Originally posted by Silent Master
Throwing punches while flying is hardly fighting at superspeed. I mean Iron-man can do that and he doesn't even have peak human reflexes/reactions.
I've not seen IM throwing punches at that level of speed. You could even see the sonic boom with the punches IIRC, meaning their punches were being thrown at super speed.
Plus they were obviously reacting to each other just fine at those speeds.
Originally posted by Silent Master
They were both flying at roughly the same speed, so them reacting to each other isn't that impressive and their ability to throw punches while flying around Mach 1 is more a strength feat than superspeed reactions.
I think you're underselling how difficult it would be to fight at those speeds tbh. Especially when they were bull rushing each other, and flying at speeds well beyond the likes of Iron Man have ever fought at.
Originally posted by Silent MasterIf they had true superspeed reactions, how come they never used it while grounded?
Well Superman did against machine gun fire and against Faora.
Ok:
?v=HnAw3E_mLh8
Zod seems to run at superspeed to bullrush Kal @ 1:30
Then their punches and blocks seem to be portrayed at superspeed in their H2H from 1:34-1:36 looking like they're leaving sonic boom discharges.
Then @ 1:37 Superman dodges Zod's punch which leaves lines depicting super speed.
Then again Zod looks like he runs superfast towards Supes at 1:50 and gives him 2 punches which both seem to be depicted as super speed punches.
I'll tell you straight, these depictions of combat at super speeds is a hell of a lot better than anything we ever get in SW, and that was all before Zod learned to fly mind you.
Then after the flying starts there's the bullrushing punches which at 3:04. Including Zod spinning Superman around at superspeed @ 3:35. This is all during combat. Never seen Iron Man even move at those speeds, let alone fight and punch e.t.c.
There's also the Faora fight which I'll post if further proof is needed of Superman fighting/reacting at super speed.
Originally posted by Placidity
The problem with this is the difference between peak human and average human is actually not that large in the scheme of things.For example, the fastest sprinter is "only" about 30% quicker than your average healthy man.
When someone like Faora moves at super-speed, she is going many orders of magnitude faster than Zod. If they have similar physiology, even if Faora specifically trained for speed, she still shouldn't be that much faster than a fellow kryptonian. And keep in mind, I really doubt Zod is your average Joe Kryptonian.
While I'm at it, I'd like to point out the false but common idea that super-speed runners aren't necessarily fast fighters as well. One false analogy is Usain Bolt is not necessarily a fast fighter even though he can run fast. As per above, Usain is only 30% faster. When we are talking about a super-speedster we are often talking about someone hundreds of times faster (speed of sound, speed of light etc). Running requires coordinated movement of arms and legs, if the speedster can move at the speed of sound, he sure as hell can "fight" fast, at least compared to anyone that is not close to his running speed.
This post made LITERALLY no sense what so ever. In fact, the last paragraph was so all over the place, I don't even know the point you were trying to make.
Take a stance and back it up, don't try and claim you're contradicting my post, and then make no sense what so ever. What exactly are you claiming here?
The proof is in the pudding bud. Zod DIDN'T fight at that speed because he couldn't. Even if could, then he would have in the NUMEROUS opportunities he had to showcase it. He failed to do so, and in fact, was beat directly by speed and had no answer. If he was able to answer Superman's speed in their initial encounter, you'd like he would have, instead of getting his ass beat and mask destroyed.
As I said you are so all over the place I don't understand your point. You're acting like 30% isn't a significance difference, when in fact 30% could be exponentially superior when scaling up. I simply don't get this line of logic that 30% isn't significant, it most certainly is. Even to use your 30% and humans analogy... If Kryptonians can also vary by 30%, just like humans, than that would explain why she could and he couldn't. You in essence proved what I was saying.
Lastly, your theory that Bolt would be a super fast fighter is completely and totally false. So false, that I can tell you've never watched a combat sport in your life. Bolt is not even close to the fast accelerator in sprinting. In fact, he's average or slightly below average. What separates him is his top end speed and how long he can maintain said speed. That does he literally ZERO good in a cage. The speed that matters in a cage are fast twitch muscle fibers, reaction speed and agility... not top end speed. To even equate moving your arms really fast running, and then turn around and claim he can punch really fast is downright hilarious. I mean literally hilarious. They are usually TOTALLY different muscles for each activity.
I can promise you, that 99% of professional boxers can hit the speed bag faster than Bolt could. In fact, the figure is likely higher. They aren't using the same muscles, nor the same technique, nor does running require the hand eye coordination as fighting. They aren't close to the same. We saw this time and time again with pride. They would match up HUGE guys against small guys to show technique and training matters. They've had World Strongest Man winners compete in MMA and get absolutely embarrassed. Yet, they are likely 30% or more stronger than the average fighter, yet technique wins out. Bolt would not be a fast fighter nor would he move his hands any faster than boxer, in fact, he'd be slower.
I tried to address what you said, but to be honest, I can hardly make out what you were saying.
Originally posted by Darth Thor
Ok:?v=HnAw3E_mLh8
Zod seems to run at superspeed to bullrush Kal @ 1:30
Then their punches and blocks seem to be portrayed at superspeed in their H2H from 1:34-1:36 looking like they're leaving sonic boom discharges.
Then @ 1:37 Superman dodges Zod's punch which leaves lines depicting super speed.
Then again Zod looks like he runs superfast towards Supes at 1:50 and gives him 2 punches which both seem to be depicted as super speed punches.
I'll tell you straight, these depictions of combat at super speeds is a hell of a lot better than anything we ever get in SW, and that was all before Zod learned to fly mind you.
Then after the flying starts there's the bullrushing punches which at 3:04. Including Zod spinning Superman around at superspeed @ 3:35. This is all during combat. Never seen Iron Man even move at those speeds, let alone fight and punch e.t.c.
There's also the Faora fight which I'll post if further proof is needed of Superman fighting/reacting at super speed.
I don't think their punches were creating sonicbooms as much as they were creating shockwaves from the impact. Same way Hulk vs. Hulkbuster and Thor vs. Malekith were creating shockwaves.
But even if they were sonicbooms, they still weren't being done at super speed. The punches were thrown at regular speed, nothing super fast or anything. I mean, just look at them. Heck I've seen boxers throw faster punches. And it wasn't done in slow mo either. You can tell by the background: The cars are still falling at the same rate, the flames are still moving at normal rate, so we know it wasn't simply slowed down.
So yeah, all their punches were definitely thrown at regular speed, regardless of special sonicboom effects. I also don't see how Zod spinning Superman around looks like superspeed. I've seen figure skaters spin faster than that.
Okay, but that is an irrelevant point. Nobody is claiming there isn't a difference between humans and super enhanced characters. The people we are comparing are both super powered being. One fought using super speed, the other did not. Clearly there is a difference in speed between the two. Whether be that she's just naturally faster, whether it's her training specifically for speed, it all is irrelevant why... she was simply faster than Zod for whatever reason you want to pick. The point is, he was essentially proving the point in claiming some humans are faster than others... whether it be 30% or 10%... the point I was making is, we aren't all born with the same ability. Even though we are almost identical physiologically speaking, there are still significant differences in performance from one person to the next. Clearly Kryptonians are very much the same way. Which again, would explain some talking.. some not, some using super speed some not, some seemingly being more intelligent than others... etc etc. It couldn't be made more clear than Kryptonians, like us, are almost different from person to person. Which again, is the point. Faora had super fighting speed, Zod did not.
Originally posted by FrothByteBut even if they were sonicbooms, they still weren't being done at super speed. The punches were thrown at regular speed, nothing super fast or anything. I mean, just look at them. Heck I've seen boxers throw faster punches. And it wasn't done in slow mo either. You can tell by the background: The cars are still falling at the same rate, the flames are still moving at normal rate, so we know it wasn't simply slowed down.
I mentioned that punch of Zod which Superman dodged at 1:37 left lines. Does that happen when a normal human punches? No. Which is why I'm saying the punches were "portrayed" to be at superhuman speed. Whether they actually speed up their punches in the cutting room is a different thing altogether.
For instance, in the Matrix you get slow movements and slow hits. Yet everything around them is moving in slow motion. So what does that mean? It means they won't show them moving at superhuman speeds, but they are portraying it to be at superhuman speeds.
Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
she was simply faster than Zod for whatever reason you want to pick.
Was she faster than Superman?
Originally posted by FrothByte
I don't think their punches were creating sonicbooms as much as they were creating shockwaves from the impact. Same way Hulk vs. Hulkbuster and Thor vs. Malekith were creating shockwaves.But even if they were sonicbooms, they still weren't being done at super speed. The punches were thrown at regular speed, nothing super fast or anything. I mean, just look at them. Heck I've seen boxers throw faster punches. And it wasn't done in slow mo either. You can tell by the background: The cars are still falling at the same rate, the flames are still moving at normal rate, so we know it wasn't simply slowed down.
So yeah, all their punches were definitely thrown at regular speed, regardless of special sonicboom effects. I also don't see how Zod spinning Superman around looks like superspeed. I've seen figure skaters spin faster than that.
And you can tell from the things happening in the background that we are seeing the fight normally and not in "bullet-time".
Originally posted by Darth Thor
I mentioned that punch of Zod which Superman dodged at 1:37 left lines. Does that happen when a normal human punches? No. Which is why I'm saying the punches were "portrayed" to be at superhuman speed. Whether they actually speed up their punches in the cutting room is a different thing altogether.For instance, in the Matrix you get slow movements and slow hits. Yet everything around them is moving in slow motion. So what does that mean? It means they won't show them moving at superhuman speeds, but they are portraying it to be at superhuman speeds.
Was she faster than Superman?
Of course, we saw that displayed in there fight. She literally clowned him with her speed. Sure he could fly, and ultimately used that advantage over her, but in straight h2h combat with no flying... she was clearly and decisively faster.
Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Of course, we saw that displayed in there fight. She literally clowned him with her speed. Sure he could fly, and ultimately used that advantage over her, but in straight h2h combat with no flying... she was clearly and decisively faster.
Was she?
Because at over here at 0:50:
?v=khKaUE9KV3A
Supes is fighting off both Nam-Ek and Faora simultaneously in H2H, and he blocks Faora's kick and puts her to the floor.
So did Supes suddenly become faster, Faora suddenly become slower? Unlikely. More likely Superman was just holding back in the 1 v 1, and getting caught off guard by Faora's ferocity.
Why are you guys arguing about Zods speed? Any Kyrptonian is faster than Kurse. This is a fact.
They are also all significantly stronger and likely more durable. Kurse wasn't tackling over skyscrapers or shown to be strong enough to hold up oil rigs, and he hasn't shown the durability to stand up to someone who could.
This is a flat out stomp for Zod. He ragdolls the shit out of Kurse until he's dust.
Originally posted by ShadowFyre
Im confused? Its pretty obvious that Faora, for whatever reasons is the fastest out of entire MOS and easily most skilled h2h in movie. Zod is obviously faster than a human but him and mos are not faora fast.
Are you saying she's faster by Krpytonian standards, or that's she's just on a different level of superhuman speed?