And the ARE worried about him. All the time... and no one does anything about it, except continue to train him, send him on mission while they doubt his abilities... To me 'going fully dark side' is just a formality. After all: once you go down the Dark Path forever will it dominate your destiny. Hence my view: Anakin went dark sometime between TPM and AOTC. The "fall" was just a formal job offer, nothing more. And exterior thing, not an interior thing. Ergo, no character arc.
Originally posted by queeqHe went full dark side and became a Sith Lord which was different than an arrogant Jedi. We saw how differently he became by the films end. There is an arc there despite your denial to acknowledge it. Just your opinion which isn't a fact.
And the ARE worried about him. All the time... and no one does anything about it, except continue to train him, send him on mission while they doubt his abilities... To me 'going fully dark side' is just a formality. After all: once you go down the Dark Path forever will it dominate your destiny. Hence my view: Anakin went dark sometime between TPM and AOTC. The "fall" was just a formal job offer, nothing more. And exterior thing, not an interior thing. Ergo, no character arc.
If there is an arc it's minute. There is not much difference between angry Anakin in the Tatooine garage and the angry Anakin that chokes Padme on Mustafar. In fact, there is NO difference.
The only difference is, as you point out, the label you give him:
young, arrogant Jedi filled with anger that kills men, women and children
Sith Lord filled with anger that kills men women and children.
So again: where is the arc you keep talking about? His behaviour is the same and behaviour in a movie shows what someone is about. Anakin's behaviour doesn't change, ergo, neither does his character.
Originally posted by queeq
If there is an arc it's minute. There is not much difference between angry Anakin in the Tatooine garage and the angry Anakin that chokes Padme on Mustafar. In fact, there is NO difference.The only difference is, as you point out, the label you give him:
young, arrogant Jedi filled with anger that kills men, women and children
Sith Lord filled with anger that kills men women and children.So again: where is the arc you keep talking about? His behaviour is the same and behaviour in a movie shows what someone is about. Anakin's behaviour doesn't change, ergo, neither does his character.
Originally posted by ares834It is easy to turn your own weird logic on you. I have explained this is all your opinion. Let it go. Your perspective isn't a fact. I have told you the differences and you'll once again repeat yourself. Let it go.
ANH Luke = Heroic character who kills bad guys.
RotJ Luke = Heroic character who kills bad guys.No arc!!!
Anakin giving fully into his darkness is just as much an arc as Luke's rejection of it.
Originally posted by AuraAngel
What are you talking about guys? There is no difference between killing a bunch of aliens who have never been nice to humans(and killed a woman for no reason) and killing the woman you love because you suspect her of betraying you. You silly geese.
Anakin didn't kill Padme though. He just strangled her while she was pregnant.
Originally posted by ares834
ANH Luke = Heroic character who kills bad guys.
RotJ Luke = Heroic character who kills bad guys.No arc!!!
Anakin giving fully into his darkness is just as much an arc as Luke's rejection of it.
Okay, that kinda slams the door. If you can't see the arc of Luke in the OT, then this debate is over. The ANH Luke is very different from the ROTJ Luke. Fighting aliens is not ALL he does. Being angry, whiney, blaming and kill is ALL Anakin does, from te beginning of AOTC till the end of ROTS.
You have NO IDEA what you're talking about.
I don't.
He thinks it's only about Anakin's killing. But it's not. It's about his character (that whines, complains, is angry and kills because of it). His behaviour and his attitude don't change. Luke's behaviour and attitude DOES change. Ergo, he has an arc.
Just putting on yellow contacts and change one's name into 'Darth' is no character change. Just a different suit. Luke's clothes change: from virgin white, to maturing brown to adult black. But... it ILLUSTRATES his inner change. from whiny kid to mature Jedi who refuses to fight his father.
Adult Anakin is always dressed in black (see how dark he is) and he is like that until the end. It too illustrates that his character doesn't change. Which it doesn't.
Originally posted by queeq
If you can't see the arc of Luke in the OT, then this debate is over.
Of course he can see it. His point is if you just look at who they're fighting and killing, then by that argument Luke also has no Arc.
Originally posted by queeq
I don't.He thinks it's only about Anakin's killing. But it's not. It's about his character (that whines, complains, is angry and kills because of it). His behaviour and his attitude don't change. Luke's behaviour and attitude DOES change. Ergo, he has an arc.
He clearly changed from AOTC to ROTS.
He was the whiny apprentice in AOTC. He wasn't so whiny in ROTS, until Palpatine starting manipulating him towards the dark side.
But the start of ROTS is clearly a matured Anakin, and one whose his own man, and not somebody's child they have to put into place. He wants to stop the mission to go save some Clones. He ignores Palpatine regarding saving Kenobi saying "His Fate will be the same as Ours."
Heck later he explains to Palpatine how The Sith are Selfish, and the Jedi Selfless.
And he again has an Arc from the matured Knight at the beginning of ROTS, to an evil Sith himself.
And this mind you is just counting AOTC and ROTS. Whereas you're looking at Luke's Arc over 3 movies.
If you count TPM and ANH, then of course Anakin has Massively changed over those 3/4 films. Massively.
I don't count TPM because child Anakin is a completely different character from adult Anakin, to such an extent that they are two completely different people. And we never learn what made adult Anakin such a power hungry murderer in AOTC, blaming everyone for the things that didn't go the way he wants (again: exactly the same behaviour he is showing on Mustafa). If there is a considerable arc, it's somewhere between these two movies.