Originally posted by Sharivan
Sure you don't.No, that would be you. You specifically derailed a thread. Admitted to doing so on purpose. Then admitted to digging this thread up in order to get a response out of me.
You're the troll.
It was to illustrate a concept you clearly do not understand.
You yourself noted that processing information does not count for anything but being able to realize something quickly. I haven't said something like this could be used, and you haven't said something like this could be used.
No, you are the one who can't comprehend that freaking talking whilst on something that is moving faster than light doesn't mean you can react to things moving faster than light.
You have to interact something else you're flying towards at those ridiculous speeds. Since they're approaching you as fast as you're approaching them.
No, I am not doing that right now. Heck, you just did that and I corrected you with the Mantis Shrimp example. You have a poor grasp on it yourself.
These same databooks try to say Mjolnir is not faster than light when it is explicity is a lot for times. It's also against the rules to use them in lieu of actual evidence.
What I did was give you an articulate response that crushed every one of your points. That you didn't even read properly.
No, not just Daredevil. Daredevil didn't actually move within the timeframe of a nanosecond. That was processing information not reflexes.
I already debunked this.
No, the Silver Surfer is recognizing that something is happening and then moves within an even smaller timeframe than that.
Which shows that he can act within that allotted time.
That is what you're doing, and you're trying to feign maturity on top of that. At least I am honest about being prideful.
You're incapable of being honest about anything.
Who have a notoriously incomprehensible sense for scale. That makes no sense whatsoever. If what happens in the comic books blatantly contradicts the writers? What actually happens holds more weight in a versus context.
Not what the writers or creators say because they are not perfect. They are capable of making mistakes.
You're the one breaking the rules, and lacking any objectivity here.
Since you're obviously not capable of listening to reason, and care not for any of the clearly established guidelines.
Which requires us to ignore mountains of evidence, and everything we see in the entire trilogy. Heck, the story can't even function as we see it by his interpretation.
This appeal to authority would mean taking what Tom Brevoort said seriously as well. Which means transitive properties can't be used, and which means you can't scale from showings against other characters.
The very source you're using prevents you from using your so called evidence.
It details how I have evidence and that I actually read these things. Whereas you have none.
You're supposed to read it, and see that no convincing counter argument was made?
Yes, you have. Several times.
Denial isn't just a river in Egypt it seems.
Neither do I.
I reported you for breaking the board rules, derailing a topic, and baiting.
So, you're not going to address anything I said there and are just going to plug your ears now?
No, combat speed how fast you are in combat. It's your short distance speed. Any kind of travel speed is your long distance speed. How fast you can get from point A to point B.
As illustrated with the Mantis Shrimp. It ain't no sprinter but it got the fastest punch in the world.
That reference flew completely over your head it seems.
Already did.
Since my last post, really.
Did you even read it? They were operating within the Planck length between moments. That's a specific timeframe being noted.
Which doesn't make any sense at all, and there are clear cases of those characters jobbing. Due to the fact they need to make the other guy seem as if they are a threat.
Which you haven't? There is practically no one who has actually done something such as that. The only ones who have you can count on one hand.
There is nothing suggesting that you have.
Your attitude, the fact you keep grabbing scans off from other sites, and the fact you look up summaries for issues?
It shows you're lying here.
Apparently you do because you made an attack on my character based on that.
No, I understand you're the one who doesn't. The only comparison we have is the one in real life. There is no set in stone example within a fictional media.
You're trying to say your opinion on it is fact because you say so.
So, pray tell how do they work? You're using the combat speed and travel speed rhetorics.
They have no definite meaning. The only examples we can use are the ones in real life. Othwerise, you're relying on literal fan-fiction.
"They work this way because I say so."
That's what you're doing. It's incredibly dishonest. It relies on your opinion bring objective fact. Which is not true.
No, you're the one who is delusional here. You're the one plugging his ears with wax.
I showed you the Silver Surfer flying circles around someone at faster than light speeds, and attacking them in that time-frame.
I satisfied the burden of proof.
Don't feign ignorance.
This is something that is prevalent in comic books. You have to deal with this in regards to Superman. Yet, you still apply it anyway with this double standard you have.
Yes, it was.
I already noted why moving within the timeframe of a microsecond so stupidly fast.
In short distances Black Panther can move very fast, yes. As you yourself have proven with that scan you provided.
No, it was quite clear that in the last thread? Those play second fiddle when compared to actual feats. The feats are what matters, and it's by understanding them that we can reach a conclusion on how powerful a character is.
There is an actual explanation for why Superman can fly. So, that's a very poor example to use. Batman has no excuse. He just does things with no individual feats to suggest he is capable of them.
Such as hiding from Superman.
Not when it makes positively no sense whatsoever.
You have no self awareness whatsoever do you?
Your fixation regarding this borders on a mental illness.
That's your game isn't it? Just repeating the same points over, and over no matter how many times they are debunked?
Since you can't come up with proper counter arguments.
Just fixing some typos because the fifteen minute limit doesn't let me edit beyond that.
Originally posted by krisblaze
No, but its def in the respect thread.Either way its not much of a feat.
And you didn't go to get it when I politely asked for a scan?!!?! 😠
On a serious note, yeah, but it's something. And I'd count it as applicable for running anyway unless it was stated or shown that for some weird reason it didn't apply to his lower body.
Boy if you think writing long posts will give you the last word, are you in a surprise.
Originally posted by Sharivan
[B]Sure you don't.
Of course. Should I take permission from TV tropes first?
snip
This is useless nonsense. Keep your opinions to yourself, I don't have any use for them.
It was to illustrate a concept you clearly do not understand.
Another nonsense.
You yourself noted that processing ibformation does not count anything but bring able to realize something quickly. I haven't said something like this could be used, and you haven't said something like this could be used.
Some more nonsense. Boy, you are good at posting inane things.
No, you are the one who can't comprehend that freaking talking whilst on something that is moving faster than light doesn't mean you can react to things moving faster than light.
And why not? Because you and TV tropes say so? Sorry kid, I don't recognize your authority and particularly tv tropes.
You have to interact something else you're flying towards at those ridiculous speeds. Since they're approaching you as fast as you're approaching them.
How about identifying the tear in reality which even surfer couldn't have done?
No, I am.not doing that right now. Heck, you just did that and I corrected you with the Mantis Shrimp example. You have a poor grasp on it yourself.
Another nonsense.
This same datakbooks try to say Mjolnir is not faster than light when it is explicity is a lot for times. It's also against the rules to use them in lieu of actual evidence.
You could always post an example. Mjolnir travels FTL by opening warps in hyperspace.
But I liked how you are right and writers from marvel are wrong.
What I did was give you an articulate response that crushed every one of your points. That you didn't even read properly.
I don't read nonsense by whiny kid properly. Sue me.
No, not just Daredevil. Daredevil didn't actually move within the timeframe of a nanosecond. That was processing information not reflexes.
But Surfer processing information within a microsecond is presented as a speed feat. How amusing.
I already debunked this.
In your mind perhaps.
No, the Silver Surfer is recognizing that something is happening and then moves within an even smaller timeframe than that.
No, he is making a statement which is never proven. Darkseid makes a comment that when Ares will appear, they will only have a nanosecond to act.
By your logic, everyone there acted in a nanosecond only and even characters like Desaad have nanosecond reflexes.
Which shows that he can act within that allotted time.
Proof? Character statements aren't proof.
That is what you're doing, and you're trying to feign maturity on top of that. At least I am honest about being prideful.
You're incapable of being honest about anything.
Some more nonsense.
Who have a notoriously incomprehensible sense for scale. That makes no sense whatsoever. If what happens in the comic books blatantly contradicts the writers? What actually happens holds more weight in a versus context.
No, it doesn't. If you have any issues with what a writer writes in the comics, write and draw your own comics.
What you think happens in the comics means shit.
Not what the writers or creators say because they are not perfect. They are capable of making mistakes.
Its their works. They are free to do or say whatever they want. Who are you?
You're the one breaking the rules, and lacking any objectivity here.
Nonsense abound!
Since you're obviously not capable of listening to reason, and care not for any of the clearly established guidelines.
Some more nonsense.
Which requires us to ignore mountains of evidence, and everything we see in the entire trilogy. Heck, the story can't even function as we see it by his interpretation.
So? His interpretation of the character is what the character is. Complain to the creator how he makes his own work unable to function.
This appeal to authority would mean taking what Tom Brevoort said seriously as well. Which means transitive properties can't be used, and which means you can't scale from showings against other characters.
I'm talking about what actually happens in the comics and what the writer writes. Tom Brevoort isn't a writer last I checked.
The very source you're using prevents you from using your so called evidence.
You are deeply traumatized by Breevort and comics writer it seems. How dare they don't comply to your logic!
It details how I have evidence that I actually read these things. Whereas you have none.
Haha, seriously? GTFO.
You're supposed read it, and see that no convincing counter argument was made?
I don't read nonsense kid.
Yes, you have. Several times.Denial isn't just a five in Egypt it seems.
And the cliches machine is in full running.
Do continue to write nonsense kid.
Neither do I.
Of course you do. "How could spider-man do this to silver surfer.". Just in the previous post.
I reported you for breaking the board rules, derailing a topic, and baiting.
Good to know. Anything else? If you are so agitated, you can always stop posting.
So, you're not going to address anything I said there and are just going to plug your ears now?
Is there anything to address except your whining?
No, combat speed how fast you are in combat. It's your short distance speed. Any kind of travel speed is your long distance speed. How fast you can get from point A to point B.
No, combat speed is how fast you are compared to other characters. If you are able to blitz another character, you are faster than him. That's only way to compare combat speed.
As illustrated with the Mantis Shrimp. It ain't no sprinter but it got the fastest punch in the world.
Again with real life shit? Boy, you have a lot to learn.
That reference flew completely over your head it seems.
Nonsensical real life references in comic book discussions always do.
Already did.Since my last post, really.
Who is running to authority now, eh?
Should I report you for bashing me constantly without any provoking?
Did you even read it? They were operating within the Planck length between moments. That's a specific timeframe being noted.
Not due to superspeed. Ares and Nate Grey aren't going to speedblitz anyone soon. Or anytime.
sinp
Uselss references are your specialty, eh?
Which doesn't make any sense at all, and they're clear cases of those characters jobbing. Due to the fact the need to make the other guy seems as if they are a threat.
Not if it happens consistently. Spider-man is regularly shown to be faster than Thor and SIlver surfer in a fight.
No amount of whining would change that.
Which you haven't? There is practically no one who has actually done something such as that. The only ones who have you can count on one hand.
Yes, that includes me. And not you.
There is nothing suggesting that you have.
You are acting like I have to prove it to you. You are nothing but an internet punk to me kid.
Your attitude, the fact you keep grabbing scans off from other sites, and the fact you look up summaries for issues?
Because I'm lazy. Sue me.
It shows you're lying here.
Whatever floats your boat kid. You can believe whatever you want, I seriously don't give a shit about what you think.
Apparently you do because you made an attack on my character based on that.
"Your character."? Haha, oh you snivelling kid. Nobody cares. Especially me.
No, I understand you're the one who doesn't. The only comparison we have is the one in real life. There is no set in stone example within a fictional media.
Of course there are. There are rules in both marvel and DC comics. Real life science doesn't dicate it unless the writers intend it so.
You're trying to say your opinion on it so fact because you say so.
Of course. You get it now. Plus the scans that support it of course.
So, pray tell how do they work? You're using the combat speed and travel speed rhetorics.
In comics, combat speed of a character is solely determined by how fast they can fight. In case of speedsters, it is determined how fast they can run. Simple logic.
They have no definite meaning. The only examples we can use are the ones in real life. Othwerise, you're relying on literal fan-fiction.
Comics are fanfiction kid. The writers are fans first. Don't tell me you take all this as real.
Men don't fly in real life kid.
"They work this way because I say so."
Yes, essentially so.
That's what you're doing. It's incredibly dishonest. It relies on your opinion bring objective fact. Which is not true.
Of course it is. Got anything to disprove my logic?
No, you're the one who is delusional here. You're the one plugging his ears with wax.
So should I report you here?
I showed you the Silver Surfer flying circles around someone at faster than light speeds, and attacking them in that time-frame.
He travelled faster than light on his board and then stopped to attack him. Deathurge arrowed him on the very next page.
http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Marvel/SilverSurfer_Rune-07.jpg~original
And the time stream was frozen, there was no meaning of speed in that instance. Surfer being able to travel faster than light itself is contradictory in that instance.
Not to mention, Spider-man again proved faster than Surfer in combat against Deathurge when he actually dodged several of his attacks which surfer couldn't.
http://i.imgur.com/OnkEdpy.png
http://i.imgur.com/mavVBbh.png
I satisfied the burden of proof.
In your mind only. Surfer moving on his board is only an example of travel speed. Talking is free action after all.
Don't feign ignorance.
Never did.
This is something that is prevalent in comic books. You have to deal with this in regards to Superman. Yet, you still apply it anyway with this double standard you have.
I take everything in on average. Outliers happen but they are just that, outliers.
Yes, it was.
That's some shitty argument then.
[uote]I already noted why moving within the timeframe of a microsecond so stupidly fast.[/quote]
If only it was a microsecond.
In short distances Black Panther can move very fast, yes. As you yourself have proven with that scan you provided.
As fast as silver surfer?
No, it was quite clear that in the last thread? Those play second fiddle when compared to actual feats. The feats are what matters, and it's by understanding them that we can reach a conclusion on how powerful a character is.
A few outlier feats don't make a character speedster kid. You have to take everything in account.
There is an actual explanation for why Superman can fly.
Is there in real life?
So, that's a very poor example to use. Batman has no excuse. He just does things with no individual feats to suggest he is capable of them.
Except he is. Comic books aren't for such deep scrutiny kid.
Such as hiding from Superman.
And why not? Superman isn't infallible.
Not when it makes positively no sense whatsoever.
From your perspective. Which is worthless. If a writer choses to write Batman as being able to hide from Superman, that's his perspective. And his perspective counts. Yours doesn't.
You have no self awareness whatsoever do you?
I don't go on TV Tropes and Narutoforums for calculation of comic feats. So maybe no.
Your fixation regarding this borders on a mental illness.
Should I report you now?
That's your game isn't it? Just repeating the same points over, and over no matter how many times they are debunked?
If only you have anything which debunks anything.
Since you can't come up with proper counter argument. [/B]
Yeah, that's not what happens here kid. If you have nothing to counter, just say so. It will save both of our times.
Originally posted by Sharivan
Due to the fact it's an explicit ability Quicksilver has. He wasn't moving faster than Captain Marvel. Just somehow moving in a way that allowed him to become invisible. Namely by changing the acceleration of how he moved, and zig zagging
But as Monica is moving at lightspeed, she should have reflexes to see at the same speed by your logic. Travel speed is combat speed. Except sometimes it doesn't. Right?
You can still him moving in a straight line, and even normal human beings can see things moving at Mach 1.
But lightspeed Monica can't?
This makes no sense whatsoever otherwise. Since in that same position Captain Marvel should be able to see Quicksilver.
Can it be that travel speed is never combat speed?
If for example when you're on a jet airplane and you fly next to another one. You can see it.
But you don't have reflexes to see a slower moving object like a bird. Because it is not in your inertial frame. You can only see things which are moving at the same speed as the vehicle as yours do.
That's why Surfer moving on a board doesn't have the reflexes to match the speed of his board. Just as Thor can't match the speed of mjolnir.
Once again I don't put stock in established limitations especially with feats such as this.
Nobody asked for your opinion about what limitations you can put.
If Captain Marvel can fly at lightspeed it makes no sense for her to not be able to see someone moving at mach 1. How can she even see things, and fly around safely if that's the case?As things would appear to be approaching her at the same speed she is flying at them.
Comics are inconsistent like that. They are not made for scientific research which happens on Narutoforums.
You just have to roll with it. Its the same way how surfer can travel FTL and spider man can still blitz the **** out of him.
Travel speed is never combat speed.
Originally posted by Fiendish
You'd have to ignore quite a few showings to think Surfer doesn't possess some level of superspeed independent of his board.Whether he's likely to use it in a fight is another issue.
Anything above? Bullshit.
Originally posted by carver9
Two of the fastest Heralds reflex wise in a running battle. Surfer wins.
👆
You used a freaking databook in the very last page.
Also, hilarious that you complained about me writing long posts. When you wrote three different long posts in a row a day after we finished this discussion.
In an effort to get the freaking last word in. Oh my phucking god, and you have the nerve to call me a "kid."
You're the one behaving like one.
Which are full of nothing but keyboard vomit. That are completely nonsensical, and do not rebuke anything I brought up. What "evidence" you did bring up is heavily rife with biased interpretations of if. Which make no sense at all except in your own mind.
Sometimes you even respond in ways that clearly show you didn't read a part of my post.
Now you're feigning ignorance once more.
In this very moment you prove me right about you.
Originally posted by Sharivan
You used a freaking databook in the very last page.
Yes, I did. Are you gonna report me kid?
Also, hilarious that you complained about me writing long posts. When you wrote three different long posts in a row a day after we finished this discussion.
Yes, *** for Tat as they say.
In an effort to get the freaking last word in. Oh my phucking god, and you have the nerve to call me a "kid."
Of course. How else can you be taught manners here?
You're the one behaving like one.
Should I post SBP "You did it to me" meme here? From TV tropes?
Which are full of nothing but keyboard vomit. That are completely nonsensical, and do not rebuke anything I brought up. What "evidence" you did bring up is heavily rife with biased interpretations of if. Which make no sense at all except in your own mind.
So why don't you write another long post accusing me of mental illness and whatnot.
And report me for posting a long post. That always works.
Sometimes you even respond in ways that clearly show you didn't read a part of my post.
Of course, I can only read nonsense so much.
Now you're feigning ignorance once more.
Is that your catchphrase?
In this very moment you prove me right about you.
I couldn't care less what you think about me kid.
I never do.
Originally posted by Sharivan👆
You used a freaking databook in the very last page.Also, hilarious that you complained about me writing long posts. When you wrote three different long posts in a row a day after we finished this discussion.
In an effort to get the freaking last word in. Oh my phucking god, and you have the nerve to call me a "kid."
You're the one behaving like one.
Which are full of nothing but keyboard vomit. That are completely nonsensical, and do not rebuke anything I brought up. What "evidence" you did bring up is heavily rife with biased interpretations of if. Which make no sense at all except in your own mind.
Sometimes you even respond in ways that clearly show you didn't read a part of my post.
Now you're feigning ignorance once more.
In this very moment you prove me right about you.
Everyone on Herochat also pretty much says the same about him as well.
Seriously, he is even disagreeing with me when I am saying the same thing he is. You know, with regards to the Mantis Shrimp example?
He himself even differentiates between running speed and combat speed. When that was what I was doing.
The difference is I don't try to treat these things as concrete concepts in fiction. As they are not universally defined in it. They are incredibly inconsistent. You would have to dishonestly say all pieces of fiction work the exact same way.
Now he is saying it is but "not in regards to Silver Surfer and Thor because I say so."
Despite mountains of evidence proving him wrong.
Could he be even more blatant about his bias?
The only thing we can do is differ back, and use instances we see in life. As that is the only way we can do it objectively. As real life is separated from our subjective opinions.
Originally posted by Sharivan
Seriously, he is even disagreeing with me when I am saying the same thing he is. You know, with regards to the Mantis Shrimp example?
I disagree on principle. Don't use real life science to explain comics.
He himself even differentiates between running speed and combat speed. When that was what I was doing.
Running speed IS combat speed.
The difference is I don't try to treat these things as concrete concepts in fiction. As they are not universally defined in it. They are incredibly inconsistent. You would have to dishonestly say all pieces of fiction work the exact same way.
They work on a common ground. As of now pretty much every writer who has written for DC comics has written for marvel and vice-versa.
Now he is saying it is but "not in regards to Silver Surfer and Thor because I say so."
Especially for silver surfer or Thor.
Despite mountains of evidence proving him wrong.
Like what?
Could he be even more blatant about his bias?
Yes, I could be. I can always say Surfer and Thor are FTL because some shit happened in a comic a long time ago one time.
The only thing we can do is differ back, and use instances we see in life. As that is the only way we can do it objectively. As real life is separated from our subjective opinions.
No real life shit. Go to the forum which uses real life scenarios to explain comic books.
This is not that forum.
Originally posted by abhilegend I disagree on principle. Don't use real life science to explain comics.
So, you admit that you're disagreeing with me for no reason besides the fact you have an emotional investment in this?
Don't use your personal fantasies, and apply them universally to all comic books. As if you're the law in regards to comic books.
Running speed IS combat speed.
You just said it wasn't in one of your three long posts, and now you're just saying it's not because of your aforementioned nonsensical principles.
They work on a common ground.
Which is being defined by you. Which is the worst thing you can do in debate. You're making the rules for how it works when your opinion holds no more water than mine.
As of now pretty much every writer who has written for DC comics has written for marvel and vice-versa.
So, you're trying to say all writers are in a sort of hive-mind which exists for the sole purpose of agreeing with your interpretation of combat speed and running speed?
Especially for silver surfer or Thor.
You're not helping your case by exhibiting your bias once again.
Like what?
The many scans I posted which you attempted to handwave by butchering the context.
Yes, I could be.
I find that hard to believe.
I can always say Surfer and Thor are FTL because some shit happened in a comic a long time ago one time.
That's not what I did.
I provided numerous instances across different times. Not just one or two examples. What you're doing now is attempting to build a false narrative.
I could do the same with Superman, and you would cry foul. Heck, I could do the same for Darkseid and you would cry foul.
Despite the fact Darkseid has even less instances than either Thor or Silver Surfer.
Not unless you dishonestly rely solely on fights between characters. When they're hilariously inconsistent in regards to what they're actually capable of.
Just take instances such as Lobo being hurt by normal handguns in Hitman.
Comic books are notorious regarding this.
No real life shit. Go to the forum which uses real life scenarios to explain comic books.
It's better than using subjective opinions, arbitrary standards as determined by you and only you, and acting as if your word is law.
Which is what you're doing right now.
This is not that forum.
It doesn't matter.
There is a universal standard for debate that puts a focus on objectivity over subjectivity. The truth should be what matters, and that relies on constructive analysis.
