physical Planes" (universeS)
[img=http://s5d3.turboimagehost.com/t/18603263_IG_Entire_Multiverse1.jpg]
... very interesting ... (imo though, it was when Eternity/Infinity joined and all hell broke loose)
-----------------------------------------------------
Kavanagh (MoonKnight writer) told us: Magus/Warlock battle was for the fate of the entire Multiverse.
[img=http://s5d3.turboimagehost.com/t/18603265_IG_Entire_Multiverse2.jpg]
... "cataclysmic events elsewhere seal the fate of the entire Multiverse"
-----------------------------------------------------
We're given further clarification with another on panel illustration that their struggle was Multiversal ...
.... because they ended up at "the farthest edges of the Multiverse:"
Where "Reality explodes!
[img=http://s5d3.turboimagehost.com/t/18603267_IG_Entire_Multiverse3.jpg]
That's when Eternity/Infinity joined the fun.
-----------------------------------------------------
This must've meant the Multiverse exploding because from the farthest edges of the Multiverse,
the 616 Universe was destroyed in the crescendo of the battle,
and then remade by incomplete IG/Warlock:
[img=http://s5d3.turboimagehost.com/t/18603269_IG_Entire_Multiverse4.jpg]
[img=http://s5d4.turboimagehost.com/t/18603963_IG_Entire_Multiverse6.jpg]
-----------------------------------------------------
I remember what Jim Starlin said when Magus's incomplete IG first functioned:
"A moment's difference and the fate of an entire Actuality changes"
... that's also interesting ...
-----------------------------------------------------
Because remember these guys who could care less about the 616 Universe's destruction?
An obvious representation of Multiversal embodiments on Starlin's part?
He called them, ... an Actuality!
"Before you stands the embodiment of Actuality" (Eternity and Infinity)
-----------------------------------------------------
All very interesting. stoned
Originally posted by Mr MasterI know you have been reminded of this before, but those cropped panels are quite misleading to those who haven't read the comic for themselves.
That may have come from this part of their battle:When Warlock and Magus struggled over the Incomplete IG, a confrontation spanning Countless "Physical Planes" (universeS)
[img=http://s5d3.turboimagehost.com/t/18603263_IG_Entire_Multiverse1.jpg]
... very interesting ... (imo though, it was when Eternity/Infinity joined and all hell broke loose)
Here's the entire segment of that page:
"A desperate battle fought across countless physical and astral planes! [...] For the fate of the UNIVERSE!" (singular)
Whole page:
http://i.imgur.com/8ZKRRmz.jpg
The same type of distinction was made a few pages later in the very same issue:
Reed suggests shifting into an alternate plane of reality as a means of escape. Galactus notes that doing so would only delay the inevitable, as the destruction of himself, and the rest of the UNIVERSE (singular), is imminent.
Whole page:
http://i.imgur.com/CUg4cxd.jpg
Originally posted by Mr MasterWhole scene:
We're given further clarification with another on panel illustration that their struggle was [b]Multiversal ....... because they ended up at "the farthest edges of the Multiverse:"
Where "Reality explodes!
[img=http://s5d3.turboimagehost.com/t/18603267_IG_Entire_Multiverse3.jpg]
That's when Eternity/Infinity joined the fun.
-----------------------------------------------------
This must've meant the Multiverse exploding because from the farthest edges of the Multiverse,
the 616 Universe was destroyed in the crescendo of the battle,
and then remade by incomplete IG/Warlock:[img=http://s5d3.turboimagehost.com/t/18603269_IG_Entire_Multiverse4.jpg]
[img=http://s5d4.turboimagehost.com/t/18603963_IG_Entire_Multiverse6.jpg][/B]
As mentioned in the first scan: the battle between Warlock and Magus was taking place at "the farthest edges of the multiverse", but as the last scan states: the UNIVERSE (singular) was in danger of being "rent asunder."
ie. The first scan refers to location. The last scan refers to the scope of destruction. Imo.
But yeah, some scenes are definitely more ambiguous than others. 👆
Originally posted by Galan007I know you have been reminded of this before
but those cropped panels are quite misleading to those who haven't read the comic for themselves.
So Mxy fixed nothing more than a single Dimension in Emperor Joker's arc?
And .. it took him 5 Hours to do so.
That's what was stated at the end. Regardless that you see more being done by Mxy due to logic.
"Logic" ... cause nothing was stated about Mxy touching even an atom outside Superman's universe.
I guess "logic" concerning Marvel doesn't work. 🙁
Originally posted by Galan007Here's the entire segment of that page:
"A desperate battle fought across countless physical and astral planes! [...] For the fate of the UNIVERSE!" (singular)
Whole page:
http://i.imgur.com/8ZKRRmz.jpgThe same type of distinction was made a few pages later in the very same issue:
Reed suggests shifting into an alternate plane of reality as a means of escape. Galactus notes that doing so would only delay the inevitable, as the destruction of himself, and the rest of the UNIVERSE (singular), is imminent.
Whole page:
http://i.imgur.com/CUg4cxd.jpg
So, in some mysterious way, the affect of Magus/Warlock battling and then Eternity/Infinity joining
was swirling around the Alternate Reality (691) 1000+ Years in the Future.
"Time ripples ... a residual effect left over from the Infinity War.
That explains how Guardians will return to their Alternate Future while I arrive in my own Timeline"
The "Ripples" stretched across all Time it seems. That's so many universeS!
Dr Strange and GOTG used them as a guide to travel across who knows how many universeS.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
How do you reconcile that if all that was affected was a single universe? 😐
Originally posted by Galan007Whole scene:
1) ... http://i.imgur.com/ahiL25J.jpg
2) ... http://i.imgur.com/Zf3OHPX.jpg
3) ... http://i.imgur.com/vj5TAfv.jpg
4) ... http://i.imgur.com/rJcqTFM.jpg
5) ... http://i.imgur.com/PfJRPF5.jpg
6) ... http://i.imgur.com/jmoe8kf.jpgAs mentioned in the first scan: the battle between Warlock and Magus was taking place at "the farthest edges of the MULTIVERSE",
but as the last scan states: the UNIVERSE (singular) was in danger of being "rent asunder."
I'm confused how only 616 was destroyed from way out there. hm
------------------------------------------------------
Scans 2 and 4 - 5 are completely meaningless. But I won't call it "misleading."
------------------------------------------------------
Scan 3, is referring to the 616 reality ending, and somehow they're still alive. (Warlock/IG remake)
Scan 6, Kavanagh tells us 616 was destroyed and via Reed highlights how Warlock fixed everything.
But you realize Kavanagh is specifying that reality (even IN a universe rent asunder)
cause that's the reality being entered by the FF at that precise moment.
Kavanagh goes on via Reed and Sue and says:
"Warlock used IG to restore reality" ... "Or at-least what passes for it around here"
Exactly ... "Reality" ... is not the same in every universe. 👆
Originally posted by Galan007ie. The first scan refers to location.
The last scan refers to the scope of destruction. Imo.
So, you're saying that singular 616 Eternity/Infinity were dancing with Magus at the edges of the MULITIVERSE? ...
(WAY outside their own universe)
... and not only that, but they EXPLODED Reality from WAY out there, but only 616 got touched?
-------------------------------------------------
*** I disagree, completely good friend.
The Dr Strange portrayal makes the case for me, imo.
Originally posted by Galan007
I know you have been reminded of this before, but those cropped panels are quite misleading to those who haven't read the comic for themselves.Here's the entire segment of that page:
"A desperate battle fought across countless physical and astral planes! [...] For the fate of the UNIVERSE!" (singular)
Whole page:
http://i.imgur.com/8ZKRRmz.jpgThe same type of distinction was made a few pages later in the very same issue:
Reed suggests shifting into an alternate plane of reality as a means of escape. Galactus notes that doing so would only delay the inevitable, as the destruction of himself, and the rest of the UNIVERSE (singular), is imminent.
Whole page:
http://i.imgur.com/CUg4cxd.jpgWhole scene:
http://i.imgur.com/ahiL25J.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/Zf3OHPX.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/vj5TAfv.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/rJcqTFM.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/PfJRPF5.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/jmoe8kf.jpgAs mentioned in the first scan: the battle between Warlock and Magus was taking place at "the farthest edges of the multiverse", but as the last scan states: the UNIVERSE (singular) was in danger of being "rent asunder."
ie. The first scan refers to location. The last scan refers to the scope of destruction. Imo.
But yeah, some scenes are definitely more ambiguous than others. 👆
👆
😆
Originally posted by Mr MasterThe hell?
I'm gonna throw that back at ya now.So Mxy fixed nothing more than a single Dimension in Emperor Joker's arc?
And .. it took him 5 Hours to do so.
That's what was stated at the end. Regardless that you see more being done by Mxy due to logic.
"Logic" ... cause nothing was stated about Mxy touching even an atom outside Superman's universe.
I guess "logic" concerning Marvel doesn't work. 🙁
You're obviously upset that I pointed out your misleading cropped panels, and are bringing up an entirely unrelated topic as a means of lashing out. That's fine. If you'd like to go there, we can. 🙂
Mxy fixed the universe after Joker warped the crap out of it, yes. I have NEVER argued otherwise, nor have I cropped scans in an effort to purposefully mislead people into thinking otherwise. All I have ever said is that Emperor Joker possessed multiversal/multidimensional INFLUENCE... Because he did. On-panel feats/statements prove this.
Why did it take Mxy 5 hours to fix Joker's mess? Because Joker's unadept manipulations of reality tore the fundamental fabric of existence so extensively that the damage was nearly irreversible. On-panel feats/statements also prove this.
So can we move on now, or would would like to continue talking about an irrelevant topic? 🙂
Originally posted by Mr MasterI sequentially posted the full(key word) scans/statements that you did not... Directly from the comics in question. That isn't misleading, lol. To the contrary, that is simply giving the full context behind the entire scene.
Interesting.So, in some mysterious way, the affect of Magus/Warlock battling and then Eternity/Infinity joining
(691) 1000+ Years in the Future.
[b]was swirling around the Alternate Reality"Time ripples ... a residual effect left over from the Infinity War.
That explains how Guardians will return to their Alternate Future while I arrive in my own Timeline"The "Ripples" stretched across all Time it seems. That's so many universeS!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
How do you reconcile that if all that was affected was a single universe? 😐
Scan 1 ... details where they are when "Reality explodes" (edges of the MULTIVERSE)
I'm confused how only 616 was destroyed from way out there. hm
------------------------------------------------------
Scans 2 and 4 - 5 are completely meaningless. But I won't call it "misleading."
------------------------------------------------------
Scan 3, is referring to the 616 reality ending, and somehow they're still alive. (Warlock/IG remake)
Scan 6, Kavanagh tells us 616 was destroyed and via Reed highlights how Warlock fixed everything.
But you realize Kavanagh is specifying that reality (even IN a universe rent asunder)
cause that's the reality being entered by the FF at that precise moment.
Kavanagh goes on via Reed and Sue and says:"Warlock used IG to restore reality" ... "Or at-least what passes for it around here"
Exactly ... "Reality" ... is not the same in every universe. 👆
Interesting, so from "the farthest edges of the MULTIVERSE" ... only 616 explodes.
So, you're saying that singular 616 Eternity/Infinity were dancing with Magus at the edges of the MULITIVERSE? ...
(WAY outside their own universe)
... and not only that, but they EXPLODED Reality from WAY out there, but only 616 got touched?
-------------------------------------------------
*** I disagree, completely good friend.
The Dr Strange portrayal makes the case for me, imo. [/B]
Anyway, it doesn't really matter to me whether the Warlock/Magus feat was universal or multiversal--Lucifer still wins regardless. However, I did feel the need to point out that the word "UNIVERSE"(singular) was explicitly used in a few of the scans you posted. Whether or not you agree is your prerogative. 👆
Originally posted by Galan007
The hell?You're obviously upset that I pointed out your misleading cropped panels, and are bringing up an entirely unrelated topic as a means of lashing out. That's fine. If you'd like to go there, we can.
Originally posted by Galan007
Mxy fixed the universe after Joker warped the crap out of it, yes. I have NEVER argued otherwise, nor have I cropped scans in an effort to purposefully mislead people into thinking otherwise. All I have ever said is that Emperor Joker possessed multiversal/multidimensional INFLUENCE... Because he did. On-panel feats/statements prove this.
Because that's what's on panel.
Unless we're to believe that from the "farthest edges of the MULTIVERSE" only 616 was affected. 😐
Originally posted by Galan007
Why did it take Mxy 5 hours to fix Joker's mess? Because Joker's unadept manipulations of reality tore the fundamental fabric of existence so extensively that the damage was nearly irreversible. On-panel feats/statements also prove this.
But if we look at the whole picture (other books of the arc) we realize there's more to it. Which I agree.
This is no different than my case.
Originally posted by Galan007
So can we move on now, or would would like to continue talking about an irrelevant topic?
Same thing with Elaine,
if you only read that single book where the Universe ends, you would never imagine there was more to it.
Originally posted by Galan007
I sequentially posted the full(key word) scans/statements that you did not... Directly from the comics in question. That isn't misleading, lol. To the contrary, that is simply giving the full context behind the entire scene.
Originally posted by Galan007
Anyway, it doesn't really matter to me whether the Warlock/Magus feat was universal or multiversal--Lucifer still wins regardless.
Originally posted by Galan007
However, I did feel the need to point out that the word "UNIVERSE"(singular) was explicitly used in a few of the scans you posted.
Whether or not you agree is your prerogative likewise. 👆
btw. You didn't address my points concerning major discrepancies in your "universal" view of the action.
Originally posted by Mr MasterIt is absolutely a provable opinion if you're willing to use a bit of common sense.
An unprovable opinion, but respected.
As I said earlier: Lucifer possesses truly infinite will. This enabled him warp/mold the sum total of God's truly infinite Demiurgic energies to his whim. I know you're familiar with the 'levels of infinity' concept that exists in comics. This is an important concept here, because God's energies obviously represent THE absolute greatest 'level of infinity' that can exist. Period. Lucifer's power of will is equally as infinite.
In a nutshell: God's energies > IG's energies. So if Lucifer commanded the former, logic dictates that he can command the latter as well... Much easier, in fact.
Originally posted by Mr MasterI merely reiterated what was stated on the pages of the comic book. No more, no less. Whether or not you agree is your prerogative. 👆
btw. You didn't address my points concerning major discrepancies in your "universal" view of the action.
Originally posted by Galan007
Sure I did
btw. The scan you put up where Galactus says that even an Alternate reality is no escape.
Galactus and heroes were not in 616 when he said that.
They were like over 100 universeS away from 616. 👆
Originally posted by Galan007
Lucifer possesses truly infinite will. This enabled him warp the sum total of God's truly infinite energies, to his whim. I know you're familiar with the 'levels of infinity' concept that exists in comics. This is an important concept here, because God's energies obviously represent the absolute greatest 'level of infinity' that can exist. Period.In a nutshell: God's energies>>>IG's energies. If Lucifer commanded the former, logic dictates that he can command the latter as well.
So much so that even TOAA's power was in question of being able to defeat it.
TOAA > GOD's energies
Since TOAA creates "infinite energy Gods" with the stroke of a pencil.
That speaks volumes of just how far up the bar the IG was.
------------------------------------------------
Let ask you something:
If the Presence attacks Lucifer, do you think Lucifer deflects the attack by controlling it?
facepalm ... Get personal when you can't counter. Cool. stoned
Originally posted by Galan007
In a nutshell: God's energies > IG's energies.
But in Marvel comics ... Warlock and the Infinity Watch#1,
... that was actually depicted/portrayed as an uncertainty.
You know the story, let me know if I need to post the scans.
Originally posted by Galan007
In a nutshell: God's energies > IG's energies.So if Lucifer commanded the former,
logic dictates that he can command the latter as well...
Much easier, in fact.
I command TOAA's power (truly God's energies) and I'm more powerful than you:
"An assertion yet to be proven"
--------------------------------------------
"Judge ... a representative of a power above myself ... hard to believe. I am omnipotence."
--------------------------------------------
The LT itself knew it would be a major battle to possibly defeat Warlock.
Adam: "Your duty ... forcibly separate the Gems from my person."
LT: "Such a confrontion would lay waste to this Reality"
--------------------------------------------
That's the LT packing TOAA's power and still ... stoned
Whether or not you agree is your prerogative. 👆
But there's no way in hell Lucy is beating this IG "easily," ... if at all.
Since we're reposting scans for no reason...
Lucifer had absolutely no problem manipulating the sum total of Michael's energy... Which literally IS the power of God... Which literally IS as infinite as energy can get.
Raphael: "Michael is a vessel for the Divine Power. If he dies --if that vessel cracks-- the worlds will be scoured clean of life. There will be nothing left.":
http://i.imgur.com/1kUKe5j.jpg
Michael: "There is a power within me. The Dunamis Demiurgos. God's power. When I die, it will pour out of me and overwhelm everything that exists.":
http://i.imgur.com/Yr4a38e.jpg
God: "Michael Demiurgos --spark that expands forever-- ocean of power with no shore.":
http://i.imgur.com/tjg1mkV.jpg
Here we see Michael actually put that power to work...
"Examine your own substance. Or that of anything you see --stars, stones, water, air-- look close enough and you will see Michael's will working there."
"That is impossible! What you suggest, only God can do!"
"He is the Demiurge. God chose him as his second. Now, as God's mark fades and creation falters, Michael renews it moment by moment. He writes God's name afresh on every atom of existence.":
http://i.imgur.com/biVHYbS.jpg
All of that being said, Lucifer effortlessly warped the totality of Michael's Demiurgic power --the literal/actual power of God-- into a physical creation of his own:
...He was also completely unfazed by energies of that magnitude(truly infinite energies) detonating in his face.
So yeah, in a PIS-free environment the IG isn't harming Lucifer unless he wants it to. This certainly doesn't degrade the IG, however. After all, Lucifer possesses infinite will--God's will(literally.) That's how he can do... What he does.
Do people just not understand the context behind what Lucifer did there..? Manipulating the totality of God's [truly infinite] power to one's whim is as uber as a feat can get. Period. LT questioning his power against the IG's is definitely not on par with the feat Lucifer actually preformed in the above scene... It's just not.
aside from that, all we know is lt represented a higher power. god? maybe. it's also a faulty assumption to state that lt had "god's power". at no point, anywhere, is that stated, nor is it said that lt was SUPPLIED with power. representing a higher power=/=possesses said 'higher powers' power. hell, that 'higher power' could be seen now to be the beyonders. 😂 regardless, lt never even said he represents a power that is INFINITE. and if the power he represents truly DID dwarf the IG, and that power was being...'supplied? accessed??' by lt (never stated or shown) then surely lt would have had no doubt he could take the IG, no? so, lt either...doesn't know wth he's talking about when it comes to this 'higher power', or....he really did NOT have access to that same might, in which case the whole analogy falls to sh!t.
on the flip side, god is explicitly stated in the case of lucifer, INFINITE power is mentioned by name, and SEEN on panel as it birthed a multiverse.
again, this isn't about bias, nor is it complicated. in one case, things need to be read INTO the issue, in the other case, everything is there, in black and white, on panel.
debating the supremacy of one supreme being over another is in all ways, asinine.
![[img=http://s5d3.turboimagehost.com/t/18603272_IG_Entire_Multiverse5.jpg]](http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/18603272/IG_Entire_Multiverse5.jpg.html){kind=link}
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![[img=http://s5d3.turboimagehost.com/t/18603265_IG_Entire_Multiverse2.jpg]](http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/18603265/IG_Entire_Multiverse2.jpg.html){kind=link}
![[img=http://s5d3.turboimagehost.com/t/18603267_IG_Entire_Multiverse3.jpg]](http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/18603267/IG_Entire_Multiverse3.jpg.html){kind=link}
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