Originally posted by quanchi112
What does destroying an asteroid have to do with destroyed a shielded Star Trek ship ? Not really. It just shows their ships can tank asteroids which isn't the same thing as the phasers aboard the enterprise firing or the Khan torpedoes, etc.I prefer using comparisons in the film and actually what we see them do against ships not made up numbers that don't match up with how things operate in reality.
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You do realize, that one needs to compare those two universe on some basis, right as virtually everything works differently within them.
But for reference: Watch "The Empire strikes Back", the scene in which the AT-AT destroys the Rebel shield generator. Two bolts are fired. Them exploding on the generator lights up the entire screen for several frames...
The resulting explosion is not only pretty gigantic but also destroys the entire building.
Now those weapons a toys compared to the stuff mounted on star-ships, in particular the heavy turbolasers of the Star Destroyers. Just to give you an impression, here is the size of the guns of a Venator-class in comparison to the Jedi starfighters of Obi-Wan and Anakin:
Close up:
The gun barrels are roughly the size of a Jedi Starfighter cockpit in diameter. So. Those things are massive. But we just see a real "main weapon" fired once in the movies. In the opening sequence of "Revenge of the Sith", where one of the Venator-class destroyers does actually fire one of its heavy weapons, located on the underside of the ship. Here is the shot:
And here the result:
As you can see, the beam just rips the target ship into pieces, generating a massive explosion in the process. By the mere size of that, it would probably blast ships the size of the Enterprise into bits with a single beam.
We see many Stormtroopers taken down by ewoks.
Excuse me. What we see is Stormtroopers being hit by primitive weapons, which don't means they get killed, even if they do fall to the ground temporarily. The pretty much only Ewok kills are two speeder pilots (one exploding with his speeder, the other being violently thrown from his vehicle). The rest of the Stormtroopers being hit...probably not so much...
The only real impressive thing the Ewoks do is destroying the other two AT-STs (one with logs on the ground "tripping" it, the other with logs collding against it both sides simultaneously, destroying it).
We see a ragtag bunch aid in takin the At St and then using this to turn dominate the battlefield.
A ragtag bunch? I wonder who you are referring to? The Ewok warriors, that were in state of constant war in the years before the events in RotJ? The century old Wookie warrior Chewbacca? The war experienced Rebels?
They weren't getting stomped. Their primitive weapons even took out a few. One piece of equipment turned against them really shows how weak they are since they had multiple pieces of said equipment in the first place on their side.
There was just one AT-ST in the immediate vincity of the bunker. It gets hijacked by a Wookie swinging on top and Ewoks luring the personal out. Who should have predicted something like that? That's like saying Khan is a moron because of falling for the final trick in "Into Darkness".
They are sitting targets and haven't shown capable of tanking NuTrek ships.
And the NuTrek ships haven't been shown capable of tanking anything. At least the Star Wars ships can survive space-battles for a rather long time period, where engagements in space in the NuTrek universe are over in seconds, because their ships - shields up or down - can just take a few hits - that usually bypass the shielding anyway.
the Narada decimated federation ships and over 30 Klingon ships as well. It did so easily. That's called an impressive ship. Name something one destroyer did anywhere near as impressive. We haven't seen anywhere near as many tie fighters as we have seen from the Beyond ships.
The Narada is one of ships in the NuTrek that can actually keep up with SW ships in terms of firepower (one or two hits to destroy other ST vessels). It is still quite laughable, which is seen in the scene where they "fire everything they have" on Spock's approaching ship. Which translates into 20 torpedos that slowly crawl through space, which allows the Enterprise to intercept them all with ease.
Based on what can it only go in a straight line ? You'd need to prove this claim. when do we see firing for 30 seconds on the enterprise ?
I never said, that it can only go in a straight line. I said that, based on the manouverability we see in the movies, they don't do much else. And there is a scene in "Into Darkness" where the Vengeance follows the Enterprise into warp and fires on it for 30 seconds until the Enterprise drops out of the warp field.
Lol. In the Star Wars universe the bow caster is a powerful weapon whereas Khan has a gun that takes down Klingon shops with a single shot. That's the same as the Trek super ships such as the Narada and the Vengeance. The star destroyers did what again exactly on screen ?
Nice move to compare something clearly not build as an portable infantry weapon (Khan's boolean gun) to a much smaller weapon (bow caster). Khan's gun is about the size of ground vehicle weapon of the SW universe and those are perfectly capable of taking out vehicles or even destroy buildings. And Khan's gun doesn't destroy the Klingon ships - Khan's aiming just is good enough to kill the pilots [he downs two Klingon ships and both times he shoots into the cockpit].
That's neither here nor there as this is a space battle not a playground for him to act in his own benefit with access to his enemies inner thoughts and plans. Khan decimated his universes Palpatine and killed him personally. He's smarter than any clod in the imperial empire. Tarkin was destroyed on his Death Star due to his own arrogance. Khan acted alone whereas Tarkin had the backing of an empire, a powerful battle station against a ragtag group of rebels and he still lost. Tarkin didn't even design the Death Star. Khan would make the empire envious due to his intelligence and ruthlessness.
Seriously, Quan?
Comparing Marcus to Palpatine is laughable, especially in terms of personal combat skill. I won't deny that Khan is probably the greatest tactical mind involved in a confrontation between the two movie universes. It just won't do him any good, because of the SW universes advantage in terms of warfare related technology.
Yeah Vader killing kids with thousands of clones storming the temple is something you would marvel at.
We were talking about ruthlessness. He went into the Council's chamber alone to kill the Padawans, if I may remind you.
Nero killed billions and intended on killing more. Khan cared for his crew and Vader cared and wanted to save his own son. If Khan and Vader don't care about you they'll both kill you so let's not act like his crew is on the Star Wars side. They aren't. They stare numerous times how ruthless he is but you pretending he isn't further shows your despicable bias.
Once more. We were talking about ruthlessness. Nero wanted revenge. Tarkin blew up Alderaan without any emotion, just to get some information from Leia. Khan doesn't compare in that regard, which is not saying that he isn't ruthless - just that he isn't outright evil (Vader isn't either).
2) we see a small amount create a black hole when Spock uses it thus only a small amount is needed. They don't need to go planet to planet here but rather take out the major pieces of the imperial army via battle stations, ships. We already know that when it hits something it reacts to the black hole would take whatever Star Wars ship or battlestation it came into contact with. Your denial of this given further demonstrates your bias.
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I've specifically asked how they would bring it in contact with ships and battle stations, so saying that I'm ignoring that is rather laughable.
Teleporting weapons, men, etc.
Once more: To ships with ten-thousands (Star Destroyers) or millions (Death Star) of crew members / soldiers on board? Rather futile.
So you don't think in thirty years their tech should dramatically improve. Lol. It isn't realistic but it's only a negative point for Star Wars since trek precog fesses quite quickly. Ridiculous. Teleportation, black hole weapons, time travel etc. it isn't close tech wise.
You may want to think on what level of "tech" they actually are and care about improvements, rather than ignoring them (see TIE-Fighter example that you now ignore). And all the concepts you mention are parts of the SW universe - they just aren't used in the movies.
You may want to think about the fact, that the Empire apparently managed to construct the second Death Star, with a radius of 960 kilometers in the time frame of three years at some remote location to get an idea of their technical capabilities.
A large number of Star Trek mini ships you've been saying they don't have.
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Techically speaken, they don't have them now. And we don't know what they are capable of. Which doesn't matter for my original argument regarding those fighters (in relation to the destruction of the Death Star): They would need a force user to handle the impossible shot that destroyed the battlestation.
Not for Star Trek tech which would make it clear with a mathematical certainty.
I don't even know what you're talking about. Structure your posts.
Hyperbole and silly. The empire couldn't reduce the rebels to that but trek ship did so on screen. That's evidence whereas your speculation isn't. I have proof to substantiate my claims whereas you don't. The rebellion was pathetic and awful and yet the empire failed to smash it.
Oh my god.
They couldn't reduce the Rebels to that, because the Rebels were utilizing the same advanced technology in terms of weapons and shielding that Star Trek doesn't have.
And anything here is "speculation" since you don't have "proof" that an ST ship could take on a SW ship, no matter how much ships they can take out in their own respective universe.
Bill Nye further reiterates my point that Star Wars is magical aka fantasy based a lot more so than Star Trek ever was showing Nai he's wrong and completely delusional.http://www.ign.com/articles/2015/12...m_medium=IGN%20(front%20page)&utm_content=7&utm_campaign=Blogroll
Take your humiliation out of my thread you coward.
I never denied that Star Trek is more "scientific" in a sense. That, kind of, is the point: SW weapons can do stuff that is astonishing because they are more on the fantasy side of things. 😉
But you can educate yourself right here.
Nai, this isn't a debate this is just a challenge issued thread. I'm not having an all out debate now. You can accept and use these posts in the battlezone though. I'll destroy these biased and ridiculous exaggerations but I'm not showing my aces now just to show you up. Just take these two posts since you claim this is easy and copy and paste them there. Since you said there is no evidence to rebut this you'll win. You already did the homework required Iyo so there's no excuse not to copy and paste these posts for our official debate.
Do you accept the challenge ??
Also star destroyer.net is hilariously biased and I've heard of arguments from morons on there where they argue Stormtroopers beat Spider-Man and the Hulk.
Just accept the challenge and we can do this over the summer. Just copy and paste. You have no excuse not to accept now. I mean look at the size of their weapons
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Ps. Don't be a chicken, mcfly.
Not reading back, but can you give a single good reason why anyone would want to do a BZ with you when you almost never finish one? You get stumped on questions/points you can't counter and instead of conceding the match like a gentlemen, you dodge or you bail and stop posting altogether
You're begging people to commit their time and effort and you already have one foot out the door before it starts. That's dishonest debating tactics, imo.
Originally posted by quanchi112
Nai, this isn't a debate this is just a challenge issued thread. I'm not having an all out debate now. You can accept and use these posts in the battlezone though. I'll destroy these biased and ridiculous exaggerations but I'm not showing my aces now just to show you up. Just take these two posts since you claim this is easy and copy and paste them there. Since you said there is no evidence to rebut this you'll win. You already did the homework required Iyo so there's no excuse not to copy and paste these posts for our official debate.
Who is the coward now, Quanchi?
Do you accept the challenge ??
There is no challenge, Quanchi. There still isn't any opponent on the other side. Just you, Quanchi. The guy who can't reveal his "aces", who can't counter arguments, who can't look at anything without extrem bias ("Khan beats every Jedi!"😉. Hell. You can't even come up with structured postings.
So come back to me, when you have a challenge.
Originally posted by RobtardWhat are you talking about ?
Not reading back, but can you give a single good reason why anyone would want to do a BZ with you when you almost never finish one? You get stumped on questions/points you can't counter and instead of conceding the match like a gentlemen, you dodge or you bail and stop posting altogetherYou're begging people to commit their time and effort and you already have one foot out the door before it starts. That's dishonest debating tactics, imo.
My posts are detailed and I'm never stumped. Ever. You're the guy who rage quits.
Originally posted by NaiThis thread isn't intended to debate the topic which we can't until Star Trek Beond releases anyways. Read the op.
Who is the coward now, Quanchi?There is no challenge, Quanchi. There still isn't any opponent on the other side. Just you, Quanchi. The guy who can't reveal his "aces", who can't counter arguments, who can't look at anything without extrem bias ("Khan beats every Jedi!"😉. Hell. You can't even come up with structured postings.
So come back to me, when you have a challenge.
Notevil already accepted and if you back out despite these posts which you took the time to post images and debate despite saying you're not then you're full of shit.
Read my battlezone posts if you think I can't give detailed, structured posts. But what's even funnier is I'm giving you the opportunity to copy and paste your arguments which I will sodomize in the battlezone this summer.
Khan beats the Jedi/Sith based off his ruthlessness, behavior, skill, and his weaponry which is far more powerful than the Jedi have been shown able to handle. Your bias isn't an actual argument despite you believing it to be so. You've already lied about how the red matter works on screen. You're a disingenuous poster who lacks the balls to accept a judged debate.
Just copy and paste. I can even do so for you and you can rebut if you want to this summer and we can let the judges decide.
Originally posted by quanchi112
What are you talking about ?My posts are detailed and I'm never stumped. Ever. You're the guy who rage quits.
You just ran above for fear of having to reveal your "aces". Pathetic.
And your posts are particularly not understandable, because you reply to stuff quoted half a page up in a fashion that suggests, the line you are replying to is right above your reply. Like posting a "Based on?" somewhere in the middle of your own text and leaving it for people to figure out what you were even talking about.
That stuff may make sense inside your head, but it doesn't make out here.
Oh. Wait. That might be the main problem when talking to you. 🙄
Originally posted by RobtardWhat battlezones have I exited ? You just made something up. I've finished more than anyone else on the forum. You always just make things up.
I asked you to give one reason why anyone should commit their time and effort in a BZ considering your history and you dodged the question, pretended ignorance and attacked. It's right above.
Originally posted by RobtardSo one out of 6 ?? I also gave very detailed posts in there but was annoyed at the lack of structure and organization of his posts. He just threw a few paragraphs together with links. He didn't rebut one of my posts. The latest battlezone my opponent never responded well over a month ago. I've never just walked away from post detailed responses in any battlezones.
Really now, off the top of my head Khan Vs Darth Vader.
Originally posted by quanchi112
This thread isn't intended to debate the topic which we can't until Star Trek Beond releases anyways. Read the op.
Nonetheless you started to debate the topic. Now you run from the debate. Cowardice at its finest.
And you would need to be certain of your win even now, without even knowing "Beyond", which is clear from your big talk about the "aces" you've got already. Afraid you can't win your little challenge without them? Pathetic.
Notevil already accepted and if you back out despite these posts which you took the time to post images and debate despite saying you're not then you're full of shit.
Why are you still asking for me to accept, if you already have another participant, Quanchi? Craving for attention, much?
Read my battlezone posts if you think I can't give detailed, structured posts. But what's even funnier is I'm giving you the opportunity to copy and paste your arguments which I will sodomize in the battlezone this summer.
Sorry. I'm already developing a headache for having to read through the stuff you vomit into my general direction. Those huge bunch of texts, where nobody can figure out, what the hell you're even talking about. Not capable of utilizing multi-quotes?
And I don't actually believe you could sodomize anything, even if somebody painted you a detailed picture about how it is done. You lack the required tools. Which is true for both the metaphorical and the non-metaphorical level of that idea.
Khan beats the Jedi/Sith based off his ruthlessness, behavior, skill, and his weaponry which is far more powerful than the Jedi have been shown able to handle. Your bias isn't an actual argument despite you believing it to be so. You've already lied about how the red matter works on screen. You're a disingenuous poster who lacks the balls to accept a judged debate.
Any major force user would crush Khan with the Force. With ease.
And I have described en detail how red matter works on screen. Maybe your confirmation bias made you skip that section of my posting, much like you skip anything not matching your opinion. It's fun to watch. Really. Most entertaining. Much like a child putting his hands over its eyes, assuming that it becomes invisible. 👆
Just copy and paste. I can even do so for you and you can rebut if you want to this summer and we can let the judges decide.
You can have the debate here and now, or you can crawl back under your mom's skirts and cry yourself to sleep, because Nai doesn't want to play with you, little girl. And now bring it on or shut up, Tiffany.
Originally posted by quanchi112
So one out of 6 ?? I also gave very detailed posts in there but was annoyed at the lack of structure and organization of his posts. He just threw a few paragraphs together with links. He didn't rebut one of my posts. The latest battlezone my opponent never responded well over a month ago. I've never just walked away from post detailed responses in any battlezones.
IOW: "I previously lied and am making up excuses now that it's been proven I lied." -quanchi112
Now care to answer my question that you've dodged three times?
Originally posted by NaiI generalized I'm not breaking down the debate in a battlezone challenge thread. The op is clear.
Nonetheless you started to debate the topic. Now you run from the debate. Cowardice at its finest.And you would need to be certain of your win even now, without even knowing "Beyond", which is clear from your big talk about the "aces" you've got already. Afraid you can't win your little challenge without them? Pathetic.
Why are you still asking for me to accept, if you already have another participant, Quanchi? Craving for attention, much?
Sorry. I'm already developing a headache for having to read through the stuff you vomit into my general direction. Those huge bunch of texts, where nobody can figure out, what the hell you're even talking about. Not capable of utilizing multi-quotes?
And I don't actually believe you could sodomize anything, even if somebody painted you a detailed picture about how it is done. You lack the required tools. Which is true for both the metaphorical and the non-metaphorical level of that idea.
Any major force user would crush Khan with the Force. With ease.
And I have described en detail how red matter works on screen. Maybe your confirmation bias made you skip that section of my posting, much like you skip anything not matching your opinion. It's fun to watch. Really. Most entertaining. Much like a child putting his hands over its eyes, assuming that it becomes invisible. 👆You can have the debate here and now, or you can crawl back under your mom's skirts and cry yourself to sleep, because Nai doesn't want to play with you, little girl. And now bring it on or shut up, Tiffany.
I told you the director confirmed the numerical threat the federation itself would face is 4,000 plus ships and an entire new alien species. I've seen the ot and the pt and their tech isn't up to par nor can they stop the might of Trek added with the sheer numbers of a threat to the entire federation. I've stated this weeks ago.
I'd get more satisfaction of destroying an arrogant Star Wars fan boy. You even mentioned that shithole, star destroyer. That place is awful. I'd love to place your chin on a curb and stomp it debate wise.
I break down posts point by point in the last four battlezones I've done. I'd put in the time to break yours down point by point but not prior to the official debate. That's stupid. Accept already.
Kenobi didn't crush Jango with the force. Windu didn't crush Jango with the force. Saying something without evidence isn't debating. I use evidence to support my claims but you think saying the force crushes him is debating. It's called a baseless claim.
The debate can't be held now as it isn't the Trek trilogy until I see Beyond. You're trying to ignore the third film because you're desperate. Just copy and paste come summer time.
Originally posted by RobtardI stated exactly what happened. You said the vast majority when the last one I did I put up the detailed posts and the other guy walked away. My Khan/Vader battlezone had very detailed posts from me. Carver disappointed me and didn't teen rebut any of my posts. It was truly awful.
IOW: "I previously lied and am making up excuses now that I've been proven to have lied." -quanchi112Now care to answer my question that you've dodged three times?
So you'd ignore the others and the fact I've always put up detailed, structured posts backing my claims. 🙂