Darth Vader vs Darth Plagueis

Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
Yea I can. He waved his hand and the AT-AT came down. Not much to it. We have seen his TK in one portrayal. This is more updated material showing more power. Ok first of all I'm not aware of anything Khan's gun has done that Vader hasn't down or can't replicate. Force choke or his saber seems to work. He hit Kilgons. Vader is more durable than they are.

Vader has moved in blurs, been described as moving faster than thought and more. Whether it's hyperbole or not it shows his speed that he would be placed on a level like that, showing his movements aren't slow.

Yea it's true. I've beaten you in all of the threads we have been in. I've never once conceded to you, it's actually been the other way,around. You are in able of defeating me or anyone for that matter. Why waste my time endlessly like that. For a 100+ pages on a topic I have thoroughly beaten you on. What sense does it make to continue?

Hyperbolic. We see him and quantify his speed. Slow. Canon game states he is slow.

Nah, you hid in fear of me when I never went anywhere.

Originally posted by quanchi112
You can't quantify it in a comic unless the time is noted. You don't understand simple sentences. We don't see his tk in realtime other than the rebels and films. Period.

Hyperbolic. We see him and quantify his speed. Slow. Canon game states he is slow.

Nah, you hid in fear of me when I never went anywhere.

Again he waves his hand and it falls. Doesn't take a long time to wave your hand and something to fall like that. It just shows how powerful Vader is. Again more updated material that doesn't take that much to understand. I see where your coming from but I disagree.

Again like I said even if it is hyperbole, it shows how fast he would be by being described like that.

Actually you left the Voldemort and Dumbledore thread. I thoroughly beat you in those, all of them.

Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
Again he waves his hand and it falls. Doesn't take a long time to wave your hand and something to fall like that. It just shows how powerful Vader is. Again more updated material that doesn't take that much to understand. I see where your coming from but I disagree.

Again like I said even if it is hyperbole, it shows how fast he would be by being described like that.

Actually you left the Voldemort and Dumbledore thread. I thoroughly beat you in those, all of them.

Still hyperbolic.

I'm not in a Voldemort mood but mark my words when I am ill go on a tear and beat you into submission again.

Originally posted by quanchi112
It is guesswork and we don't see the destruction how long that takes to occur. I never said he wasn't powerful. I said he was slow.

Still hyperbolic.

I'm not in a Voldemort mood but mark my words when I am ill go on a tear and beat you into submission again.

Not that hard to find an area of time. We see a vader lift his hands and then it falls, it's defintlly within seconds. It's not like it takes a lot of time or effort for him to do so.

Still shows how fast he is. Game set Match.

Excuses. You just lost. I'm not sure where that again comes from, since I've beaten you every time.

Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
Not that hard to find an area of time. We see a vader lift his hands and then it falls, it's defintlly within seconds. It's not like it takes a lot of time or effort for him to do so.

Still shows how fast he is. Game set Match.

Excuses. You just lost. I'm not sure where that again comes from, since I've beaten you every time.

No, that doesn't. I also said his movement speed is slow because it is.

Rescind your claims like the Yoda thread. 😂

Originally posted by quanchi112
It is still guesswork which is my point.

No, that doesn't. I also said his movement speed is slow because it is.

Rescind your claims like the Yoda thread. 😂

Your point is irrelevant, while Vader destroying that At-At was swift and powerful.

Yea it does. If someone says it's raining cats and dogs that means it generally raining really hard. So if someone says he moves faster than thought it means he was moving extremely fast.

Ito still entirely possible Vader could take Yoda and win a few rounds, just not the majority most likely.

Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
Your point is irrelevant, while Vader destroying that At-At was swift and powerful.

Yea it does. If someone says it's raining cats and dogs that means it generally raining really hard. So if someone says he moves faster than thought it means he was moving extremely fast.

Ito still entirely possible Vader could take Yoda and win a few rounds, just not the majority most likely.

Me: Vader is slow and powerful.
You: Vader moves in blur like fashion and waves his hands so he's pretty fast.
Me: prove it.
You: how long does it take to wave a hand.

We see how fast he does move. It isn't fast. We quantify time otherwise it's just guesswork.

You already rescinded your claims and admitted I was right. 😂

Originally posted by quanchi112
This is what makes you a poor debater. You just guess and then use words or claims that don't contradict what I've said at all.

Me: Vader is slow and powerful.
You: Vader moves in blur like fashion and waves his hands so he's pretty fast.
Me: prove it.
You: how long does it take to wave a hand.

We see how fast he does move. It isn't fast. We quantify time otherwise it's just guesswork.

You already rescinded your claims and admitted I was right. 😂

In other words nothing to disprove my claim or method. Good to know.

How do you go from saying its hyperbole to saying prove it. I just did with the hyperbole. I admitted it was hyperbole, but saying he moved faster than thought shows that he does move with more speed than you yourself give him credit.

No you said Yoda crushes Vader which isn't right.

Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
In other words nothing to disprove my claim or method. Good to know.

How do you go from saying its hyperbole to saying prove it. I just did with the hyperbole. I admitted it was hyperbole, but saying he moved faster than thought shows that he does move with more speed than you yourself give him credit.

No you said Yoda crushes Vader which isn't right.

Hyperbole isn't proof that's called flowery language. Proving it is quantifying it.

You changed your stance not me. Yoda is too fast for slow Vader and with greater force powers.

Originally posted by quanchi112
I do not have to disprove your claim you have to prove it. The fact you still aren't aware of this is why you aren't a competent debater.

Hyperbole isn't proof that's called flowery language. Proving it is quantifying it.

You changed your stance not me. Yoda is too fast for slow Vader and with greater force powers.

Again you yourself have backed down. All he does is raise his hand and it falls down. It takes seconds. Seocnds quan. This coming form the debater known as a troll althroughout this forum and has never won a debate in your time here.

No you use what you have. Someone says it's raining cats and dogs of course it's not really its describing how hard it's raining. So someone in the Star Wars universe says that Vader moves fast enough that he moves faster than thought whether in the SW universe that's true or hyperbole it still describes he's moving at incredibly fast speed. That's what hyperbole does, it describes things with impossible situations since it's so good it's gone beyond the realm of normal.

Uhhh can't say that. Yoda is faster than Dooku but Dooku was still able to hold his own. Vader>Dooku in both force and Saber prowess and with most likely more experience. So yea Vader could take it.

Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
Again you yourself have backed down. All he does is raise his hand and it falls down. It takes seconds. Seocnds quan. This coming form the debater known as a troll althroughout this forum and has never won a debate in your time here.

No you use what you have. Someone says it's raining cats and dogs of course it's not really its describing how hard it's raining. So someone in the Star Wars universe says that Vader moves fast enough that he moves faster than thought whether in the SW universe that's true or hyperbole it still describes he's moving at incredibly fast speed. That's what hyperbole does, it describes things with impossible situations since it's so good it's gone beyond the realm of normal.

Uhhh can't say that. Yoda is faster than Dooku but Dooku was still able to hold his own. Vader>Dooku in both force and Saber prowess and with most likely more experience. So yea Vader could take it.

So it's hyperbolic and not quantifiable. What's worse is you say ignore his ot showings and rebels. It's so biased I can't you seriously.

Yoda would beat him all day and fleeing to escape isn't impressive. Dooku is a bum. Vos made him look awful.

Originally posted by quanchi112
I never said he didn't do that I said you have not quantified it. Khan shoots in less than a second which is my point. Thanks for conceding second[B]s.

So it's hyperbolic and not quantifiable. What's worse is you say ignore his ot showings and rebels. It's so biased I can't you seriously.

Yoda would beat him all day and fleeing to escape isn't impressive. Dooku is a bum. Vos made him look awful. [/B]

Quantified to specifics no. Generalized yes. How long would you say it takes a human to raise their hand. Defintily less than a second. so I'm not seeing what the problem is. So realisticly speaking yes Vader could perform that feat in seconds around 1-3 seconds maybe 2-5. Now khan can shoot in about a second. What is he going to do once Vader takes that thing away? We've seen him take a gun away from one of the best pilots in the galaxy in Han Solo. Then you look he can choke people without hand gestures as he does in ESB a couple times, and since Khan has no force wall I don't see why he couldn't be choked.

Do you know what hyperbole is used for? It's used to make a point. It says Vader can move faster than thought. Ok, that means he can move very fast, not as fast as one can think but very fast none the less. So that pretty much destroys any notion of him being slow.

Nah. Yoda may take the majority, but not all day. Vader has enough advantages in his side to where he could take down Yoda.

Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
Quantified to specifics no. Generalized yes. How long would you say it takes a human to raise their hand. Defintily less than a second. so I'm not seeing what the problem is. So realisticly speaking yes Vader could perform that feat in seconds around 1-3 seconds maybe 2-5. Now khan can shoot in about a second. What is he going to do once Vader takes that thing away? We've seen him take a gun away from one of the best pilots in the galaxy in Han Solo. Then you look he can choke people without hand gestures as he does in ESB a couple times, and since Khan has no force wall I don't see why he couldn't be choked.

Do you know what hyperbole is used for? It's used to make a point. It says Vader can move faster than thought. Ok, that means he can move very fast, not as fast as one can think but very fast none the less. So that pretty much destroys any notion of him being slow.

Nah. Yoda may take the majority, but not all day. Vader has enough advantages in his side to where he could take down Yoda.

Already been explained to you. He isn't slow with his saber he is slow movement wise so thus my point stands and yours doesn't.

Yoda wins all day but hey you already conceded.

Originally posted by quanchi112
You already said it takes him seconds to perform his tk feat so he's dead and doesn't have to worry about it. Han Solo also fired off blasts before Vader could react.

Already been explained to you. He isn't slow with his saber he is slow movement wise so thus my point stands and yours doesn't.

Yoda wins all day but hey you already conceded.

To bring down a giant At-At maybe. Is Khan anywhere near the scale of an At-At. No he is an augmented human whom IIRC was beaten by Spock, and the regeneration ability he has not used in the way I imagined. Irrelevant when we see he has moved in blurs explicitly shown, and also he took it away which is the point.

Moving faster than thought. Moving faster goes with his sprint speed. Again describing that he is indeed fast with his sprint speed.

Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
To bring down a giant At-At maybe. Is Khan anywhere near the scale of an At-At. No he is an augmented human whom IIRC was beaten by Spock, and the regeneration ability he has not used in the way I imagined. Irrelevant when we see he has moved in blurs explicitly shown, and also he took it away which is the point.

Moving faster than thought. Moving faster goes with his sprint speed. Again describing that he is indeed fast with his sprint speed.

What was moving faster than thought ? We have seen Vader move very slowly in real time but you want to ignore it.

Originally posted by quanchi112
I am saying Han Solo isn't the scale of an at at either but we see Han fire off successive shots against Vader. Khan was beating Spock one on one and he wasn't armed. 😂

What was moving faster than thought ? We have seen Vader move very slowly in real time but you want to ignore it.

I've actually seen that fight and the end of the fight Spock had Khan down while I have seen the context of course.

Vader also there is something you need to see. Quotes from some canon other maybe EU.

He kills Roan Lands before Ferus Olin can react, indicating that he could have speedblitzed the latter:

"He is a former associate, yes, but --"

It happened before he could get out another word. Faster than an eyeblink. Faster than he'd seen anyone move, anyone except Yoda.

The lightsaber hadn't been there, and then it was, and the lightsaber was a blur. Vader moved without seeming to move, and the lightsaber sliced into Roan, straight into his chest. Straight into his heart.
-- Last Of The Jedi: Secret Weapon

He'd stood by and watched, too slow to react, as Darth Vader had casually flipped his lightsaber and ran it through his best friend, his partner, Roan Lands.
-- Last Of The Jedi: Against The Empire

Now how fast this Ferus Olin is to show you his speed.

Appearing to be in two or three places at once:

He moved so fast that he almost seemed to be in two or three places at once.

-- Star Wars: Rebel Force: Hostage

Vader dodges an enraged Ferus Olin's attacks:

Ferus heard Amie shout, but he couldn't focus on anything but his own need to plunge his lightsaber deep into Vader. He whirled and attacked again, but Vader again was gone, moving with a speed and lightness that was surprising considering his body armor.
-- Last Of The Jedi: Secret Weapon

Vader moves with such speed that he doesn't seem to be there when an enraged Ferus Olin attacks him:

This was it, then. The final confrontation.

He was ready. His rage was ice and fire.

He charged.

His first blow was easily parried. He came at Vader again. Again. Circling, jumping, vaulting past him, turning. Each time his lightsaber came toward him, it was eilher deflected in a shock that ran up his arm, Vader simply wasn't there.

---

Ferus leaped over a gaping hole in the floor and attacked Vader again, but his lightsaber cut through empty air.
-- Last Of The Jedi: Reckoning

It should also be noted that Ferus was seemingly empowered by a Sith holocron during the fight:

He had everything he needed to defeat him, didn't he? He had the Sith Holocron for strength, Vader's true identity in his hand, his own rage. With those tools, he could do it. The Emperor had told him he could. Ferus thought quickly. He wanted to pick the battleground. Someplace that would unsettle the former Jedi.
-- The Last of The Jedi: Reckoning

(Canon) Vader moves with preternatural speed and swings his lightsaber as a blur:

Vader was forty meters from her. He stood up straight, towering over the crew near him. He was looking right at her, his lightsaber held at his side, and she could feel the weight of his regard pressing against her like a punch. He exploded into motion, moving toward her at preternatural speed, his strides devouring the deck space between them. Crew scrambled out of the way at his approach, his dark form knifing through them.

She raised her blasters and took aim, shooting as fast as she could pull the triggers, scribing the air between them with lines of red energy. Vader didn't slow his sprint and his lightsaber was a blur as he came on, deflecting her shots in all directions. A few came back at her. One hit the pallet and sent tools skittering along the deck. Another scorched the bulkhead beside her, but still she fired.

The crew in the corridor panicked, scrambling in all directions. An officer got in Vader's way, slowing his approach for a moment, and Vader tossed him aside with his free hand as if the man weighed no more than a child.

Isval! Eshgo said from behind her.

Vader was twenty meters and closing.

She was shouting, firing, but her shots could not get past the line of his lightsaber. She didn't understand how it was possible, until her own words came back to her: Vader was not a man.
-- Lords Of The Sith

Vader dodges Roan Shryne's lightsaber blow by leaping, and then lands behind him, in spite of Shryne possessing tremendous speed:

For an instant it seemed that the blade was going to pass clear through Vader's knees, but Vader leapt high, half twisting in midair and coming down behind Shryne.
-- Dark Lord: The Rise Of Darth Vader

As tenuous as his contact with the Force sometimes was, Shryne was still a master with a sword, and almost thirty years of training had honed his instincts and turned his body into an instrument of tremendous speed and power.
-- Dark Lord: The Rise Of Darth

He casually dodges/parries Aurra Sing's attacks, and seemingly moves faster than her, to the point that Sing sees him move preternaturally fast:

Her fist never made contact. Raising his right hand and bringing it around in a swift arc, Vader blocked the blow and sent the body behind it flying across the room. As she flew, a startled but still wholly self-aware Sing tucked and rolled. She hit the opposite wall hard, bounced off, landed on her feet, and immediately came at him again.

“The reflexes of an animal,” Vader murmured. His lightsaber hung at his waist. He ignored it, his fingers going nowhere near the weapon. “That’s what the Empire needs: a few more well-trained, domesticated animals.”

“Domesticated? I’ll show you who’s domesticated!” She leapt high, kicking out, and in midthrust somehow bent sideways to kick harder with her other leg.

In a movement preternaturally fast, but which somehow looked almost languid, Vader ducked, reached up, and with one gloved hand lightly tapped her in the middle of her back. A serious thrust catching her in that position could have broken her spine. The Dark Lord’s touch was more of a caress. He was letting her know what he could have done.

Landing in a crouch, a feral expression on her face, she raced at him again, low this time. Her speed was startling: a droid would have been hard-pressed to match her acceleration. She dropped low to the floor and swung her right leg around in a powerful circle sweep. Her intent was to take his legs out from under him.
-- Coruscant Nights II: Streets O

(Canon) Vader moves with even greater speed than Sidious.

With preternatural speed the Emperor drew, ignited, and slashed at the girl with his lightsaber, but Vader had sensed his Master's intent and moved with greater speed, igniting his own blade and intercepting his Master's blow before it could land.
-- Lords Of The Sith

However Vader does suggest that the emperor was holding back as Sidious does have more power in the force so thus would be able to move faster.

I could give more examples of Vader's sprint speed but I think you get the point.

Credit goes to Zapan87 for his respect thread on this matter.

Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
I've actually seen that fight and the end of the fight Spock had Khan down while I have seen the context of course.

Vader also there is something you need to see. Quotes from some canon other maybe EU.

He kills Roan Lands before Ferus Olin can react, indicating that he could have speedblitzed the latter:

"He is a former associate, yes, but --"

It happened before he could get out another word. Faster than an eyeblink. Faster than he'd seen anyone move, anyone except Yoda.

The lightsaber hadn't been there, and then it was, and the lightsaber was a blur. Vader moved without seeming to move, and the lightsaber sliced into Roan, straight into his chest. Straight into his heart.
-- Last Of The Jedi: Secret Weapon

He'd stood by and watched, too slow to react, as Darth Vader had casually flipped his lightsaber and ran it through his best friend, his partner, Roan Lands.
-- Last Of The Jedi: Against The Empire

Now how fast this Ferus Olin is to show you his speed.

Appearing to be in two or three places at once:

He moved so fast that he almost seemed to be in two or three places at once.

-- Star Wars: Rebel Force: Hostage

Vader dodges an enraged Ferus Olin's attacks:

Ferus heard Amie shout, but he couldn't focus on anything but his own need to plunge his lightsaber deep into Vader. He whirled and attacked again, but Vader again was gone, moving with a speed and lightness that was surprising considering his body armor.
-- Last Of The Jedi: Secret Weapon

Vader moves with such speed that he doesn't seem to be there when an enraged Ferus Olin attacks him:

This was it, then. The final confrontation.

He was ready. His rage was ice and fire.

He charged.

His first blow was easily parried. He came at Vader again. Again. Circling, jumping, vaulting past him, turning. Each time his lightsaber came toward him, it was eilher deflected in a shock that ran up his arm, Vader simply wasn't there.

---

Ferus leaped over a gaping hole in the floor and attacked Vader again, but his lightsaber cut through empty air.
-- Last Of The Jedi: Reckoning

It should also be noted that Ferus was seemingly empowered by a Sith holocron during the fight:

He had everything he needed to defeat him, didn't he? He had the Sith Holocron for strength, Vader's true identity in his hand, his own rage. With those tools, he could do it. The Emperor had told him he could. Ferus thought quickly. He wanted to pick the battleground. Someplace that would unsettle the former Jedi.
-- The Last of The Jedi: Reckoning

(Canon) Vader moves with preternatural speed and swings his lightsaber as a blur:

Vader was forty meters from her. He stood up straight, towering over the crew near him. He was looking right at her, his lightsaber held at his side, and she could feel the weight of his regard pressing against her like a punch. He exploded into motion, moving toward her at preternatural speed, his strides devouring the deck space between them. Crew scrambled out of the way at his approach, his dark form knifing through them.

She raised her blasters and took aim, shooting as fast as she could pull the triggers, scribing the air between them with lines of red energy. Vader didn't slow his sprint and his lightsaber was a blur as he came on, deflecting her shots in all directions. A few came back at her. One hit the pallet and sent tools skittering along the deck. Another scorched the bulkhead beside her, but still she fired.

The crew in the corridor panicked, scrambling in all directions. An officer got in Vader's way, slowing his approach for a moment, and Vader tossed him aside with his free hand as if the man weighed no more than a child.

Isval! Eshgo said from behind her.

Vader was twenty meters and closing.

She was shouting, firing, but her shots could not get past the line of his lightsaber. She didn't understand how it was possible, until her own words came back to her: Vader was not a man.
-- Lords Of The Sith

Vader dodges Roan Shryne's lightsaber blow by leaping, and then lands behind him, in spite of Shryne possessing tremendous speed:

For an instant it seemed that the blade was going to pass clear through Vader's knees, but Vader leapt high, half twisting in midair and coming down behind Shryne.
-- Dark Lord: The Rise Of Darth Vader

As tenuous as his contact with the Force sometimes was, Shryne was still a master with a sword, and almost thirty years of training had honed his instincts and turned his body into an instrument of tremendous speed and power.
-- Dark Lord: The Rise Of Darth

He casually dodges/parries Aurra Sing's attacks, and seemingly moves faster than her, to the point that Sing sees him move preternaturally fast:

Her fist never made contact. Raising his right hand and bringing it around in a swift arc, Vader blocked the blow and sent the body behind it flying across the room. As she flew, a startled but still wholly self-aware Sing tucked and rolled. She hit the opposite wall hard, bounced off, landed on her feet, and immediately came at him again.

“The reflexes of an animal,” Vader murmured. His lightsaber hung at his waist. He ignored it, his fingers going nowhere near the weapon. “That’s what the Empire needs: a few more well-trained, domesticated animals.”

“Domesticated? I’ll show you who’s domesticated!” She leapt high, kicking out, and in midthrust somehow bent sideways to kick harder with her other leg.

In a movement preternaturally fast, but which somehow looked almost languid, Vader ducked, reached up, and with one gloved hand lightly tapped her in the middle of her back. A serious thrust catching her in that position could have broken her spine. The Dark Lord’s touch was more of a caress. He was letting her know what he could have done.

Landing in a crouch, a feral expression on her face, she raced at him again, low this time. Her speed was startling: a droid would have been hard-pressed to match her acceleration. She dropped low to the floor and swung her right leg around in a powerful circle sweep. Her intent was to take his legs out from under him.
-- Coruscant Nights II: Streets O

(Canon) Vader moves with even greater speed than Sidious.

With preternatural speed the Emperor drew, ignited, and slashed at the girl with his lightsaber, but Vader had sensed his Master's intent and moved with greater speed, igniting his own blade and intercepting his Master's blow before it could land.
-- Lords Of The Sith

However Vader does suggest that the emperor was holding back as Sidious does have more power in the force so thus would be able to move faster.

I could give more examples of Vader's sprint speed but I think you get the point.

Eh....regarding the Han vs Vader thing...Han drew faster than an eye wink, something which is like 300-400 milliseconds. Vader still however was able to react to the shots and block them.

Faster than the wink of an eye, Han draws his blaster and pops off a
couple of shots directly at Vader. The Dark Lord quickly raises his
hand, deflecting the bolts into one of the side walls, where they
explode harmlessly. Just as quickly, Han's weapon zips into Vader's
hand. The evil presence calmly places the gun on the table in front of
him.

- Taken from ESB script

Originally posted by Zenwolf
Eh....regarding the Han vs Vader thing...Han drew faster than an eye wink, something which is like 300-400 milliseconds. Vader still however was able to react to the shots and block them.