Can Bernie Sanders really make college free?

Originally posted by Raisen
you are mostly correct; but there are some of us who broke out of that mold. a few, but i'm one of them. mostly because my family had cultural pride in work and respected this country. my white grandfather came from denmark and fought the nazis. he spent three years in stalag 3 after he was shot down. he freaking escaped that pow camp.
my mexican granmother lived dirt poor with eleven siblings. her father and mother worked night and day on the farm they lived on. the man who owned the farm was mean but they were grateful to even have a place to live and be in a country with so many opportunities.
every generation we got a little better. i got my college degree. served this country and look forward to the day my daughter does better than me.

some poor people have the will. it's about mindset. this victimhood only begets people who will not succeed.

i remember talking to a man from india here. he owned a store. i asked him why so many indians own these types of businesses. he explained the caste system and said that when one person succeeds in this country they send word back to their village...and they come over here and do the same thing. a poor village where the system of government will never let them rise. yet they thrive here. they are often confused for muslims and treated with disdain. yeah, that's racism, but look at what so many of them accomplish.

we need to recognize that there are stupid and ignorant people, but you can succeed. success is the best revenge.

Wanting people to succeed through hardwork is good but we shouldn't pretend that is all it takes to be successful either. There is also quite a bit of luck.

So work hard and if it doesn't work: socialism is the answer.

Originally posted by Newjak
I think there does need to be an understanding though that you can be the hardest worker and still not get anywhere. There are a number of outside influences that are beyond people's ability to control. Anything from economic troubles, lack of influential friends, and other things.

Wanting people to succeed through hardwork is good but we shouldn't pretend that is all it takes to be successful either. There is also quite a bit of luck.

there is luck, however isn't it better to work that extra job then bittch and complain all the time dude. do you really think there is a systemic issue with keeping certain people down? i just can't see it on a large scale. it's the complete opposite.

Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
So work hard and if it doesn't work: socialism is the answer.

everybody wants a mercedes and two story house. poor people here don't even know what it's like to be poor

Originally posted by Raisen
there is luck, however isn't it better to work that extra job then bittch and complain all the time dude. do you really think there is a systemic issue with keeping certain people down? i just can't see it on a large scale. it's the complete opposite.

There have been a number of studies that show people often will not be able to leave the economic status of what they were born into. Anything from the environment you were born in to the time period you were born in can have vast effects on your ability to move up in the world. Also working two jobs isn't always feasible or doable depending on the number of people looking for jobs, your personal situations.

There is also a certain notion that people need to essentially be work slaves to move up in the world that I just don't like. I'm actually on the weird outliers in this department myself. I have a good job, I happen to be pretty intelligent, I work hard, and I have sense for networking with people. Even with my own success I can understand look back on instances where I got extremely lucky about where I am today. I've also had rough patches where I've seen people just as skilled as me not get nearly as lucky as I was.

I currently do not believe that in America your work ethic, ability, and resourcefulness are the primary reasons for success. I would like for that to be the case but it won't happen any time soon. I also feel the pull yourself up by the bootstraps mentality is a big reason for this along with others.

Originally posted by Newjak
I actually do believe the current system is dramatically flawed in that department.

There have been a number of studies that show people often will not be able to leave the economic status of what they were born into. Anything from the environment you were born in to the time period you were born in can have vast effects on your ability to move up in the world. Also working two jobs isn't always feasible or doable depending on the number of people looking for jobs, your personal situations.

There is also a certain notion that people need to essentially be work slaves to move up in the world that I just don't like. I'm actually on the weird outliers in this department myself. I have a good job, I happen to be pretty intelligent, I work hard, and I have sense for networking with people. Even with my own success I can understand look back on instances where I got extremely lucky about where I am today. I've also had rough patches where I've seen people just as skilled as me not get nearly as lucky as I was.

I currently do not believe that in America your work ethic, ability, and resourcefulness are the primary reasons for success. I would like for that to be the case but it won't happen any time soon. I also feel the pull yourself up by the bootstraps mentality is a big reason for this along with others.

perhaps people are taught the victim mentality and perpetuate it? pass it along to the next generation? give me an example of one person who is being systemically victimized. someone who can't get a good job despite all the qualifications.
keep in mind, during times of a shiity economy lots of people suffer temporarily

Originally posted by Raisen
perhaps people are taught the victim mentality and perpetuate it? pass it along to the next generation? give me an example of one person who is being systemically victimized. someone who can't get a good job despite all the qualifications.
keep in mind, during times of a shiity economy lots of people suffer temporarily

I think we have more of a bully mentality in our country that anybody that is not successful is because they were not up to snuff or lazy. Which is false some the poorest people I've ever seen have also been some of the hardest workers I've ever known.

I will actually give you a very common scenario currently. A person born into a lower income family has to deal with second rate items and sometimes second rate schooling. This can lower ability to get into a good college which they will most likely come out of with large student loans. Growing up in a poorer family they have less connections therefore finding a good job is much harder. They may have to settle for lower wage jobs to earn income which takes away time that should be spending to find a higher class job which makes it harder to move out of that minimum wage job. Of course student loans are coming do so they also now have to spend money paying those back which is virtually impossible on lower income jobs. They have to take more hours to pay them off which means even less time to find a higher income job. Eventually they have a family they have to support and therefore they can not afford to lose time off therefore they never get a chance to move up. The scary thing is this more common than you think.

Now let's go to the reverse. A person is born into a wealthy family. They get the finest things including education which helps prepare more for college. They don't have to pay for schooling and their parents have connections to other prominent business owners. This allows that kid to get internships and get placements in their field early on.

Also as things like income inequality rise this can become more and more of a problem.

Here is a good article describing what I am talking about

http://www.economist.com/node/15908469

I even learned a good term for it. It's called social mobility.

Originally posted by Newjak
I think the problem is people don't want to realize the bad parts of a system. For instance we blame everyone on welfare for being leeches on the system while corporations rake in record profits off of these people but refuse to pay their workers of welfare living wages.

I think we have more of a bully mentality in our country that anybody that is not successful is because they were not up to snuff or lazy. Which is false some the poorest people I've ever seen have also been some of the hardest workers I've ever known.

I will actually give you a very common scenario currently. A person born into a lower income family has to deal with second rate items and sometimes second rate schooling. This can lower ability to get into a good college which they will most likely come out of with large student loans. Growing up in a poorer family they have less connections therefore finding a good job is much harder. They may have to settle for lower wage jobs to earn income which takes away time that should be spending to find a higher class job which makes it harder to move out of that minimum wage job. Of course student loans are coming do so they also now have to spend money paying those back which is virtually impossible on lower income jobs. They have to take more hours to pay them off which means even less time to find a higher income job. Eventually they have a family they have to support and therefore they can not afford to lose time off therefore they never get a chance to move up. The scary thing is this more common than you think.

Now let's go to the reverse. A person is born into a wealthy family. They get the finest things including education which helps prepare more for college. They don't have to pay for schooling and their parents have connections to other prominent business owners. This allows that kid to get internships and get placements in their field early on.

Also as things like income inequality rise this can become more and more of a problem.

Originally posted by Newjak
Here is a good article describing what I am talking about

http://www.economist.com/node/15908469

I even learned a good term for it. It's called social mobility.

Here is a cartoon that explains it.

Nothings 'free' obviously, but universities work just fine without absurd tuition fees.

Originally posted by Newjak

Wanting people to succeed through hardwork is good but we shouldn't pretend that is all it takes to be successful either. There is also quite a bit of luck.

Success leaves clues and while luck can be a factor sometimes it isn't the case all the time.

There should be a switch from the thought of hard work, it should be focused on results. Focusing on the hard work aspect is pretty childish.

I believe university can be provided for "free" but its probably not going to be like the current university system.

Lulz, that on a plate cartoon is a joke.....

All Ivory Leageu Liberal Colleges and Universities should make it so that all their teachers should not be paid and put into a for free voluntary position.

If they want to be Commies and push commie beliefs they should live it.

Or at least cut their pay down to that of the custodian and maintenance staff are paid. Every one should be paid equally.

Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
DDM, I know the us has social programs.

However we are not flat out socialist.

I'm fine with small scale socialism,

You know what? My bad. You've made that clear, before. Sorry about that.

Then why do so many Indians do well. Vietnamese. So many people who didn't even know the language and had little to no education.

Originally posted by Raisen
Then why do so many Indians do well. Vietnamese. So many people who didn't even know the language and had little to no education.

Originally posted by Raisen
Then why do so many Indians do well. Vietnamese. So many people who didn't even know the language and had little to no education.

For one thing most Indians I know in the IT field have had University training much cheaper than here in US. They also can have unsuccessful attempts as I've known quite a few who've had to leave due to the fact no company wanted to sponsor their visa.

Originally posted by dadudemon
You know what? My bad. You've made that clear, before. Sorry about that.

No worries

Originally posted by Omega Vision
Not really sure what you mean. Indians who "do well" in America invariably have some university education.

Bs. The ones with education come from a higher caste. The ones who own the stores generally have little education. Nobody even wants to address this because the truth is they succeed due to a strong culture and a willingness to sacrifice until they get desired results.

I encourage you to talk to as many Indian,Korean, Vietnamese immigrants as you can. The numbers are out there. They succeed at an extraordinary rate and the answer is strong culture and no whining

Originally posted by Raisen
Then why do so many Indians do well. Vietnamese. So many people who didn't even know the language and had little to no education.

what is brain drain.