South Dakota's New Transgender Bathroom Bill

Originally posted by Raisen
it was his choice to create what he looked like. why do people have to change because he made a choice to change himself

The only people who are being asked to change are the women who now have to share a restroom with him.

He could use a men's restroom unnoticed, but because of this bill, he is forced to use the women's restroom where he most definitely will not go unnoticed.

This bill aims to prevent men from using women's restrooms so that women do not feel uncomfortable, and it is ironically putting someone who for all intents and purposes appears to be a man in the women's restroom, making them uncomfortable.

But hey, he has the right genitals, even though no one sees those, so he belongs there, despite all of his gender markers that every one sees.

Originally posted by Bardock42
Since you like succinct answers.

Yes. Yes.

Mtf Transgender people are legit females. Answer: mtf transgender women Because: Mtf transgender people suffer insanely disproportionate violence from men, than women suffer from mtf transgender people.

Yes, identifying as the gender is enough.

This is all I needed to see.

Originally posted by Adam_PoE
This bill aims to prevent men from using women's restrooms so that women do not feel uncomfortable, and it is ironically putting someone who for all intents and purposes appears to be a man in the women's restroom, making them uncomfortable.

So again just because I'm curious: who do you feel has the more important uncomfortable-ness? Since if a trans and a legit female both feel uncomfy...well shit we have to bite the bullet and have one of these groups uncomfy. Why is it the females who are born females and aren't making a conscious choice to try to pretend they are a different gender..be the ones having the deal with being uncomfortable?

Out of some more curiosity, how many people do you feel in South Dakota are trans gender versus how many females in that state are legit females? Surely a vast population of transgenders would be needed to justify putting their feelings above the normal women, right?

Originally posted by Raisen
it was his choice to create what he looked like. why do people have to change because he made a choice to change himself

There most likely are mtf transgendered that use women's restrooms and locker rooms everyday without issue because they look enough like their identified gender people don't care.

So why is it such a big deal now all of a sudden?

Originally posted by Surtur
So again just because I'm curious: who do you feel has the more important uncomfortable-ness? Since if a trans and a legit female both feel uncomfy...well shit we have to bite the bullet and have one of these groups uncomfy. Why is it the females who are born females and aren't making a conscious choice to try to pretend they are a different gender..be the ones having the deal with being uncomfortable?

Out of some more curiosity, how many people do you feel in South Dakota are trans gender versus how many females in that state are legit females? Surely a vast population of transgenders would be needed to justify putting their feelings above the normal women, right?

The argument of course being that if the majority is uncomfortable with something a minority is trying to change to make things less uncomfortable for that minority that the majority should win.

I mean at one point the majority people in certain areas were uncomfortable with using the same restrooms as African Americans because of their skin color. But we understand that didn't matter.

This is a complex issue as I've outlined before. Who do you make uncomfortable? Are you actually infringing on people's rights to use the restroom for the gender they identify with. Is this discrimination against a group of people. I'm sure the more conservative people will immediately say no it does not discriminate against them.

Like I said personally I think this is a stupid argument. If another person getting changed in a locker room makes you uncomfortable then perhaps public restrooms and locker rooms shouldn't be for you. I mean I would have no problem with a ftm person changing in my locker room. Or a ftm if they wanted to.

About the only segregation I really condone is adult bathrooms vs bathrooms for minors.

Originally posted by Surtur
So again just because I'm curious: who do you feel has the more important uncomfortable-ness? Since if a trans and a legit female both feel uncomfy...well shit we have to bite the bullet and have one of these groups uncomfy. Why is it the females who are born females and aren't making a conscious choice to try to pretend they are a different gender..be the ones having the deal with being uncomfortable?

Out of some more curiosity, how many people do you feel in South Dakota are trans gender versus how many females in that state are legit females? Surely a vast population of transgenders would be needed to justify putting their feelings above the normal women, right?

Originally posted by Newjak
Like I said personally I think this is a stupid argument. If another person getting changed in a locker room makes you uncomfortable then perhaps public restrooms and locker rooms shouldn't be for you.

Teenage girls change in the locker room as a middle aged man comes in and starts to change too. Are they justified to feel uncomfortable?

Simple yes/no answer will suffice.

Originally posted by Surtur
So again just because I'm curious: who do you feel has the more important uncomfortable-ness? Since if a trans and a legit female both feel uncomfy...well shit we have to bite the bullet and have one of these groups uncomfy. Why is it the females who are born females and aren't making a conscious choice to try to pretend they are a different gender..be the ones having the deal with being uncomfortable?

Out of some more curiosity, how many people do you feel in South Dakota are trans gender versus how many females in that state are legit females? Surely a vast population of transgenders would be needed to justify putting their feelings above the normal women, right?

I am not addressing whose comfortability is more important.

Only that if the goal of this bill is to ensure the comfortability of people in gender segregated restrooms, it does not actually achieve that goal.

The reason being that many transgender people are indistinguishable from their cisgender counterparts.

A female-to-male transgender person appears to be a cisgender male.

If he is required to use the restroom that corresponds to his birth sex instead of his gender markers, then he will have to use a women's restroom.

This puts someone who appears to be a cisgender man in a restroom with women.

They will not know that he was born female, and will assume that he is a cisgender man in the women's restroom, making them uncomfortable.

If he was free to continue to use the men's restroom, there would be no problems.

He appears to be a cisgender man, so he would go completely unnoticed in a men's restroom.

Does this person look like he belongs in a women's bathroom? Yes or no? It is as simple as that.

Originally posted by Newjak
Like I said personally I think this is a stupid argument. If another person getting changed in a locker room makes you uncomfortable then perhaps public restrooms and locker rooms shouldn't be for you.

So now wait, why is it you say this..but it can't be said to trans genders? If getting gawked at in a public locker room makes you uncomfortable, then why aren't you telling those people not to use it?

This guy is a total douche bag, he's a guy I don't care what he says he is.

He is taking pics in a womans restroom. The women should just beat his ass.

**** him

Originally posted by Stigma
Hypothetical situation:

Teenage girls change in the locker room as a middle aged man comes in and starts to change too. Are they justified to feel uncomfortable?

Simple yes/no asnwer will suffice.

Instead I will simply ask if the genders were reversed or it was a middle aged man and a teenage boy would you feel the same way on the subject?

Also you conveniently ignore the part in my post where I said I would most likely support adult bathrooms and ones for minors.

Originally posted by Surtur
So now wait, why is it you say this..but it can't be said to trans genders? If getting gawked at in a public locker room makes you uncomfortable, then why aren't you telling those people not to use it?

Especially considering how closely some of the transgendered people look to the gender they identify as. I mean if the goal is to make things less awkward for people this law doesn't really seem change that considering it can still make things awkward for people on both sides. Just look at the picture above of the one ftm person. Tell me the women in that restroom don't look awkward at all.

Originally posted by Adam_PoE
I am not addressing whose comfortability is more important.

Only that if the goal of this bill is to ensure the comfortability of people in gender segregated restrooms, it does not actually achieve that goal.

The reason being that many transgender people are indistinguishable from their cisgender counterparts.

A female-to-male transgender person appears to be a cisgender male.

If he is required to use the restroom that corresponds to his birth sex instead of his gender markers, then he will have to use a women's restroom.

This puts someone who appears to be a cisgender man in a restroom with women.

They will not know that he was born female, and will assume that he is a cisgender man in the women's restroom, making them uncomfortable.

If he was free to continue to use the men's restroom, there would be no problems.

He appears to be a cisgender man, so he would go completely unnoticed in a men's restroom.

Does this person look like he belongs in a women's bathroom? Yes or no? It is as simple as that.

He is free to use the mens restroom, he is a man, he looks like a man, are there police at mens bathrooms standing guard with a picture of them on their phone identifying him as a transgender and telling him he can't go in?

Thank about what you are saying before you actually try and lie through the truth.

Originally posted by Newjak
Did I say it only pertains to non transgendered people. Like I said if people were just mature about the situation this shouldn't be a problem for anyone. Which is easier said then done. The main issue for me in this topic stems from does this discriminate against a group of people. Which there is a decent case for that imo.

Especially considering how closely some of the transgendered people look to the gender they identify as. I mean if the goal is to make things less awkward for people this law doesn't really seem change that considering it can still make things awkward for people on both sides. Just look at the picture above of the one ftm person. Tell me the women in that restroom don't look awkward at all.

I wouldn't really call a woman immature if she isn't comfortable with some dude dressed like a chick gawking at her in the bathroom.

As for the pic you brought up... Someone said that is a womans bathroom, and that female in the background sure as shit looks uncomfortable with that creepy looking dude there. Or is the lady supposed to be a dude? Since yeah, some of these guys do look female, but some don't. Bruce Jenner to me looks like a drag queen, not a female.

Originally posted by Newjak
Loaded questions do not deserve yes no questions..

Instead I will simply ask if the genders were reversed or it was a middle aged man and a teenage boy would you feel the same way on the subject?

Seriously? Try your own medicine then:

Originally posted by Newjak
Loaded questions do not deserve yes no questions..

Originally posted by Newjak
Also you conveniently ignore the part in my post where I said I would most likely support adult bathrooms and ones for minors.

Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
He is free to use the mens restroom, he is a man, he looks like a man, are there police at mens bathrooms standing guard with a picture of them on their phone identifying him as a transgender and telling him he can't go in?

Thank about what you are saying before you actually try and lie through the truth.

The man in this picture is a female-to-male transgender person.

This bill would require him to use the women's restroom because he was born female.

That is the problem we are discussing here.

It is not that he could not ignore the law and continue to use the men's restroom.

It is that it would be illegal for him to do so.

So he now must choose between following the law, or putting himself and the women in the restroom in an uncomfortable situation.

Its a pretty easy decision. And this guy is making a mountain out of a mole hill and doing it in a creepy way. I doubt he is really in transition, tbh. Look at him, he's most likely a liar and a fraud.

DP

Originally posted by Surtur
I wouldn't really call a woman immature if she isn't comfortable with some dude dressed like a chick gawking at her in the bathroom.

As for the pic you brought up... Someone said that is a womans bathroom, and that female in the background sure as shit looks uncomfortable with that creepy looking dude there. Or is the lady supposed to be a dude?

And point I'm making is people should be more mature about restroom and lockers in general. They really shouldn't be this silly place. They should be for getting dressed, showered, and leaving and that is all people should really care about them.

Also gawking can happen in any shower. Men can gawk at other men and women can gawk at other women.

As for the pic. The point is that is a biological female that clearly looks like a man but due to the law they need to go into that restroom. Hence the law doesn't really get rid of the awkwardness it just creates new ones.

Originally posted by Stigma
Seriously? Try your own medicine then:

Good. Change teenage girls to middle aged women. Same situation.

I don't think most men would try to pull shenanigans like that, but I think there are a lot of creeps out there who would try to pull some shit.

Also what about high schools? Teenage boys tend to be d-bags. Would you put it past some horny teen to go "oh tee hee I identify as a female" so he can go see him some titties?

I would also ask you how you feel a legit trans gender teen would be treated by his peers, especially if he is seen dressing as a girl and going into the girls bathroom?

moved

Originally posted by Surtur
I don't think most men would try to pull shenanigans like that, but I think there are a lot of creeps out there who would try to pull some shit.

Also what about high schools? Teenage boys tend to be d-bags. Would you put it past some horny teen to go "oh tee hee I identify as a female" so he can go see him some titties?

I would also ask you how you feel a legit trans gender teen would be treated by his peers, especially if he is seen dressing as a girl and going into the girls bathroom?

The rest should be if we raised people to treat other people with respect it shouldn't be a problem if the transgender mtf kid went into the girl's restrooms.