Kurse vs. General Zod

Started by Robtard17 pages
Originally posted by Nibedicus
You're just trolling right, or is this a serious argument?

Asking the question is just that. Kurse or the science/magic that made him was to turn him into an anti-Asgardian living weapon.

Factor in that we have several instances where it's portrayed to us that moving Mjolnir isn't a matter of strength, it makes sense that Kurse's flyswat might not have just been brute strength (even though Kurse is very strong)

You even made a similar point with Elven weapons being made to counter Asgardians and their gear. So why is one sensible and the other not?

Originally posted by Robtard
Asking the question is just that. Kurse or the science/magic that made him was to turn him into an anti-Asgardian living weapon.

Factor in that we have several instances where it's portrayed to us that moving Mjolnir isn't a matter of strength, it makes sense that Kurse's flyswat might not have just been brute strength.

There is no indication that Kurse was designed specifically to fight Asgardians and negate their tech/magic. At least none that I can remember. Isn't the Kurse transformation some ancient DElven ritual? You need to provide proof that they were made specifically for this purpose.

He didn't "move" Mjolnir, he stopped/deflected it's forward movement. Something Hulk was unable to do.

Onus is on you to prove that anything outside strength was involved.

When did I say that the Elven weapons were made to counter Asgardians and their gear? I don't seem to recall saying that. What i said was weapons were made to pierce Asgardian durability because that was what bladed weapons are supposed to do.

It's proof enough that Asgardian/DElf bladed weapons were designed to pierce Asgardian/DElf level durability, otherwise, they wouldn't be really using it against Asgardians/DElves who has said durability. I mean that's common sense there.

I really find it hard to believe that you're being serious here.

Going to have to watch the scene where he's created again, iirc, Malekith mentions something along those lines. I'll get back to you either way.

Algrim was the last and supposedbly most powerful of the Kursed. As for weapons, lazer guns and black hole grenades. The asgardians were the ones carrying swords I believe. Asgardian blades and the like are apparently way more. Durable and apparently sharper than regular earth metal. Been shown already.

Regardless, Zod has no blades just fists so not sure how hes gonna get past that blunt fforce durabilty.

Originally posted by FrothByte
He was skewered by Loki (who's quite strong himself) using an elven blade. Considering that Kurse is dark elf himself, it makes sense that their weapons can penetrate them.

Sorry I missed this last page.

If we're arguing that Asgardian and DE weapons are designed to harm Asgardians/DE, which is fine and it makes sense, not sure how that plays out when he was in turn unfazed by Mjolnir.

If a far inferior blade could pierce him, Mjolnir being one of the most powerful weapons should have done something, using that logic.

At no point any where in the movie was Kurse started to be the ultimate nullifier against all things Asgardian.

We can just end that line of reasoning here and now.

He was never really hit by the hammer except once when he was fleeing and already jumping off a cliff.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
What leads you to believe Zod is stronger than Kurse?

Even if so (I disagree), that still doesn't for Kurse being seemingly more durable

How is Kurse more durable? He was pierced by swords and spears and could not survive a black hole grenade. Something that Zod did survive and Zod was never pierced by anything.

Originally posted by Robtard
Sorry I missed this last page.

If we're arguing that Asgardian and DE weapons are designed to harm Asgardians/DE, which is fine and it makes sense, not sure how that plays out when he was in turn unfazed by Mjolnir.

If a far inferior blade could pierce him, Mjolnir being one of the most powerful weapons should have done something, using that logic.

Did he ever get hit directly by Mjolnir?

Yes only once when he was not trying to deflect it.

Didn't Lois also survive that "blackhole"?

I just rewatched the fight, doesn't seem like Kurse ever really gets hit by Mjolnir.

Alright then, must have misremembered, been some time since I watched it and it's one of my least favorite MCU flicks.

Zod has the strength speed and durability for a drawn out ugly fight that he will win the majority.

Originally posted by Nibedicus
Depictions of power of said punches, dramatic effect to give the scene more "motion".

LOL..... dramatic effect... what a clown.

Zod takes this, MCU fanboys should go and cry to Marvel Studios, they are doing a really bad job potrating Thor as a powerhouse.

Also, wasnt Kurse killed by a little blackhole grenade? Superman tanked a bigger one without problems and Zod was pretty much at his level.

Seriously MCU supporters make me laugh, MCU has yet to have a fight on the scale of Superman VS Zod, they are fleas compared to the Kryptonians.

Originally posted by FrothByte
So are you telling us that because of fancy shockwaves you want us to believe they punched in super speed even though the punches were in fact shown to be delivered at normal speed?

Seems that's how Snyder was portraying punches at super speeds. I mean what else were the shockwaves and after lines supposed to be portraying?

Also I still regard hitting while travelling at superhuman speeds as superhuman fast punches. Super reactions would definitely be required to fight at those speeds. Let's not forget how fast Zod was spinning Kal around. That was all super speed combat IMO

Originally posted by TH3_V01D
LOL..... dramatic effect... what a clown.

Zod takes this, MCU fanboys should go and cry to Marvel Studios, they are doing a really bad job potrating Thor as a powerhouse.

Also, wasnt Kurse killed by a little blackhole grenade? Superman tanked a bigger one without problems and Zod was pretty much at his level.

Seriously MCU supporters make me laugh, MCU has yet to have a fight on the scale of Superman VS Zod, they are fleas compared to the Kryptonians.

The butt-hurt is strong with this one.

Originally posted by Arachnid1
The absence of proof means the absence of feats. That puts the burden of proof on you, but that's impossible since you've already noted that those feats are absent. I'm definitely not trying to undersell Kurse. He's a beast, and likely one of the tops in the MCU so far. He just hasn't shown the feats to be considered above a Kyptonian.

Hulk wasn't holding up oil rigs or tackling over skyscrapers. His hits with the HB did make shockwaves, but nowhere near the level of shockwaves Supes and Zod colliding made. Thor also was not shown to be in the same ballpark strength wise. He's strong, but not enough to give Hulk a run in that stat. He won that fight due to significantly greater skill and superior fighting speed.

You're also trying to use A > B > C logic, which isn't valid here. Hulks strength feats don't translate to Thor, and they definitely don't translate to Kurse. That, combined with Kurses lack of feats, is kind of a death sentence when put into a fight with someone who does have feats.

Yeah, its true enough that Kurse has insane damage soak. He's kind of like Ajax in that regard. I can agree he doesn't feel pain, or at least doesn't care about.

It's funny how you view a scene one way, and I take the scene the totally opposite. Don't get me wrong, I see your point, but I just don't think it's the most logical one. For instance, you claim from Zod and superman were more impressive, I feel the opposite. Zod's and Superman's shockwaves were done with the aid of flight i.e. speed. Thus aiding in the creation of, and power of said shockwaves. Hulk were done without the aid of speed like that, and thus more impressive he was able to create them.

One of Thor's hammer throws literally send Hulk flying, Kurse either no sold it or simply swatted it away as if it was a toy. Again, in Hulk we're talking about somebody as stronger or stronger than Clark or Zod, and Thor was holding his own. Against Kurse he was a minor annoyance who was treated like a feeb. It's the marked disparity between the showings that makes it all the more impressive, and where the heart of the extrapolation lies. Thor has a wide array of feats throughout his appearances... Frost Giants, Huge Leviathan etc etc. Yet this same person, was treated like an utter feeb. That is more impressive than anything Zod did in the entire movie.

It goes like this

Kurse treating Thor like such a feeb >>>> Than anything Zod did in the entire movie.

You're claiming the feats lie with Zod, and that couldn't be further from the truth. IN fact, it's the exact opposite. Zod has ZERO impressive combat feats. Let's examine:

1. Zod losses convincingly to Jor-El
2. Gets bull rushed by superman and is unable to counter anything. He's head is beaten so bad without a counter, that his protective mask is destroyed and he has to BFR himself
3. Again losses to superman in a straight up fight

To even pretend Zod has the better combat feats is being disingenuous friend, and looking at the above, I think you'd tend to agree. It's not that losing to superman is a low showing per se, but when Kurse is casually and easily dealing with a super powered being. A being with more powers than superman by a large degree. Yet was unable to do a thing to Kurse. The combat feats are squarely in Kurse favor. Let's take it further

1. Durability - Kurse and easily so
2. Skill - Kurse and easily so
3. Speed - Zod, with flight easily so, without it, he's simply faster
4. Damage Soak - Kurse, and again easily so
5. Strength - Hard to say, but neither one would have a decisive edge imo
6. Reactions - Stalemate, possibly a very slight edge to Zod based on his speed.

All in all, Kurse simply is better at more combat related variables imo.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Seems that's how Snyder was portraying punches at super speeds. I mean what else were the shockwaves and after lines supposed to be portraying?

Also I still regard hitting while travelling at superhuman speeds as superhuman fast punches. Super reactions would definitely be required to fight at those speeds. Let's not forget how fast Zod was spinning Kal around. That was all super speed combat IMO

I'm confused here. It was specifically shown in the fights that their punches were done at normal speed. Again, this is proven by all the background cars and flames moving at normal speed and the punches also moving at normal speed. Yet you want us to completely disregard this and use shockwaves (that are probably more from impact than speed) as proof of superspeed?

Sorry dude, I'm judging the speed of something based on its, you know, speed. In this fight, it was clear that they were throwing punches at normal speed.

If I was sitting in a jet traveling at mach 1 and I punched the person beside me, does that mean I'm capable of superspeed punches? Because that's basically what Superman and Zod were doing. It's the theory of relativity.

Originally posted by TH3_V01D
LOL..... dramatic effect... what a clown.

Zod takes this, MCU fanboys should go and cry to Marvel Studios, they are doing a really bad job potrating Thor as a powerhouse.

Also, wasnt Kurse killed by a little blackhole grenade? Superman tanked a bigger one without problems and Zod was pretty much at his level.

Seriously MCU supporters make me laugh, MCU has yet to have a fight on the scale of Superman VS Zod, they are fleas compared to the Kryptonians.

Yeah okay bud, get back to be when Zod doesn't lose every damn fight he was in. You have your head so far up DC's bunghole you can't think coherently. Zod losses again, just like he did throughout the entire MOS movie.

Originally posted by FrothByte
I'm confused here. It was specifically shown in the fights that their punches were done at normal speed. Again, this is proven by all the background cars and flames moving at normal speed and the punches also moving at normal speed. Yet you want us to completely disregard this and use shockwaves (that are probably more from impact than speed) as proof of superspeed?

Sorry dude, I'm judging the speed of something based on its, you know, speed. In this fight, it was clear that they were throwing punches at normal speed.

If I was sitting in a jet traveling at mach 1 and I punched the person beside me, does that mean I'm capable of superspeed punches? Because that's basically what Superman and Zod were doing. It's the theory of relativity.

I'm with you for the most part in this argument, though I would back away from those punches being Human level. I think it's kind of silly to assert that those punches were done at human level speed. I agree they weren't done as fast as they were traveling. But they were faster than human level as well. It's one of these things I've argued before. The director wants the audience to see what the heck is going on. IF they had them fight as fast they were traveling, we wouldn't be able to see a thing. Now I'm not going extreme and saying the director believes they can throw punches as fast as they are flying. However, I wouldn't use the background or people around them to say they were punching at human level speed. That also doesn't make sense. I'd choose some place in the middle to low-middle as to how fast they were punching compared to flying. Again though, it's not enough punching speed that Kurse wouldn't be able to react to, and that is the bottom line here.