Originally posted by h1a8Agreed. It's funny how people don't try to argue similarly for people like Spidey. We're able to see him fighting, yet this forum actually takes his lightning dodges and bullet time instances into account.
It's funny how Superman, Surfer, Gladiator, etc sometimes doesn't use their speed in combat.It's a possibility that Ozy was using his super speed. He easily blocked their attacks passively. The action was in reference to the viewer. That means the speed in which we see them fight is possibly not the actual speed.
Ozy was holding back as well. He didn't want to kill them. He generated insane leg speed when he kicked Rorschach over 10 feet away.
Yet when it comes to Ozy, some people don't take his high end feats into consideration. It's completely thrown out. Instead, they prefer to use feats of him in the final fight when he's clearly not even trying and swatting away their hits as easily as you would a five year old while sustaining a monologue. Does that seem like fair debating tactics to anyone? Catching bullets is also a lot more impressive than dodging. This should suggest that his movement and reaction times are significantly above people like Cap or WS. He saw the bullet and was able to calculate it's trajectory to intercept it at the perfect time all after the bullet was shot. Ozy would see every punch they throw coming at a fraction of the speed he's able to put out and casually react with plenty of time to spare like he did with NO and Rorschach. I doubt they'd even score a hit.
Originally posted by Silent MasterNot theoretical. His bullet catch feat clearly supports this. The burden of proof is on you. You need to prove that WS can match that same speed, and we both know you cant.
Too bad he has never once been shown to fight at the speed you think he should theoretically be able to.
Originally posted by Silent MasterIf he can catch a bullet, he can catch a punch. This is common sense. Once again, burden of proof is on you. Show me just one indisputable WS bullet time feat, and you can claim he's as fast as Ozy.
If it isn't theoretical, post examples of him fighting at bullet-time speeds.
Originally posted by Silent MasterIs this really how you people have been debating these past hundred pages? Covering your ears and yelling at the top of your lungs? You know thats basically what you're doing when you ignore his bullet catch while requesting feats of bullet time right? Ozy's speed is supported by feats, but obviously, nothing short of a mod ruling will get you guys to see common sense. This thread is a lost cause.
IOW, you can't provide any proof that he can fight at bullet-tome speed.
Originally posted by h1a8
It's funny how Superman, Surfer, Gladiator, etc sometimes doesn't use their speed in combat.It's a possibility that Ozy was using his super speed. He easily blocked their attacks passively. The action was in reference to the viewer. That means the speed in which we see them fight is possibly not the actual speed.
Ozy was holding back as well. He didn't want to kill them. He generated insane leg speed when he kicked Rorschach over 10 feet away.
So he was holding back against Comedian because he also didn't want to kill him?
Originally posted by Arachnid1
Agreed. It's funny how people don't try to argue similarly for people like Spidey. We're able to see him fighting, yet this forum actually takes his lightning dodges and bullet time instances into account.Yet when it comes to Ozy, some people don't take his high end feats into consideration. It's completely thrown out. Instead, they prefer to use feats of him in the final fight when he's clearly not even trying and swatting away their hits as easily as you would a five year old while sustaining a monologue. Does that seem like fair debating tactics to anyone? Catching bullets is also a lot more impressive than dodging. This should suggest that his movement and reaction times are significantly above people like Cap or WS. He saw the bullet and was able to calculate it's trajectory to intercept it at the perfect time all after the bullet was shot. Ozy would see every punch they throw coming at a fraction of the speed he's able to put out and casually react with plenty of time to spare like he did with NO and Rorschach. I doubt they'd even score a hit.
Because Spidey actually does it more than once. Does it often enough AND DURING COMBAT that there's no doubt that he can move that fast.
Ozy does it that one time and it wasn't even during combat. He doesn't have enough speed feats to declare that he has super speed.
Originally posted by Arachnid1
If he can catch a bullet, he can catch a punch. This is common sense. Once again, burden of proof is on you. Show me just one indisputable WS bullet time feat, and you can claim he's as fast as Ozy.
I have no doubt that Ozy is fast enough to block a few hits from WS. Question is:
1. Can he continuously block all of WS's hits
and
2. Is he even strong enough to block hits from someone as strong as WS?
Originally posted by FrothByteSpidey has 6 movies out there featuring his character. Ozy didn't have all that much screen time despite the fact that it was a 3 hour movie. One speed feat for his final and only confrontation with the heroes isn't bad. The feat should count.
Because Spidey actually does it more than once. Does it often enough AND DURING COMBAT that there's no doubt that he can move that fast.Ozy does it that one time and it wasn't even during combat. He doesn't have enough speed feats to declare that he has super speed.
Originally posted by FrothByte1. Thanks for actually trying to debate, unlike most people in this thread.
I have no doubt that Ozy is fast enough to block a few hits from WS. Question is:1. Can he continuously block all of WS's hits
and
2. Is he even strong enough to block hits from someone as strong as WS?
2. Even if I compromise and say he cant move that fast during fighting (although I don't believe that, for the sake of argument lets go with it), even if his body casually functions at a fraction of that speed, it still makes him faster at hand to hand than WS by a large margin. His reaction also wouldn't really change. If he can perceive a bullet, he can perceive WS punches.
His armor is bullet proof. The bullet didn't go through the glove of his hand, and there was no blood. He also willingly took a sustained barrage of punches from a man who was breaking bone with his punches and sending people soaring with the hits without drawing blood, so he could take a beating. Those combined makes me think he could take a few hits and keep coming, and I don't think many if any hits would connect. Also dodging is a whole lot easier than catching, so he could just move out of the way.
Also, only WS's arm seems all that impressive. It's stupid strong, but the rest of his body doesn't seem amazing. Cap broke his other arm easily enough in their final battle (granted he is Cap), so I definitely think Ozy could damage him with a good amount of hits, and Ozy would be landing waaay more hits than WS. Just my 2 cents on how I see a fight between them going. Strength is really the only stat WS has Ozy in, and thats not enough.
Some quick points....
1. WS's whole body is enhanced. He sent a guy flying like over 30 feet with a kick from a non cybernetic leg.
2. I actually welcome OZY's bullet catching feat into this fight.
From what we seen with an screen showing, OZY will definitely dodge 1 or 2 blows from WS at high speeds, but be left open and vulnerable when recovering from using such speed.
If you are against him being vulnerable after using this type of speed then you would have to prove that he does not need to recover after using such speed. Because from what we've seen he will be laying on the floor after such a speed attempt.
3. WS speed is nothing to laugh at either. He was quick enough to react to blocking bullets multiple times not just one rare instance.
And the closer ranges from faster traveling bullets. So their speeds aren't that far off regardless of how people try to spin it.
One is definitely faster than the other but not like a flea vs. an elephant type of difference. So it will not be a huge deciding factor in this fight like some are trying to say.
Originally posted by Inhuman
Some quick points....1. WS's whole body is enhanced. He sent a guy flying like over 30 feet with a kick from a non cybernetic leg.
2. I actually welcome OZY's bullet catching feat into this fight.
From what we seen with an screen showing, OZY will definitely dodge 1 or 2 blows from WS at high speeds, but be left open and vulnerable when recovering from using such speed.
If you are against him being vulnerable after using this type of speed then you would have to prove that he does not need to recover after using such speed. Because from what we've seen he will be laying on the floor after such a speed attempt.3. WS speed is nothing to laugh at either. He was quick enough to react to blocking bullets multiple times not just one rare instance.
And the closer ranges from faster traveling bullets. So their speeds aren't that far off regardless of how people try to spin it.
One is definitely faster than the other but not like a flea vs. an elephant type of difference. So it will not be a huge deciding factor in this fight like some are trying to say.
WS moves MANY TIMES SLOWER than a bullet. Ozy would perceive him almost at a standstill. Ozy wouldn't need to move anywhere near as fast as he did when he caught the bullet. He will casually block, parry, and counter any WS attack.
WS never reacted to bullets. He has no bullet timing feats. He aim dodged, that's it.
Ozy is insanely strong. He casually leaped 30 ft through the air and crushed a steel laser gun with his foot. He threw Rorschach clear across the room (more than 30 feet away).
He also have superhuman senses. He casually blocked many attacks he never saw coming from behind. He was blocking both their attacks simultaneously. His skill is unparalleled. He schooled two peak humans like little children.
Originally posted by h1a8
WS moves MANY TIMES SLOWER than a bullet. Ozy would perceive him almost at a standstill. Ozy wouldn't need to move anywhere near as fast as he did when he caught the bullet. He will casually block, parry, and counter any WS attack.WS never reacted to bullets. He has no bullet timing feats. He aim dodged, that's it.
If Ozy moved in bullet timing speed then he would be on the floor drained after one block. As seen in the film.
Ozy is insanely strong. He casually leaped 30 ft through the air and crushed a steel laser gun with his foot. He threw Rorschach clear across the room (more than 30 feet away).
He also have superhuman senses. He casually blocked many attacks he never saw coming from behind. He was blocking both their attacks simultaneously. His skill is unparalleled. He schooled two peak humans like little children.
Ozy is strong but WS is stronger and has fought legit super human opponents. The watchmen Ozy beat up greatest feat was beating up prisoners.
Black widow alone is greater than any of the watchmen that are not named Ozy or Dr Manhattan, and WS treated her like she was nothing.
Also he didnt throw Rorschach that far. It was more like 10 feet. The vid was posted earlier in this thread.
Originally posted by InhumanIf Ozy moved in bullet timing speed then he would be on the floor drained after one block. As seen in the film.
Ozy is strong but WS is stronger and has fought legit super human opponents. The watchmen Ozy beat up greatest feat was beating up prisoners.
Black widow alone is greater than any of the watchmen that are not named Ozy or Dr Manhattan, and WS treated her like she was nothing.
Also he didnt throw Rorschach that far. It was more like 10 feet. The vid was posted earlier in this thread.
You didn't read my posts I see.
Originally posted by h1a8
WS moves MANY TIMES SLOWER than a bullet. Ozy would perceive him almost at a standstill. Ozy wouldn't need to move anywhere near as fast as he did when he caught the bullet. He will casually block, parry, and counter any WS attack.WS never reacted to bullets. He has no bullet timing feats. He aim dodged, that's it.
Ozy is insanely strong. He casually leaped 30 ft through the air and crushed a steel laser gun with his foot. He threw Rorschach clear across the room (more than 30 feet away).
He also have superhuman senses. He casually blocked many attacks he never saw coming from behind. He was blocking both their attacks simultaneously. His skill is unparalleled. He schooled two peak humans like little children. [/B]
I can fight Hulk, doesn't mean I have superhuman strength. Who Bucky fought is meaningless. What Bucky has done SPECIFICALLY is what proves strength.
Rorschach is far stronger than Widow. Probably 2-3x stronger. Are you comparing strength or skill? Widow would have gotten killed or badly beaten in prison if she was in Rorschach place.
He threw Rorschach OVER 30 feet.
He threw comedian over 20feet through reinforced skyscraper window glass. He easily caught a comedian punch which busted through solid marble like it was nothing.
Originally posted by h1a8
You didn't read my posts I see.I can fight Hulk, doesn't mean I have superhuman strength. Who Bucky fought is meaningless. What Bucky has done SPECIFICALLY is what proves strength.
Rorschach is far stronger than Widow. Probably 2-3x stronger. Are you comparing strength or skill? Widow would have gotten killed or badly beaten in prison if she was in Rorschach place.
He threw Rorschach OVER 30 feet.
He threw comedian over 20feet through reinforced skyscraper window glass. He easily caught a comedian punch which busted through solid marble like it was nothing.
What Bucky has done in his movie appearances >>> Ozy Strength wise.
Post the video where Ozy throws him over 30 feet.
Also lol @ you trying to say Black Widow cant beat up common prisoner fodder. Shes taken on far deadlier foes than prisoners or NiteOwl, Rorsch, Silk Spectre.