The details aren't even out yet. Some say the pilot was warned several times others say the pilot only had a 2 to 3 seconds before it was shot down.
Turkey pretty much pulled a ***** move because they know they're backed by the EU. Putin seems reasonable enough to know that attacking Turkey will only backfire on him. I don't think he wants Russia vs world.
The narrative I've heard, that makes the most sense to me, is that both parties are more or less at fault. Russia has a history of not giving a **** about the restricted airspace of other countries and has been violating them for decades. Turkey on the other hand has had a long-standing rivalry with Russia and, as mentioned above, knows that it's backed by the EU and can afford to be petty.
The most likely scenario is that a Russian plane violated Turkey airspace- not seriously enough to warrant any real concern but enough to technically absolve Turkey of any blowback from the EU- and Turkey jumped on it as a show of force and to flip the bird at Russia.
And in the end... I really have no sympathy for Russia. The comic above is supposed to be a diss on Obama but frankly the only person who looks like an idiot in this situation is Putin. Russia has been a bully and a maverick for the entirety of their operations in the ME and this incident is an example of the chickens coming home to roost. If a dog sticks its nose in enough holes it's going to find a porcupine eventually. Hopefully the Bear will show a little discretion from hereon out.
How true is this?
Russian airstrike hits Turkish Convoy
Well, hoping this doesn't escalate things further.... >_<
Originally posted by Van Hohenheim
The details aren't even out yet. Some say the pilot was warned several times others say the pilot only had a 2 to 3 seconds before it was shot down.Turkey pretty much pulled a ***** move because they know they're backed by the EU. Putin seems reasonable enough to know that attacking Turkey will only backfire on him. I don't think he wants Russia vs world.
Originally posted by Tzeentch
The narrative I've heard, that makes the most sense to me, is that both parties are more or less at fault. Russia has a history of not giving a **** about the restricted airspace of other countries and has been violating them for decades. Turkey on the other hand has had a long-standing rivalry with Russia and, as mentioned above, knows that it's backed by the EU and can afford to be petty.The most likely scenario is that a Russian plane violated Turkey airspace- not seriously enough to warrant any real concern but enough to technically absolve Turkey of any blowback from the EU- and Turkey jumped on it as a show of force and to flip the bird at Russia.
And in the end... I really have no sympathy for Russia. The comic above is supposed to be a diss on Obama but frankly the only person who looks like an idiot in this situation is Putin. Russia has been a bully and a maverick for the entirety of their operations in the ME and this incident is an example of the chickens coming home to roost. If a dog sticks its nose in enough holes it's going to find a porcupine eventually. Hopefully the Bear will show a little discretion from hereon out.
I know you guys say Turkey is backed by the EU, but that's not really correct, Turkey is backed by NATO, which includes the US as well.
Originally posted by Bardock42Don't correct me in public, you ******** **** *** ***** ****ing **** ***** ****.
I know you guys say Turkey is backed by the EU, but that's not really correct, Turkey is backed by NATO, which includes the US as well.
Originally posted by Star428Yeah, getting shit on by Turkey and becoming a global laughing-stock is pretty manly, tbh fam. 👆
LOL. Obama isn't half the leader (or man) that Putin is.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-34941093
Turkey is pushing this slightly harder than I thought.
The analysis now is that if the jet flew over Turkish airspace, it was pretty momentary- most countries would, at most, send a couple of planes to escort an intruder out for that (In fact, the UK has done that once or twice- Russia often probes UK airspace at the North Sea).
Literally speaking, Turkey has the right to fire for that (and to be fair, they have long openly announced that they would do just that), but practically speaking, NATO must be pretty pissed that they've done it, particularly as NATO also has to stand up for Turkey now.
But Russia isn't going to get much sympathy for complaining about Turkey pushing the boundaries of the rules here because that's exactly what Russia itself does all the time. It's that same rule-pushing that has Russia bombing Turkish allies in Syria- Turkey claims they didn't know the plane was Russian but that's not easy to believe. Shooting down a Russian bomber is a statement of support to the Turcomen tribes they have pledged to protect.
So, then it all pans out as it has been so far- Russia protests strongly but can't do much; economic sanctions go up but Russia doesn't have that much leverage there.
Turkey could ride this one out with a quiet smile- but I'm less sure why they'd choose to escalate with that 'don't play with fire' comment at Russia. Turkey's already won this round of politics- they should leave it there.
I guess it's all talk in the end.
If Turkey has indeed told them repeatedly in the past not to violate their air space and then Russia still violated their air space then Russia brought this upon itself. It's not Turkey's fault they violated their airspace.
I am sure some people are pissed, but then I'm guessing Turkey is also pissed that Russia violated their airspace despite being repeatedly told not to do so.
Putin seems to think he can do whatever he wants and I hate to say it but..somebody needed to nip that little notion in the butt.
In other news "Erdogan" sounds like the name of a dragon.
Originally posted by Surtur
If Turkey has indeed told them repeatedly in the past not to violate their air space and then Russia still violated their air space then Russia brought this upon itself. It's not Turkey's fault they violated their airspace.I am sure some people are pissed, but then I'm guessing Turkey is also pissed that Russia violated their airspace despite being repeatedly told not to do so.
Putin seems to think he can do whatever he wants and I hate to say it but..somebody needed to nip that little notion in the butt.
In other news "Erdogan" sounds like the name of a dragon.
There's pissed and there's lethal force, and therein lies the dispute.
Like I said, most countries just escort intruders out. This is a spirit/letter of the law thing. In this particular case, even if thr Turks have the truth of this one, the Russians would have been in Turkish airspace for less than half a minute.
No-one really gets kudos for shooting a retreating target in the back. That's why I'm surprised Turkey is engaging with Putin's word war.
Originally posted by Ushgarak
There's pissed and there's lethal force, and therein lies the dispute.Like I said, most countries just escort intruders out. This is a spirit/letter of the law thing. In this particular case, even if thr Turks have the truth of this one, the Russians would have been in Turkish airspace for less than half a minute.
No-one really gets kudos for shooting a retreating target in the back. That's why I'm surprised Turkey is engaging with Putin's word war.
Half a minute or half a second is too much if they've been repeatedly told not to do this. Escorting Russia away doesn't teach them a lesson. This does. Next time they will think twice about doing this and if this situation doesn't cause them to think twice then it just shows Turkey did the right thing anyways.
There should be no word war, just simple truth from Turkey: you came into our airspace, we've repeatedly told you not to, you thought you had the right to do it anyways, you learned a tough lesson.
There should be no kudos, just the simple truth that this wouldn't of happened if they had not violated airspace. They should be glad that their stupid little mistake didn't cost one of their own pilots his life. People who play stupid games tend to get incredibly stupid prizes. How many people need to find this out the hard way? Russia did.