Originally posted by EmperordmbNo one at this point does but don't count your chickens before they are hatched. From what I heard a paramount executive talk about we might see some more badass Trek characters in the next film so tread carefully. Trek already has the tech advantage.
Then we'd have another Sith in the Disney continuity who would shit on Khan
It would really undermine Palpatine. Teehee.
Originally posted by quanchi112
Prove he had a huge surge in power.
--Taken from Darth Plagueis
Sidious' powers increase upon Plagueis' death.
A tremor took hold of the planet.
Sprung from death, it unleashed itself in a powerful wave, at once burrowing deep into the world’s core and radiating through its saccharine atmosphere to shake the stars themselves. At the quake’s epicenter stood Sidious, one elegant hand vised on the burnished sill of an expansive translucency, a vessel filled suddenly to bursting, the Force so strong within him that he feared he might disappear into it, never to return. But the moment didn’t constitute an ending so much as a true beginning, long overdue; it was less a transformation than an intensification—a gravitic shift.
A welter of voices, near and far, present and from eons past, drowned his thoughts. Raised in praise, the voices proclaimed his reign and cheered the inauguration of a new order. Yellow eyes lifted to the night sky, he saw the trembling stars flare, and in the depth of his being he felt the power of the dark side anoint him.
Slowly, almost reluctantly, he came back to himself, his gaze settling on his manicured hands. Returned to the present, he took note of his rapid breathing, while behind him the room labored to restore order. Air scrubbers hummed—costly wall tapestries undulating in the summoned breeze. Prized carpets sealed their fibers against the spread of spilled fluids. The droid shuffled in obvious confliction. Sidious pivoted to take in the disarray: antique furniture overturned; framed artwork askew. As if a whirlwind had swept through. And facedown on the floor lay a statue of Yanjon, one of four law-giving sages of Dwartii.
A piece Sidious had secretly coveted.
Also sprawled there, Plagueis: his slender limbs splayed and elongated head turned to one side. Dressed in finery, as for a night on the town.
And now dead.
Or was he?
Uncertainty rippled through Sidious, rage returning to his eyes. A tremor of his own making, or one of forewarning? Was it possible that the wily Muun had deceived him? Had Plagueis unlocked the key to immortality, and survived after all? Never mind that it would constitute a petty move for one so wise—for one who had professed to place the Grand Plan above all else. Had Plagueis become ensnared in a self-spun web of jealousy and possessiveness, victim of his own engineering, his own foibles?
If he hadn’t been concerned for his own safety, Sidious might have pitied him. Wary of approaching the corpse of his former Master, he called on the Force to roll the aged Muun over onto his back. From that angle Plagueis looked almost as he had when Sidious first met him, decades earlier: smooth, hairless cranium; humped nose, with its bridge flattened as if from a shock-ball blow and its sharp tip pressed almost to his upper lip; jutting lower jaw; sunken eyes still brimming with menace—a physical characteristic rarely encountered in a Muun. But then Plagueis had never been an ordinary Muun, nor an ordinary being of any sort.
Sidious took care, still reaching out with the Force. On closer inspection, he saw that Plagueis’s already cyanotic flesh was smoothing out, his features relaxing.
Faintly aware of the whir of air scrubbers and sounds of the outside world infiltrating the luxurious suite, he continued the vigil; then, in relief, he pulled himself up to his full height and let out his breath. This was no Sith trick. Not an instance of feigning death, but one of succumbing to its cold embrace. The being who had guided him to power was gone.
Wry amusement narrowed his eyes.
The Muun might have lived another hundred years unchanged. He might have lived forever had he succeeded fully in his quest. But in the end—though he could save others from death—he had failed to save himself.
A sense of supreme accomplishment puffed Sidious’s chest, and his thoughts unreeled.
Well, then, that wasn’t nearly as bad as we thought it might be...
Rarely did events play out as imagined, in any case. The order of future events was transient. In the same way that the past was reconfigured by selective memory, future events, too, were moving targets. One could only act on instinct, grab hold of an intuited perfect moment, and spring into action. One heartbeat late and the universe would have recomposed itself, no imposition of will sufficient to forestall the currents. One could only observe and react. Surprise was the element absent from any periodic table. A keystone element; a missing ingredient. The means by which the Force amused itself. A reminder to all sentient beings that some secrets could never be unlocked.
Confident that the will of the dark side had been done, he returned to the suite’s window wall. Two beings in a galaxy of countless trillions, but what had transpired in the suite would affect the lives of all of them. Already the galaxy had been shaped by the birth of one, and henceforth would be reshaped by the death of the other. But had the change been felt and recognized elsewhere? Were his sworn enemies aware that the Force had shifted irrevocably? Would it be enough to rouse them from self-righteousness? He hoped not. For now the work of vengeance could begin in earnest.
His eyes sought and found an ascending constellation of stars, one of power and consequence new to the sky, though soon to be overwhelmed by dawn’s first light. Low in the sky over the flatlands, visible only to those who knew where and how to look, it ushered in a bold future. To some the stars and planets might seem to be moving as ever, destined to align in configurations calculated long before their fiery births. But in fact the heavens had been perturbed, tugged by dark matter into novel alignments. In his mouth, Sidious tasted the tang of blood; in his chest, he felt the monster rising, emerging from shadowy depths and contorting his aspect into something fearsome just short of revealing itself to the world.
The dark side had made him its property, and now he made the dark side his.
Breathless, not from exertion but from the sudden inspiration of power, he let go of the sill and allowed the monster to writhe through his body like an unbroken beast of range or prairie.
Had the Force ever been so strong in anyone?
Sidious had never learned how Plagueis’s own Master had met his end. Had he died at Plagueis’s hand? Had Plagueis, too, experienced a similar exultation on becoming a sole Sith Lord?
Originally posted by quanchi112
We don't see Vader react in time to quantify those feats. We also have already seen Khan take down ships in real time and can quantify the feats. Somehow when Vader does it in a vague comic where two people can't even come to an agreement on what occurred you think this is foolproof. Vader has always been portrayed as quick with a light saber with slower movements. We can see this in real time in the films and the rebels episodes. We have seen how slow tk is and the fact he has to concentrate to even use it leaving him vulnerable.What Vader does in a comic is a moot point since we can quantify how long it took him to pick up Sidious and toss him down the shaft. It was slow as hell. Sidious has never deflected anything in real time with the sheer power and with the radius the phaser cannon covers.
You don't need to have the force to kill a force user. Order 66, Jango Fett, Cad Bane, etc. The force is just a tool like a gun or a jetpack when used in combat. It depends on skill level, feats, portrayals, and abilities.
Khan is portrayed on a much higher level than a guy who was utterly humiliated by Mace Windu in fair armed combat and begged for his life like a true weakling.
Well look at that so can Vader. We see him TKing those fighters in no time at all. It's just a motion of his hand. Not that hard to comprehend. The comics are canon, you said you debate canon so deal with it. Hes this is proof. Vader can do all of that with barely even a thought. He's just that powerful. So again moving where you can see after images is slow? You need to really look at your defintion of slow. Reaction time in the films isn't good enough. Especially when you look at that when Vader was made was the 70s and 80s when tech wasn't as good. So that's out. Rebels, he was going agaisnt opponents who are far weaker, toying around so why u leash full power? TK is slow? When? I've seen TK used in choke form and push form and it seems almost close to instant. Your an idiot. Concentration. Vader can use TK without breaking his lightsaber sequences. https://youtu.be/C-DeI3ohVbY 3:36-4:04 see he can stay perfectly defended while using the force. Also if he uses a push he would hit Khan so how is he leaving himself open?
Choreography doesn't really help prove a point since this film was made in the 80s I believe. You didn't have any problem using Darth Maul son of Dathomir as points for maul even though it's a comic. 😂 Called dodging, or his own power with lighting can challenge it most likely Bing as powerful as he is.
True you don't, but these force users yes. Sidious isn't getting taken down by anyone of these and I've already explained Cad bane. He got lucky. Jango fett, guess what killed by a force user. 😂 Sidious beats Khan due to greater skill, power, and all of the above. Khan once he loses his gun is done. Sidious and Vader still have the force evn without their lightsabers.
I'm gonna give you the chance to decide how Khan dies. TK, lightning, lightsaber, or Sidious converts Khan. Your choice.
Originally posted by EmperorSidious2Is this canon ?
--Taken from Darth PlagueisSidious' powers increase upon Plagueis' death.
A tremor took hold of the planet.
Sprung from death, it unleashed itself in a powerful wave, at once burrowing deep into the world’s core and radiating through its saccharine atmosphere to shake the stars themselves. At the quake’s epicenter stood Sidious, one elegant hand vised on the burnished sill of an expansive translucency, a vessel filled suddenly to bursting, the Force so strong within him that he feared he might disappear into it, never to return. But the moment didn’t constitute an ending so much as a true beginning, long overdue; it was less a transformation than an intensification—a gravitic shift.
A welter of voices, near and far, present and from eons past, drowned his thoughts. Raised in praise, the voices proclaimed his reign and cheered the inauguration of a new order. Yellow eyes lifted to the night sky, he saw the trembling stars flare, and in the depth of his being he felt the power of the dark side anoint him.
Slowly, almost reluctantly, he came back to himself, his gaze settling on his manicured hands. Returned to the present, he took note of his rapid breathing, while behind him the room labored to restore order. Air scrubbers hummed—costly wall tapestries undulating in the summoned breeze. Prized carpets sealed their fibers against the spread of spilled fluids. The droid shuffled in obvious confliction. Sidious pivoted to take in the disarray: antique furniture overturned; framed artwork askew. As if a whirlwind had swept through. And facedown on the floor lay a statue of Yanjon, one of four law-giving sages of Dwartii.
A piece Sidious had secretly coveted.
Also sprawled there, Plagueis: his slender limbs splayed and elongated head turned to one side. Dressed in finery, as for a night on the town.
And now dead.
Or was he?
Uncertainty rippled through Sidious, rage returning to his eyes. A tremor of his own making, or one of forewarning? Was it possible that the wily Muun had deceived him? Had Plagueis unlocked the key to immortality, and survived after all? Never mind that it would constitute a petty move for one so wise—for one who had professed to place the Grand Plan above all else. Had Plagueis become ensnared in a self-spun web of jealousy and possessiveness, victim of his own engineering, his own foibles?
If he hadn’t been concerned for his own safety, Sidious might have pitied him. Wary of approaching the corpse of his former Master, he called on the Force to roll the aged Muun over onto his back. From that angle Plagueis looked almost as he had when Sidious first met him, decades earlier: smooth, hairless cranium; humped nose, with its bridge flattened as if from a shock-ball blow and its sharp tip pressed almost to his upper lip; jutting lower jaw; sunken eyes still brimming with menace—a physical characteristic rarely encountered in a Muun. But then Plagueis had never been an ordinary Muun, nor an ordinary being of any sort.
Sidious took care, still reaching out with the Force. On closer inspection, he saw that Plagueis’s already cyanotic flesh was smoothing out, his features relaxing.
Faintly aware of the whir of air scrubbers and sounds of the outside world infiltrating the luxurious suite, he continued the vigil; then, in relief, he pulled himself up to his full height and let out his breath. This was no Sith trick. Not an instance of feigning death, but one of succumbing to its cold embrace. The being who had guided him to power was gone.
Wry amusement narrowed his eyes.
The Muun might have lived another hundred years unchanged. He might have lived forever had he succeeded fully in his quest. But in the end—though he could save others from death—he had failed to save himself.
A sense of supreme accomplishment puffed Sidious’s chest, and his thoughts unreeled.
Well, then, that wasn’t nearly as bad as we thought it might be...
Rarely did events play out as imagined, in any case. The order of future events was transient. In the same way that the past was reconfigured by selective memory, future events, too, were moving targets. One could only act on instinct, grab hold of an intuited perfect moment, and spring into action. One heartbeat late and the universe would have recomposed itself, no imposition of will sufficient to forestall the currents. One could only observe and react. Surprise was the element absent from any periodic table. A keystone element; a missing ingredient. The means by which the Force amused itself. A reminder to all sentient beings that some secrets could never be unlocked.
Confident that the will of the dark side had been done, he returned to the suite’s window wall. Two beings in a galaxy of countless trillions, but what had transpired in the suite would affect the lives of all of them. Already the galaxy had been shaped by the birth of one, and henceforth would be reshaped by the death of the other. But had the change been felt and recognized elsewhere? Were his sworn enemies aware that the Force had shifted irrevocably? Would it be enough to rouse them from self-righteousness? He hoped not. For now the work of vengeance could begin in earnest.
His eyes sought and found an ascending constellation of stars, one of power and consequence new to the sky, though soon to be overwhelmed by dawn’s first light. Low in the sky over the flatlands, visible only to those who knew where and how to look, it ushered in a bold future. To some the stars and planets might seem to be moving as ever, destined to align in configurations calculated long before their fiery births. But in fact the heavens had been perturbed, tugged by dark matter into novel alignments. In his mouth, Sidious tasted the tang of blood; in his chest, he felt the monster rising, emerging from shadowy depths and contorting his aspect into something fearsome just short of revealing itself to the world.
The dark side had made him its property, and now he made the dark side his.
Breathless, not from exertion but from the sudden inspiration of power, he let go of the sill and allowed the monster to writhe through his body like an unbroken beast of range or prairie.
Had the Force ever been so strong in anyone?
Sidious had never learned how Plagueis’s own Master had met his end. Had he died at Plagueis’s hand? Had Plagueis, too, experienced a similar exultation on becoming a sole Sith Lord?
Originally posted by EmperorSidious2Waving your hand takes time. We don't see his actions this we can't qualify it. We do see his actions in the rebels series and the live action films. Slow. The canon game also portrays him as slow and powerful just like I've always said. It's sad I have a much better grasp on the portrayals of the characters than the biased fans. Luke is also in the earlier films and much faster than Vader movement wise.
Well look at that so can Vader. We see him TKing those fighters in no time at all. It's just a motion of his hand. Not that hard to comprehend. The comics are canon, you said you debate canon so deal with it. Hes this is proof. Vader can do all of that with barely even a thought. He's just that powerful. So again moving where you can see after images is slow? You need to really look at your defintion of slow. Reaction time in the films isn't good enough. Especially when you look at that when Vader was made was the 70s and 80s when tech wasn't as good. So that's out. Rebels, he was going agaisnt opponents who are far weaker, toying around so why u leash full power? TK is slow? When? I've seen TK used in choke form and push form and it seems almost close to instant. Your an idiot. Concentration. Vader can use TK without breaking his lightsaber sequences. https://youtu.be/C-DeI3ohVbY 3:36-4:04 see he can stay perfectly defended while using the force. Also if he uses a push he would hit Khan so how is he leaving himself open?Choreography doesn't really help prove a point since this film was made in the 80s I believe. You didn't have any problem using Darth Maul son of Dathomir as points for maul even though it's a comic. 😂 Called dodging, or his own power with lighting can challenge it most likely Bing as powerful as he is.
True you don't, but these force users yes. Sidious isn't getting taken down by anyone of these and I've already explained Cad bane. He got lucky. Jango fett, guess what killed by a force user. 😂 Sidious beats Khan due to greater skill, power, and all of the above. Khan once he loses his gun is done. Sidious and Vader still have the force evn without their lightsabers.
I'm gonna give you the chance to decide how Khan dies. TK, lightning, lightsaber, or Sidious converts Khan. Your choice.
I use Darth Maul portrayals from the series not the timing of his feats. Saying someone is lucky is avoiding the fact it occurred and your opinion doesn't change what occurred. Jango Fett's equipment wasn't broken by a force user and he got killed by the same guy who disarmed and had Palpatine at his mercy.
Food for thought. Darth ant answered the bell. You quit the fight as did Darth Thor long ago.
Originally posted by quanchi112
Waving your hand takes time. We don't see his actions this we can't qualify it. We do see his actions in the rebels series and the live action films. Slow. The canon game also portrays him as slow and powerful just like I've always said. It's sad I have a much better grasp on the portrayals of the characters than the biased fans. Luke is also in the earlier films and much faster than Vader movement wise.I use Darth Maul portrayals from the series not the timing of his feats. Saying someone is lucky is avoiding the fact it occurred and your opinion doesn't change what occurred. Jango Fett's equipment wasn't broken by a force user and he got killed by the same guy who disarmed and had Palpatine at his mercy.
Food for thought. Darth ant answered the bell. You quit the fight as did Darth Thor long ago.
So does getting your gun in the right position or to move it and pulling the trigger. All it takes for both is mere seconds. Comics are a on, you said canon. We see he can destroy these huge machines with just a wave of his hand, and I beleive he's taking down ships with ease as well. Live action isn't a good representation sense they have certain limits and rebels, he wasn't going all out. You make him out to be this slow moving being when he is in fact a competent fast moving deulist. You don't have a better grasp, you don't understand how to interpret them. If he was much faster than he would have overwhelmed the apparent slow moving Vader if he is so fast.
No you use every aspect including the timing for maul Talzin all of them. You had no problm saying Maul held off Windu and securamwhen we don't know how long that one panel was, but no you had no problm making that his feat. No Jango fett was just beheaded by a force user. Lucas already said Sidious faked all of that. I find your stupidity very disturbing.
Again I give you the choice how would you say you want Khan to die? It's up to you. So Ant will beat you the same way Thor and I did. Good to know. 😂
Originally posted by EmperorSidious2Far less time than that but it doesn't surprise me you wouldn't care about facts. We see in love action film his tk also takes time and that he's never destroyed an organic being in the same manner is a ship so wishful thinking on your end. You claim he's never going all out so why does it matter ? None of his fights count as he never goes all out and they happened in the 80's so who bloody cares. 😂
So does getting your gun in the right position or to move it and pulling the trigger. All it takes for both is mere seconds. Comics are a on, you said canon. We see he can destroy these huge machines with just a wave of his hand, and I beleive he's taking down ships with ease as well. Live action isn't a good representation sense they have certain limits and rebels, he wasn't going all out. You make him out to be this slow moving being when he is in fact a competent fast moving deulist. You don't have a better grasp, you don't understand how to interpret them. If he was much faster than he would have overwhelmed the apparent slow moving Vader if he is so fast.No you use every aspect including the timing for maul Talzin all of them. You had no problm saying Maul held off Windu and securamwhen we don't know how long that one panel was, but no you had no problm making that his feat. No Jango fett was just beheaded by a force user. Lucas already said Sidious faked all of that. I find your stupidity very disturbing.
Again I give you the choice how would you say you want Khan to die? It's up to you. So Ant will beat you the same way Thor and I did. Good to know. 😂
I never claimed to quantify his speed in that but I did show off his portrayal was on par with the guy who had the supreme chancellor begging for his life. He feigned weakness after he was defeated to get the help he needed. Do not insult a debater it is poor form.
Sit on the sideline and stay broken like Darth Thor is.
Originally posted by quanchi112
Far less time than that but it doesn't surprise me you wouldn't care about facts. We see in love action film his tk also takes time and that he's never destroyed an organic being in the same manner is a ship so wishful thinking on your end. You claim he's never going all out so why does it matter ? None of his fights count as he never goes all out and they happened in the 80's so who bloody cares. 😂I never claimed to quantify his speed in that but I did show off his portrayal was on par with the guy who had the supreme chancellor begging for his life. He feigned weakness after he was defeated to get the help he needed. Do not insult a debater it is poor form.
Sit on the sideline and stay broken like Darth Thor is.
All of these are in the realm of less than a second and then you take into consideration Vader has precog and advanced speed as well. Pulling a trigger takes time. Force push pretty instant, force choke works fairly well also. No because he's never destroyed an organic being with a gun. He's choked organic beings, cut them down with his saber and crushed their throats with his bare hands. He can choke Khan out without even moving his hands. Exactly. They happened in the 80s so his portrayal isn't what Lucas woudl ahve planned. He wouldn't make the second biggest villain in his franchise slow, at least not the level you say.
You claimed he could contend with Mace since one panel for an unspecified time you said he could do that when it was just one movement so yes you have. So you agree that he was faking. The reason he was is honestly irrelevant as it has no bearing on the fact that he was in fact faking so him begging is all an act and doesn't count agaisnt him. I'm suprised you would say that since you insult debators left and right. 😂
How would I be broken since I've beaten you in every single thread we have been in. Including Sidious vs Khan. Khan has no answer to Sidious force powers.
Originally posted by EmperorSidious2You are attempting to quantify Vader's tk feats when you can't. We have seen his tk in real time and it's not that fast and requires his focus. Khan's feats of firing shots are faster and more powerful than the tk feats. Vader has hit people with tk and it doesn't just insta kill them but Khan's guns do.
All of these are in the realm of less than a second and then you take into consideration Vader has precog and advanced speed as well. Pulling a trigger takes time. Force push pretty instant, force choke works fairly well also. No because he's never destroyed an organic being with a gun. He's choked organic beings, cut them down with his saber and crushed their throats with his bare hands. He can choke Khan out without even moving his hands. Exactly. They happened in the 80s so his portrayal isn't what Lucas woudl ahve planned. He wouldn't make the second biggest villain in his franchise slow, at least not the level you say.You claimed he could contend with Mace since one panel for an unspecified time you said he could do that when it was just one movement so yes you have. So you agree that he was faking. The reason he was is honestly irrelevant as it has no bearing on the fact that he was in fact faking so him begging is all an act and doesn't count agaisnt him. I'm suprised you would say that since you insult debators left and right. 😂
How would I be broken since I've beaten you in every single thread we have been in. Including Sidious vs Khan. Khan has no answer to Sidious force powers.
You just made a horrendous claim which has nothing to do with the speed of a character. Jason Voorhees, Michael Myers, are slow powerful iconic horror villains. Vader is slower and powerful based off the evidence you want to ignore.
Untrue. You've lost and conceded in multiple threads to me and I'm surprised you're even posting now. We both know when people tell you to stop you'll listen like the beta you are.
Originally posted by quanchi112
I refer to the default rules. That's my right. Don't be upset about it.
Well it's everyone else's right to refer to EU material. So it's ok if you infringe on us, but when it's the other way around you wanna throw a hissy fit? This is EU material, Plagueis' feats,are EU so there is no way you can actually say for certain a guess on who wins due to not knowing his feats.
Originally posted by EmperorSidious2I said my piece.
Well it's everyone else's right to refer to EU material. So it's ok if you infringe on us, but when it's the other way around you wanna throw a hissy fit? This is EU material, Plagueis' feats,are EU so there is no way you can actually say for certain a guess on who wins due to not knowing his feats.
Originally posted by quanchi112
You are attempting to quantify Vader's tk feats when you can't. We have seen his tk in real time and it's not that fast and requires his focus. Khan's feats of firing shots are faster and more powerful than the tk feats. Vader has hit people with tk and it doesn't just insta kill them but Khan's guns do.You just made a horrendous claim which has nothing to do with the speed of a character. Jason Voorhees, Michael Myers, are slow powerful iconic horror villains. Vader is slower and powerful based off the evidence you want to ignore.
Untrue. You've lost and conceded in multiple threads to me and I'm surprised you're even posting now. We both know when people tell you to stop you'll listen like the beta you are.
Yea I can. He waved his hand and the AT-AT came down. Not much to it. We have seen his TK in one portrayal. This is more updated material showing more power. Ok first of all I'm not aware of anything Khan's gun has done that Vader hasn't down or can't replicate. Force choke or his saber seems to work. He hit Kilgons. Vader is more durable than they are.
Vader has moved in blurs, been described as moving faster than thought and more. Whether it's hyperbole or not it shows his speed that he would be placed on a level like that, showing his movements aren't slow.
Yea it's true. I've beaten you in all of the threads we have been in. I've never once conceded to you, it's actually been the other way,around. You are in able of defeating me or anyone for that matter. Why waste my time endlessly like that. For a 100+ pages on a topic I have thoroughly beaten you on. What sense does it make to continue?