Q can and has brought back the dead. iirc, the Duowd (sp?) also can.
The Romulan/Cardassian fleet from "Die is Cast" did heavy damage to a planet with their first volley. Though I don't recall the actual numbers.
At the end of "Scorpion" part 1, iirc, the bioships do their combo thing and destroy a planet, from which the Cube towing Voyager does a runner.
Originally posted by Nai
Did I mention the lack of opponents?The Narada wouldn't even get through a star destroyers shields. Once more: Star Destroyers generate about as much energy as our sun. They can channel most of that into their shields - 15,000 times as much energy as the Enterprise-D. So the Narada won't get through. In return, the firepower of a Star Destroyer would probably destroy the Narada with a single volley.
Apparently, you are still underestimating SW tech.
We see Nuclear Warheads (Photon Torpedos) tetonating on the surface of the Death Star and not doing significant damage. I wonder what ST weaponary would do agains that.I really don't need to prove myself in the eyes of some random troll on the net, who couldn't even accept it, if I did. 😉
You backed down like you always do. You post and do your disappearing act.
Based on ? Star destroyers don't have the feats to back up your biased, wet dreams. The Starkiller has the power of a sun and that's the most powerful Star Wars weapon to date. We saw how indestructible that station turned out to be against a few guys with no real plan just show up and make things happen.
Two destroyers have be shown to be so laughable they couldn't stop from crashing into and destroying each other. The Narada decimated well ver two dozen Klingon war ships along with multiple Federation ships. Do not argue hyperbole but actually give an important instance of the destroyer doing something extraordinary.
NuTrek can create black holes. Bye, bye Death Star.
You never tire of just telling me how you'd win but never setting foot in the arena. A true coward through and through. Keep chirping, little birdie.
Originally posted by playa1258The jellyfish can use the red matter as well. They can teleport. The Narada would destroy the Death Star before it knew what hit it. But keep in mind you ain't seen nuthin' yet. Wait till behind hits because from what I've seen its going to get worse for Star Wars.
You are forgetting that the Narada has to use the drilling platform in order to use red matter. The Death Star would easily be able to destroy it.No way the Narada can repel firepower of that magnitude.
Originally posted by -Pr-
Q can and has brought back the dead. iirc, the Duowd (sp?) also can.
The Q had a war in which some of them died. So, apparently, they can't bring back the dead. And the entire story about the Douwd is, that they can't.
The Romulan/Cardassian fleet from "Die is Cast" did heavy damage to a planet with their first volley. Though I don't recall the actual numbers.
I highlighted the important part...
At the end of "Scorpion" part 1, iirc, the bioships do their combo thing and destroy a planet, from which the Cube towing Voyager does a runner.
You're correct.
Originally posted by quanchi112
You backed down like you always do. You post and do your disappearing act.
There is no point in going on after winning (or after having no more use for cheap entertainment).
Based on ? Star destroyers don't have the feats to back up your biased, wet dreams. The Starkiller has the power of a sun and that's the most powerful Star Wars weapon to date. We saw how indestructible that station turned out to be against a few guys with no real plan just show up and make things happen.
Based on firepower, shield capacities and other things that require power.
Here you have a breakdown of firepower from blaster guns to the Death Star laser. Here is another overview regarding power generation. Almost everything done with nothing but evidence from the OT.
Two destroyers have be shown to be so laughable they couldn't stop from crashing into and destroying each other.
Yeah.
Except for the fact that they didn't crash into eachother and weren't destroyed.
Maybe you want to stop talking about stuff you have clearly no idea about (e.g. Star Wars and virtually everything else)?
The Narada decimated well ver two dozen Klingon war ships along with multiple Federation ships. Do not argue hyperbole but actually give an important instance of the destroyer doing something extraordinary.
Did I mention already, that the energy output of a Star Destroyer is 15,000 times as high as that of your usual Federation ship? So you may want to give me a call when the Narada solos entire NuTrek fleets with single shots, which is the kind of firepower that is required to get through a Star Destroyers shields.
NuTrek can create black holes. Bye, bye Death Star.
I beg to differ: NuTrek can create one black hole. And while I'd love to read how exactly they would get that nice red matter anywhere close to a Death Star in order to do the job, it would just be enough for one Death Star. Which leaves a second Death Star, the Executor and the rest of the Imperial Navy and Rebel fleet.
You never tire of just telling me how you'd win but never setting foot in the arena. A true coward through and through. Keep chirping, little birdie.
Yeah.
I'm very well aware of your cognitive disfunctions, but just to point it out for you: I'm just arguing SW vs ST with you now and am winning. And the result will still be the same in summer. So the "fight" is over before it has started. But thanks for playing. Maybe someone accepts your challenge, giving that "winning" can now be done by linking my posts here. 👆
Originally posted by Nai
Star Wars has beings that have complete control over space, time, matter and - unlike anybody we've seen in Star Trek, can bring back the dead.You are aware of the fact, that Coruscant alone has more than a trillion inhabitants?. One single planet in the Star Wars universe. You were saying? And Star Wars, you know, spans an entire Galaxy, with the Republic alone having more than a million member systems. And this is just a momentary picture out of history that spans a 100,000 years with interstellar space-travel being used as long as 40,000 years at last.
You may want to check your facts before opening your mouth.
First: The Katana fleet just had 200 ships, of which 178 were active in Thrawn time. Second: They were just a "game changer" in the state of the Galaxy at that particular point. In the hight of the Galactic Empire, 200 capital ships of that size wouldn't even have been noticed given the size of the Imperial Navy.And still, a Star Destroyer has the energy output of a small sun, which kind of dwarves everything the Borg have access to.
I think you wanted to say "days" and not "minutes", and just after those hubs have been installed. Otherwise a 10,000 lightyear journey takes even the Borg a year. Your usual hyperdrive in SW can do that in about an hour.
Emperor Vitiate (SW:TOR) has depopulized entire planets with Force rituals and was about to end all life in the SW Galaxy with one. And, unlike the Douwd, the Bedlam spirits of the SW universe were not only capable of killing with a thought - but ressurecting at will. Pretty much beyond anything ST has to offer.
Yup. That worked quite well for them, didn't it?
Nice.
Kuat Drive Yards, the facility that produces those nice Star Destroyers, is built as a connected ring orbiting a planet. The main idea about a Dyson sphere is harnessing all power a star puts out. The Star Forge and Starkiller base in the SW universe are capable of doing the same. The two Death Stars even produce far more power than your usual sun. And, by the way, the second Death Star was build in less than three years. I wonder how long the construction of the Dyson sphere took.And of course, the SW universe has Centerpoint Station, a tech relic capable of moving planets around space with FTL speeds.
*Yawn*
The Sun Crusher, a virtual indestructible ship, could vaporize entire star systems by causing supernovas. It was just a little bit bigger than a starfighter, had just a single pilot and had to be navigated into a black hole in order to get rid of it.And seriously: When did those bioships ever destroy a planet?
Really?
I'm not sure you even understand what "Base Delta Zero" means. It means reducing the top soil of the planet (to a depth of several kilometers) to molten slag. Depopulizing a planet or even destroying the surface is within the possibilities of todays humanity. A "Base Delta Zero" operation is not. And that is still nothing compared to the Death Stars, Starkiller base or the Sun Crusher.In the mind of somebody who has clearly zero idea about the SWU, that might be the case...
You clearly have no clue what you're talking about as almost everything you stated is factually incorrect.
Originally posted by Nai
The Q had a war in which some of them died. So, apparently, they can't bring back the dead. And the entire story about the Douwd is, that they can't.I highlighted the important part...
You're correct.
How does Q dying mean they can't bring back the dead?
It being a fleet matters? All right...
I'd forgotten that about the Duowd; my bad.
Originally posted by NaiYou can give all the excuses you want but don't think for a nanosecond you're fooling me.
There is no point in going on after winning (or after having no more use for cheap entertainment).Based on firepower, shield capacities and other things that require power.
Here you have a breakdown of firepower from blaster guns to the Death Star laser. Here is another overview regarding power generation. Almost everything done with nothing but evidence from the OT.
Yeah.
Except for the fact that they didn't crash into eachother and weren't destroyed.Maybe you want to stop talking about stuff you have clearly no idea about (e.g. Star Wars and virtually everything else)?
Did I mention already, that the energy output of a Star Destroyer is [b]15,000 times
as high as that of your usual Federation ship? So you may want to give me a call when the Narada solos entire NuTrek fleets with single shots, which is the kind of firepower that is required to get through a Star Destroyers shields.I beg to differ: NuTrek can create one black hole. And while I'd love to read how exactly they would get that nice red matter anywhere close to a Death Star in order to do the job, it would just be enough for one Death Star. Which leaves a second Death Star, the Executor and the rest of the Imperial Navy and Rebel fleet.
Yeah.
I'm very well aware of your cognitive disfunctions, but just to point it out for you: I'm just arguing SW vs ST with you now and am winning. And the result will still be the same in summer. So the "fight" is over before it has started. But thanks for playing. Maybe someone accepts your challenge, giving that "winning" can now be done by linking my posts here. 👆 [/B]
That is nerd speculative propaganda. Star Wars is a Sci and fantasy film. It's mystical and non progressive all rolled into one. What matters is portrayal, abilities, and how these things stack up. In this debate you'd be hard pressed to prove how awesome a destroyer is on screen. You can rant and rave about whatever mathematical hocus pocus you want but they just aren't impressive. Ffs they can't even manage to take the Millenium Falcon half the time.
My iPad deleted the word almost. My point was we see how utterly zombiesque they are in their manuverability. It's downright pathetic. Your clip shows how immobile they are. They are gigantic targets and nothing more.
Again another silly little unproven number you're tossing around as a fact. Portrayals and actual feats matter not nerd speculation on a Sci Fi and fantasy film. The rebels have embarrassed the empire on how many occasions ? Han Solo provided Luke Skywalker amidst a ragtag bunch of rebels the necessary assistance to outdo Darth Vader and destroy the Death Star.
The scene even further highlights the mystical aspect when he shuts off his targeting system to use the damn force.
The Narada has the showings the star destroyers, hell even the Death Star can't add to its resume.
All they need is a few drops of red matter. Did you see the size of the tube which shows how many different black hole servings that would be in store for the empire.
The rebels sure got close enough to and destroyed the Death Star. You do realize the NuTrek third film is going to give them thousand of new small ships per the new director. Are you connecting the dots yet ? Of course you aren't.
You already lost and the funny thing is I don't ever reveal my aces in the hole until the actual battlezone commences. The only thing you've done is nerd speculate and ignore how the films portray the Star Wars ships; pathetic and incompetent just like yourself. There's a certain arrogance that pervaded from the top (emperor) all the way down to the stormtrooper grunts who were routed by friggin ewoks up until they lost to the embarrassing rebel alliance.
Ewoks, dude.
😂 😂
Originally posted by jaden101
You clearly have no clue what you're talking about as almost everything you stated is factually incorrect.
Oh. Well.
We've seen that the last time when we discussed the topic, which was you pointing to non-existant "explanations" and assuming that power generation for SW ships is given in "watts per lifetime". 😉
Maybe you just want to get out before you hurt yourself. And thanks for that great counter to my arguments, Sir.
Originally posted by quanchi112
You can give all the excuses you want but don't think for a nanosecond you're fooling me.
🙄
That is nerd speculative propaganda. Star Wars is a Sci and fantasy film. It's mystical and non progressive all rolled into one. What matters is portrayal, abilities, and how these things stack up. In this debate you'd be hard pressed to prove how awesome a destroyer is on screen. You can rant and rave about whatever mathematical hocus pocus you want but they just aren't impressive. Ffs they can't even manage to take the Millenium Falcon half the time.
That "mathematical hocus pocus", otherwise none as hard facts is clearly beyond your mental faculties. That doesn't make it less correct. And, well. You want to know how awesome Star Destroyers are? They carry that name for a reason, you know?
Furthermore is it rather silly to base arguments on rather emotional categories ("they don't look impressive"😉. In fact, that's exactly what people do who lack the intellect to perform more abstract thinking. Thanks for outing yourself as one of the kind. 👆
My iPad deleted the word almost. My point was we see how utterly zombiesque they are in their manuverability. It's downright pathetic. Your clip shows how immobile they are. They are gigantic targets and nothing more.
I have the feeling that your iPad did also delete most of the reasonable thoughts you - of course - had written down somewhere.
When talking about manouverability, you would need a reference point...for 1.6 kilometer long starships. I'm not sure that the NuTrek films offer much in comparison. Oh. Well. It does. The USS Vengeance. Which was, essentiall, hanging around in space like a big target. 👆 Not that the other ships weren't doing much in terms of "manouvers", with Spock's spacefighter sized vessel being the sole exception.
Again another silly little unproven number you're tossing around as a fact. Portrayals and actual feats matter not nerd speculation on a Sci Fi and fantasy film. The rebels have embarrassed the empire on how many occasions ? Han Solo provided Luke Skywalker amidst a ragtag bunch of rebels the necessary assistance to outdo Darth Vader and destroy the Death Star.
Mathematics still aren't "nerd speculation".
And the Rebels did "embarrass" the Empire three times. In ANH because of exploiting a heat vent with a shot that should have been impossible, but wasn't because...
The scene even further highlights the mystical aspect when he shuts off his targeting system to use the damn force.
...as you highlighted so kindly, they were essentially attacked by a space wizzard. In ESB they are "embarrased" because some of the commanding officers made a mistake (leaving hyperspace too early, given the Rebels time to activate their planetary shielding). And in ROTJ they "embarrass" the Empire, because Sidious gets cocky (withholding the firepower of the entire fleet from the final engagement). None of that would happen in a space-battle between those universes.
The Narada has the showings the star destroyers, hell even the Death Star can't add to its resume.
Laughable. I will tell you why...
All they need is a few drops of red matter. Did you see the size of the tube which shows how many different black hole servings that would be in store for the empire.
Urm. No.
What they do need, is drilling into the core of a planet and inject the red matter there in order to create a black hole. If they could just put a few drops of it anywhere, there would be no need to drill into the planet core in order to create a black hole (e.g. on the surface) and destroy the planet with it.
We see what happens, when the stuff (and a rather large quantity of it) is put at a random place. It does generate something similar to a black hole, yes. But using all red matter present in the movie. So they can do that once in space.
And they would still need to get rather close to the Death Star in order to get the job done - with the entire SW fleet in their way. Not much of an option.
The rebels sure got close enough to and destroyed the Death Star. You do realize the NuTrek third film is going to give them thousand of new small ships per the new director. Are you connecting the dots yet ? Of course you aren't.
Urm.
"The battle station is heavily shielded and carries a firepower greater than half the star fleet. It's defenses are designed around a direct large-scale assault. A small one-man fighter should be able to penetrate the outer defense." - Admiral Dodonna, Star Wars - Episode IV: A new hope.
Emphasis mine. I haven't seen much "small one man fighters" in the NuTrek universe. And then, the Rebels just made it because there wasn't an entire Fleet protecting the Death Star, which would be the case in our little scenario.
And you do realize that the shot that destroyed the Death Star was impossible without the use of the Force? You know...launching torpedos that do a 90 degree turn with perfect timing to travel down a 80-kilometer-shaft to blow up the Death Star. So, pray tell: Does the next Star Trek film feature Jedi or Sith?
You already lost and the funny thing is I don't ever reveal my aces in the hole until the actual battlezone commences. The only thing you've done is nerd speculate and ignore how the films portray the Star Wars ships; pathetic and incompetent just like yourself. There's a certain arrogance that pervaded from the top (emperor) all the way down to the stormtrooper grunts who were routed by friggin ewoks up until they lost to the embarrassing rebel alliance.Ewoks, dude.
What I ignore is your idea of how the films portray the ships. Or, to be more accurate, that those things manouverability isn't expected to be that high (size!) and doesn't even matter, considering what they are built for (firepower, shielding).
Urm. And you do realize that the Ewoks are being totally decimated, before Chewbacca takes over the AT-ST and attacks the Imperial troops, despite the fact that they outnumbered the Stormtroopers? Just asking...
Did you even see one of the Star Wars movies?
Originally posted by Nai
Oh. Well.
We've seen that the last time when we discussed the topic, which was you pointing to non-existant "explanations" and assuming that power generation for SW ships is given in "watts per lifetime". 😉
Maybe you just want to get out before you hurt yourself. And thanks for that great counter to my arguments, Sir.🙄
That "mathematical hocus pocus", otherwise none as hard facts is clearly beyond your mental faculties. That doesn't make it less correct. And, well. You want to know how awesome Star Destroyers are? They carry that name for a reason, you know?
Furthermore is it rather silly to base arguments on rather emotional categories ("they don't look impressive"😉. In fact, that's exactly what people do who lack the intellect to perform more abstract thinking. Thanks for outing yourself as one of the kind. 👆
I have the feeling that your iPad did also delete most of the reasonable thoughts you - of course - had written down somewhere.
When talking about manouverability, you would need a reference point...for 1.6 kilometer long starships. I'm not sure that the NuTrek films offer much in comparison. Oh. Well. It does. The USS Vengeance. Which was, essentiall, hanging around in space like a big target. 👆 Not that the other ships weren't doing much in terms of "manouvers", with Spock's spacefighter sized vessel being the sole exception.
Mathematics still aren't "nerd speculation".
And the Rebels did "embarrass" the Empire three times. In ANH because of exploiting a heat vent with a shot that should have been impossible, but wasn't because......as you highlighted so kindly, they were essentially attacked by a space wizzard. In ESB they are "embarrased" because some of the commanding officers made a mistake (leaving hyperspace too early, given the Rebels time to activate their planetary shielding). And in ROTJ they "embarrass" the Empire, because Sidious gets cocky (withholding the firepower of the entire fleet from the final engagement). None of that would happen in a space-battle between those universes.
Laughable. I will tell you why...
Urm. No.
What they do need, is drilling into the core of a planet and inject the red matter there in order to create a black hole. If they could just put a few drops of it anywhere, there would be no need to drill into the planet core in order to create a black hole (e.g. on the surface) and destroy the planet with it.We see what happens, when the stuff (and a rather large quantity of it) is put at a random place. It does generate something similar to a black hole, yes. But using all red matter present in the movie. So they can do that once in space.
And they would still need to get rather close to the Death Star in order to get the job done - with the entire SW fleet in their way. Not much of an option.
Urm.
"The battle station is heavily shielded and carries a firepower greater than half the star fleet. It's defenses are designed around a direct large-scale assault. [b]A small one-man fighter
should be able to penetrate the outer defense." - Admiral Dodonna, Star Wars - Episode IV: A new hope.Emphasis mine. I haven't seen much "small one man fighters" in the NuTrek universe. And then, the Rebels just made it because there wasn't an entire Fleet protecting the Death Star, which would be the case in our little scenario.
And you do realize that the shot that destroyed the Death Star was impossible without the use of the Force? You know...launching torpedos that do a 90 degree turn with perfect timing to travel down a 80-kilometer-shaft to blow up the Death Star. So, pray tell: Does the next Star Trek film feature Jedi or Sith?
What I ignore is your idea of how the films portray the ships. Or, to be more accurate, that those things manouverability isn't expected to be that high (size!) and doesn't even matter, considering what they are built for (firepower, shielding).
Urm. And you do realize that the Ewoks are being totally decimated, before Chewbacca takes over the AT-ST and attacks the Imperial troops, despite the fact that they outnumbered the Stormtroopers? Just asking...
Did you even see one of the Star Wars movies? [/B]
A movie with a big emphasis on fantasy has nothing to do with the real world, fanboy. So now you're going to rely on their name as a debating point. That's how far gone you are when you've actually just said, hey they are called the star destroyers for a reason. That's not how debating works. We rely on portrayals, abilities, and feats.
Dude, this is the same universe where primitive ewoks can beat the shit out of trained Stormtroopers. If you think this is realistic I'd suggest coming back to reality. My debating is consistent while yours isn't but what makes this even more interesting is the fact you won't accept the challenge.
Ad hominem attack which doesn't undermine the clear point they are very slow maneuverability wise.
We see USS Vengeance is very impressive in terms of combat speed and in terms of what it can tank while still partially working. The destroyers not so much. You see the weapons Khan built were more impressive combat wise than Wars here. Look at his guns, his torpedoes, and his ship. Sorry, but Wars doesn't have Khan. Shame. You've had wookiees still using the the cross casters for 60 years.
Space wizards were annihilated by clones in rots. They are a myth to the general public in the new episode because they are that rare. The only reason the space wizard had the opportunity was due to the skill and interjection of Han Solo. I'm glad you agreed Sidious is a cocky, stupid fool in that scene. Guess who is more ruthless, Khan. Guess who can teleport, Trek. Guess who has better tech, Trek.
Wars has greater numbers but it looks like Beyond has at the least 4,000 plus ships to aid to its arsenal per the director.
Do tell.
False, and you need to see the film again. We see its used minus drilling into the center of the planets. We also see Spock Prime use it to stop the supernova. We see it used multiple instances thereafter as well as in space.
With thousands of Star Trek ships as well as massive ships along with it and I don't see the problem. Oh yeah, teleportation. The tie fighters are still being used 30 some years later after ROTJ. Trek has already progressed after Narada came into the screen. Lucky for you Marcus didn't get his wish and militarize Starfleet but even at this point with their enemies they still come out on top.
You haven't seen the Star Trek Beyond trailer then. As I've said we see very small enemy ships and the director per interview said in the one scene there are 4,000 of them.
It was hard in the situation Luke was in but it wasn't impossible. You see in Trek when Kirk's navigational system went out he needed Khan's assistance but in Star Wars they go with the force. Trek will make it a mathematical certainty they hit their target. Dude, the Jedi and Sith were down for a reason. Trek will absolutely rape the Sith and Jedi in either trilogy.
They can be built for firepower and shielding all they want. They haven't withstood the tech from trek. Hell, as I've pointed out we see Han and Chewie using the same weapons for over three decades. Trek tech progresses and quickly. Wars occasionally gets greater super weapons but those are few and far between. They've also been easily taken down by just a small handful of rebels. The training, tech, and personnel on board in one of these trek ships is enough to make Star Wars blush. I mean you have Han Solo mid battle using wrenches to fix things during mid battle so how bad can it be.
So a few rebels can turn the tide just taking over one of their vehicles. That's my point. Ewoks still posed a threat despite the tech edge and all it took was a few others. Throw the Klingons at the Ewoks and they'd eat them for breakfast.
Trek wins, it's just superior.
Originally posted by quanchi112
A movie with a big emphasis on fantasy has nothing to do with the real world, fanboy. So now you're going to rely on their name as a debating point. That's how far gone you are when you've actually just said, hey they are called the star destroyers for a reason. That's not how debating works. We rely on portrayals, abilities, and feats.
Urm. Yes.
If a Star Destroyer is capable of vaporizing asteroids the size of the Millenium Falcon using their light weapons, this is some impressive display of firepower. If they can fly through a rather dense asteroid field for days without getting their ships destroyed, this is an impressive display of their shields capacities. The math just serves to illustrate how impressive that is exactly.
And proclaiming that some fantasy movie has nothing to do with the real world is rather idiotic. We can only use our real world as reference point to judge and interprete the action happening on screen. I prefer using math and physics - you prefere using your opinion and "impressions" you gained from the movies, that don't have much to do with the stuff actually happening on screen.
Dude, this is the same universe where primitive ewoks can beat the shit out of trained Stormtroopers. If you think this is realistic I'd suggest coming back to reality.
Except for the fact that they can't. The Stormtroopers are beaten by Chewbacca highjacking an AT-ST and taking squads of them down, as well as taking another AT-ST out. Before that the Ewoks - while outnumbering the Stormtroopers - are getting stomped. So do I consider it realistic, that the imperial troops can be beaten if somebody uses their own equipment against them, especially when that somebody uses an armored vehicle against infantery? Yes.
Ad hominem attack which doesn't undermine the clear point they are very slow maneuverability wise.
Which still doesn't matter, because manouverability is a complete non-issue, as they don't need it to attack (vast firepower) nor defend (shields) and, furthermore, carry TIE-Fighters to do the job when manouverability does become an issue.
We see USS Vengeance is very impressive in terms of combat speed and in terms of what it can tank while still partially working.
That translates into "manouverability" how exactly? 😉 It can fly in a straight line. Which is great. If Warp combat speed (read FTL speed) would be any good in a space battle where your target doesn't move at FTL speed, mentioning the combat speed would make sense.
In this case, they would be forced to move on impulse speed. And well. The USS Vengeance doesn't even manage to take out an unshielded Enterprise after half a minute of firing at it. And that is the most advanced spacecraft the Federation has to offer so far.
In comparison: The light turbolasers of a Star Destroyer deal compareable damage to the fire of the USS Vengeance. And there are dozens of Star Destroyers in the OT, when there is only one USS Vengeance.
The destroyers not so much. You see the weapons Khan built were more impressive combat wise than Wars here. Look at his guns, his torpedoes, and his ship. Sorry, but Wars doesn't have Khan. Shame. You've had wookiees still using the the cross casters for 60 years.
🙄
See above.
Again, you cast your judgement based on personal feelings ("they look impressive"😉, rather than taking a step back and accepting the real facts. The USS Vengeance and the weapons on the ship look impressive in the NuTrek universe. Compared to the firepower of a Star Destroyer, you're dealing with a toy.
I'm glad you agreed Sidious is a cocky, stupid fool in that scene. Guess who is more ruthless, Khan. Guess who can teleport, Trek. Guess who has better tech, Trek.
Wars has greater numbers but it looks like Beyond has at the least 4,000 plus ships to aid to its arsenal per the director.
Yes.
"In that scene" being the important part of your statement. Because this is the same Sidious that manouvered himself into the position of Emperor via ruthless political planning and causing a Galaxy scale war. Compared to the high ranking commanders in the Empire, Khan is a sissy. I didn't see Khan killing billions just to make a point, where Tarkin destroyed Alderaan. I didn't see Khan slaughtering children like Vader did in RotS or attempting to kill the people close to him (likewise Vader in RotS with both Padme and Obi-Wan). Instead, he failed because of wanting to save his crew. Ruthless? Laughable.
False, and you need to see the film again. We see its used minus drilling into the center of the planets. We also see Spock Prime use it to stop the supernova. We see it used multiple instances thereafter as well as in space.
Urm.
We see the red matter in use on three occassions.
1)
Narada drilling into the core of Vulcan and shooting red matter into the hole.
2)
Spock launching some of it into a supernova.
3)
Spock's ship crashing into the Narada.
What of these do you think is applicable in a space-battle between SW and ST forces? I mean: Obviously, the effects of the red matter are generated via some antimatter-matter reaction (as it is transported in a vacuum). So simply launching it into space will do jack shit. It needs to get in contact with other matter in order to "ignite". Whether this will work on a shielded target (any SW ship) is everyone's guess.
But even assuming that it will. How do you think it will get there? With those rather slow torpedos they fire? By flying Spock's ship through a cloud of starfighters and capital ships? Just asking.
Oh yeah, teleportation.
You do realize that Star Wars ships are constantly emitting jamming signals? So I'd say that transportation would be rather hard to do. And even if it should work. Where is the point in using teleportation? Sending boarding parties to ships that carry ten-thousand (Star Destroyers) or millions (Death Stars) of troops?
And even if somebody gets particularly clever (e.g. devising a plan to beam red matter "bombs" into SW ships) they wouldn't have time to realize such a plan, as the SW armarda would reduce ST to space dust in under a minute.
The tie fighters are still being used 30 some years later after ROTJ. Trek has already progressed after Narada came into the screen. Lucky for you Marcus didn't get his wish and militarize Starfleet but even at this point with their enemies they still come out on top.
You do realize that, just because something looks like something else, they don't have to be the same thing. And in case of the TIE-fighters they added a gunner to the pilot and equipped the things with weapon that could fire forward and backward. Furthermore you do realize that one doesn't need to "progress" from technical inventions when something works rather fine? Especially not in a conflict with a technologically inferior enemy...like the ST universe.
You haven't seen the Star Trek Beyond trailer then. As I've said we see very small enemy ships and the director per interview said in the one scene there are 4,000 of them.
Oh. I have. And I can just ask: Where is the point?
It was hard in the situation Luke was in but it wasn't impossible.
Impossible for everyone not being a force user.
They can be built for firepower and shielding all they want. They haven't withstood the tech from trek. Hell, as I've pointed out we see Han and Chewie using the same weapons for over three decades. Trek tech progresses and quickly. Wars occasionally gets greater super weapons but those are few and far between. They've also been easily taken down by just a small handful of rebels. The training, tech, and personnel on board in one of these trek ships is enough to make Star Wars blush. I mean you have Han Solo mid battle using wrenches to fix things during mid battle so how bad can it be.
Yes. You pointing out the lack of progression is of no use, when there is going to be no progression in this fight. They come to the battle, they fight. They don't stick to some planets to develop new superweapons in R&D. And "few" superweapons are clearly better than zero superwapons.
And, well. A single Star Wars ship, powered by a "miniature sun" does still put every ST ship to shame. After a minute, the battlefield will look like the orbit of Vulcan. Destroyed ST ships everywhere...
So a few rebels can turn the tide just taking over one of their vehicles. That's my point. Ewoks still posed a threat despite the tech edge and all it took was a few others. Throw the Klingons at the Ewoks and they'd eat them for breakfast.Trek wins, it's just superior.
They took over one of the three AT-STs present and destroyed one of the other two with it. And geez. Did I miss the Klingon armies in NuTrek so far? Because SW fields quite a lot of ground forces and military personal and vessels for ground combat where NuTrek has...a hand full of troops?
Originally posted by Nai
Urm. Yes.
If a Star Destroyer is capable of vaporizing asteroids the size of the Millenium Falcon using their light weapons, this is some impressive display of firepower. If they can fly through a rather dense asteroid field for days without getting their ships destroyed, this is an impressive display of their shields capacities. The math just serves to illustrate how impressive that is exactly.And proclaiming that some fantasy movie has nothing to do with the real world is rather idiotic. We can only use our real world as reference point to judge and interprete the action happening on screen. I prefer using math and physics - you prefere using your opinion and "impressions" you gained from the movies, that don't have much to do with the stuff actually happening on screen.
Except for the fact that [b]they can't
. The Stormtroopers are beaten by Chewbacca highjacking an AT-ST and taking squads of them down, as well as taking another AT-ST out. Before that the Ewoks - while outnumbering the Stormtroopers - are getting stomped. So do I consider it realistic, that the imperial troops can be beaten if somebody uses their own equipment against them, especially when that somebody uses an armored vehicle against infantery? Yes.Which still doesn't matter, because manouverability is a complete non-issue, as they don't need it to attack (vast firepower) nor defend (shields) and, furthermore, carry TIE-Fighters to do the job when manouverability does become an issue.
That translates into "manouverability" how exactly? 😉 It can fly in a straight line. Which is great. If Warp combat speed (read FTL speed) would be any good in a space battle where your target doesn't move at FTL speed, mentioning the combat speed would make sense.
In this case, they would be forced to move on impulse speed. And well. The USS Vengeance doesn't even manage to take out an unshielded Enterprise after half a minute of firing at it. And that is the most advanced spacecraft the Federation has to offer so far.
In comparison: The light turbolasers of a Star Destroyer deal compareable damage to the fire of the USS Vengeance. And there are dozens of Star Destroyers in the OT, when there is only one USS Vengeance.
🙄
See above.
Again, you cast your judgement based on personal feelings ("they look impressive"😉, rather than taking a step back and accepting the real facts. The USS Vengeance and the weapons on the ship look impressive in the NuTrek universe. Compared to the firepower of a Star Destroyer, you're dealing with a toy.Yes.
"In that scene" being the important part of your statement. Because this is the same Sidious that manouvered himself into the position of Emperor via ruthless political planning and causing a Galaxy scale war. Compared to the high ranking commanders in the Empire, Khan is a sissy. I didn't see Khan killing billions just to make a point, where Tarkin destroyed Alderaan. I didn't3)
Spock's ship crashing into the Narada.What of these do you think is applicable in a space-battle between SW and ST forces? I mean: Obviously, the effects of the red matter are generated via some antimatter-matter reaction (as it is transported in a vacuum). So simply launching it into space will do jack shit. It needs to get in contact with other matter in order to "ignite". Whether this will work on a shielded target (any SW ship) is everyone's guess.
But even assuming that it will. How do you think it will get there? With those rather slow torpedos they fire? By flying Spock's ship through a cloud of starfighters and capital ships? Just asking.
You do realize that Star Wars ships are constantly emitting jamming signals? So I'd say that transportation would be rather hard to do. And even if it should work. Where is the point in using teleportation? Sending boarding parties to ships that carry ten-thousand (Star Destroyers) or millions (Death Stars) of troops? same thing. And in case of the TIE-fighters they added a gunner to the pilot and equipped the things with weapon that could fire forward and backward. Furthermore you do realize that one doesn't need to "progress" from technical inventions when something works rather fine? Especially not in a conflict with a technologically inferior enemy...like the ST universe.
Oh. I have. And I can just ask: Where is the point?
Impossible for everyone not being a force user.
Yes. You pointing out the lack of progression is of no use, when there is going to be no progression in this fight. They come to the battle, they fight. They don't stick to some planets to develop new superweapons in R&D. And "few" superweapons are clearly better than zero superwapons.
And, well. A single Star Wars ship, powered by a "miniature sun" does still put every ST ship to shame. After a minute, the battlefield will look like the orbit of Vulcan. Destroyed ST ships everywhere...
They took over one of the three AT-STs present and destroyed one of the other two with it. And geez. Did I miss the Klingon armies in NuTrek so far? Because SW fields quite a lot of ground forces and military personal and vessels for ground combat where NuTrek has...a hand full of troops? [/B]
What does destroying an asteroid have to do with destroyed a shielded Star Trek ship ? Not really. It just shows their ships can tank asteroids which isn't the same thing as the phasers aboard the enterprise firing or the Khan torpedoes, etc.
I prefer using comparisons in the film and actually what we see them do against ships not made up numbers that don't match up with how things operate in reality.
We see many Stormtroopers taken down by ewoks. We see a ragtag bunch aid in takin the At St and then using this to turn dominate the battlefield. They weren't getting stomped. Their primitive weapons even took out a few. One piece of equipment turned against them really shows how weak they are since they had multiple pieces of said equipment in the first place on their side.
They are sitting targets and haven't shown capable of tanking NuTrek ships. the Narada decimated federation ships and over 30 Klingon ships as well. It did so easily. That's called an impressive ship. Name something one destroyer did anywhere near as impressive. We haven't seen anywhere near as many tie fighters as we have seen from the Beyond ships.
Based on what can it only go in a straight line ? You'd need to prove this claim. when do we see firing for 30 seconds on the enterprise ?
Based on ?
Lol. In the Star Wars universe the bow caster is a powerful weapon whereas Khan has a gun that takes down Klingon shops with a single shot. That's the same as the Trek super ships such as the Narada and the Vengeance. The star destroyers did what again exactly on screen ?
That's neither here nor there as this is a space battle not a playground for him to act in his own benefit with access to his enemies inner thoughts and plans. Khan decimated his universes Palpatine and killed him personally. He's smarter than any clod in the imperial empire. Tarkin was destroyed on his Death Star due to his own arrogance. Khan acted alone whereas Tarkin had the backing of an empire, a powerful battle station against a ragtag group of rebels and he still lost. Tarkin didn't even design the Death Star. Khan would make the empire envious due to his intelligence and ruthlessness.
Yeah Vader killing kids with thousands of clones storming the temple is something you would marvel at.
Nero killed billions and intended on killing more. Khan cared for his crew and Vader cared and wanted to save his own son. If Khan and Vader don't care about you they'll both kill you so let's not act like his crew is on the Star Wars side. They aren't. They stare numerous times how ruthless he is but you pretending he isn't further shows your despicable bias.
2) we see a small amount create a black hole when Spock uses it thus only a small amount is needed. They don't need to go planet to planet here but rather take out the major pieces of the imperial army via battle stations, ships. We already know that when it hits something it reacts to the black hole would take whatever Star Wars ship or battlestation it came into contact with. Your denial of this given further demonstrates your bias.
Teleporting weapons, men, etc.
So you don't think in thirty years their tech should dramatically improve. Lol. It isn't realistic but it's only a negative point for Star Wars since trek precog fesses quite quickly. Ridiculous. Teleportation, black hole weapons, time travel etc. it isn't close tech wise.
A large number of Star Trek mini ships you've been saying they don't have.
Not for Star Trek tech which would make it clear with a mathematical certainty.
Hyperbole and silly. The empire couldn't reduce the rebels to that but trek ship did so on screen. That's evidence whereas your speculation isn't. I have proof to substantiate my claims whereas you don't. The rebellion was pathetic and awful and yet the empire failed to smash it.
They don't need Klingon armies to win. We do see some Klingons, and had over thirty ships mentioned in the first. The sheer numbers Trek will show off in the third film.
That's the thing too we know the major powerhouses in the wars universe but are just discovering more elite forces in the trek universe as in the third film. Just wait and see.
Bill Nye further reiterates my point that Star Wars is magical aka fantasy based a lot more so than Star Trek ever was showing Nai he's wrong and completely delusional.
http://www.ign.com/articles/2015/12/28/bill-nye-on-star-trek-vs-star-wars?utm_source=IGN%20hub%20page&utm_medium=IGN%20(front%20page)&utm_content=7&utm_campaign=Blogroll
Take your humiliation out of my thread you coward.