Ozymandias vs. Winter Soldier (h2h)

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Right, based on implied power they should be able to you moronic idiot. I agree, and you're PROVING my point and don't even realize it. That is how dumb you truly are.

I can't believe I'm actually having this conversation with you, I must be losing my mind.

Listen up you phucking dunce, because I'm only saying this once.

Ozymandias. Is not. Odin.

You can't take an example with such an extreme difference in power like Odin, and Bucky, and then just super impose that same logic on two completely different scenarios. In order for this asinine argument to make any sense, Ozymandias would have to be several orders of magnitude above Bucky in power, which he isn't. You obviously can't compare a dude who's one pieced an army of Frost Giants with street characters.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
It exhibits the point.... You can't try and compare feats of something the other person hasn't even tried and then go... see he can't do it. You're too dumb to understand that absence of proof isn't proof. That is exactly the point I was making. Ozy never tried hitting a steel door... What he did do, that is similar to what WS has done is kick people.. throw people... punch people... Jumping.. reactions... arm movement speed in combat. All these things we can ACTIVELY compare. Understand now you pint sized dweeb?

I doesn't work that way, you unibrowed mouth breather. You can't just assume Ozy can replicate Bucky's high end feats just because he hasn't tried them. I've seen some shitty arguments, but that one takes the cake. If Ozy tried to replicate Bucky's prison feat, his hand would explode. Never mind the fact that he'd never be able to break the restraints to even get out of the chair.

The fact remains Ozymandias has done NOTHING to suggest he'd come anywhere near the punching power necessary to replicate this feat.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
RightGood, so you can't match Ozy bullet catch feat then. You feat you mentioned isn't even on the same level as Ozy. You can VISIBLY see WS raise his arm BEFOER the shots were fired. He was AIM blocking. While somewhat impressive in a combat awareness and deduction feat.. It's not an impressive reaction feat. Ozy only moved his arm AFTER the bullet was fired. That poops all over the feat you mentioned. You concede WS can't replicate the reactions of Ozy... the perception of Ozy.. the arm movement speed of Ozy. I accept. Let's move on

😆

You're just trying so hard to grasp at anything you can, and it's just getting sad.

Aim blocking? Go **** yourself. Silk Spectre was standing there for a solid minute aiming the gun at Ozy before she does anything. Bucky raises his hand with an outstretched palm and blocks several shots from an automatic weapon, in the heat of combat.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
The kicking feat you mentioned, while somewhat close, falls painfully short from a power perspective. Not only is WS feat ambiguous in nature because of the jet engine. It could easily be viewed as that aided the guys flight and being sucked into the engine. Really hard to say. Lets' say it didn't though... we are still left with it being behind Ozy from a power perspective. Ozy hit somebody ON THE GROUND in the head.. and sent them 15 feat. Never in all my life have I seen somebody kicking in the head on the ground.. and they sent flying. Not in real life not in the UFC.. not in Pride not in any old Vale Tudo fights. They barely move. In STARK contrast, we've seen people get kicking square in the chest as we say WS do.. and we've seen people go flying backwards. Obviously because its much easier to move an object of decent weight by striking a part with the most surface area and weight. Granted the kick was still powerful because while people are sent flying backwards they are sent into the air like that. So obviously it was a powerful kick. It just didn't exert the force Ozy's kick did. How much force Ozy would have to generate to send somebody flying just by kicking their head would be crazy. He did. That's the point. These feats are close, I've conceded that, but Ozy's is a little better. I'll await your answer to the above.

This is all, just pure nonsense. I don't even know where to start. You can't just start throwing real life physics into fictional universes that don't abide by the same rules. You've never seen someone fly 15 feet from a downed kick, in Pride because it's not possible, and if it were possible the person on the receiving end would surely die. People fall from chest kicks because wait for it .... *drum roll* they're knocked off balance.

Either way, you can generate a lot more force with a running soccer kick, than a stationary side kick, despite the smaller surface area.

Holy shit you told him the **** off while decimating every single retarded point he thinks he had.

😂

This is great.

Doesn't change the fact Ozy can catch a bullet after it has been fired from the chamber while his arms are down by his side.
Wasn't so much as touched in his fight scenes.
Imo ozy is definitely the better fighter. Just nowhere near as strong.
Thus loses because of said strength gap.

Omega spawn has conceded to WS. **** yes.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Omega spawn has conceded to WS. **** yes.

I've only been addressing the downplaying of Ozy

Originally posted by 0mega Spawn
I been said WS wins -_-

I've only been addressing the downplaying of Ozy

Originally posted by quanchi112
Hahaha. Damn right WS wins and take that Kt you dummy.

Originally posted by 0mega Spawn
Doesn't change the fact Ozy can catch a bullet after it has been fired from the chamber while his arms are down by his side.
Wasn't so much as touched in his fight scenes.
Imo ozy is definitely the better fighter. Just nowhere near as strong.
Thus loses because of said strength gap.

Also doesn't change the fact that Ozy has never once used that kind of speed in actual combat nor has he gone up against any enhanced opponents like WS has.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Holy shit you told him the **** off while decimating every single retarded point he thinks he had.

😂

This is great.

He didn't decimate anything... he got owned, and will get owned again in a minute sport

The important thing to remember is that WS wins.

Originally posted by Khazra Reborn

I can't believe I'm actually having this conversation with you, I must be losing my mind.

Listen up you phucking dunce, because I'm only saying this once.

Ozymandias. Is not. Odin.

You can't take an example with such an extreme difference in power like Odin, and Bucky, and then just super impose that same logic on two completely different scenarios. In order for this asinine argument to make any sense, Ozymandias would have to be several orders of magnitude above Bucky in power, which he isn't. You obviously can't compare a dude who's one pieced an army of Frost Giants with street characters.

I doesn't work that way, you unibrowed mouth breather. You can't just assume Ozy can replicate Bucky's high end feats just because he hasn't tried them. I've seen some shitty arguments, but that one takes the cake. If Ozy tried to replicate Bucky's prison feat, his hand would explode. Never mind the fact that he'd never be able to break the restraints to even get out of the chair.

The fact remains Ozymandias has done NOTHING to suggest he'd come anywhere near the punching power necessary to replicate this feat.

😆

You're just trying so hard to grasp at anything you can, and it's just getting sad.

Aim blocking? Go **** yourself. Silk Spectre was standing there for a solid minute aiming the gun at Ozy before she does anything. Bucky raises his hand with an outstretched palm and blocks several shots from an automatic weapon, in the heat of combat.

This is all, just pure nonsense. I don't even know where to start. You can't just start throwing real life physics into fictional universes that don't abide by the same rules. You've never seen someone fly 15 feet from a downed kick, in Pride because it's not possible, and if it were possible the person on the receiving end would surely die. People fall from chest kicks because wait for it .... *drum roll* they're knocked off balance.

Either way, you can generate a lot more force with a running soccer kick, than a stationary side kick, despite the smaller surface area. [/B]

1. That is the point though, the extreme example was used to illustrate the point, a point you are unaware of because you're piss poof at debating. Absence of proof isn't proof. You can't ask Ozy to have a feat comparable to another feat when he didn't even try it or try anything close to it; and then go, see he's below him he didn't do that thing he never tried. Is this your first debate or something? The single best way to determine power levels is by comparing similar feats, not ones somebody tried and somebody else didn't try you pint sized buffoon. Do I have to hold your hand through every argument like I do Quan? Seemingly so.

2. Again, you have zero clue how to actually deduce what you're looking at clownshoes. I literally have to hold your hand through each section of this debate shortbus. The issue isn't that WS was AIM blocking... he just simply was. IT doesn't even matter if you believe Ozy was. Ozy could've had SS arm in a vice and positioned to fire exactly where he had prepped. He could be in the exact position he prepped to be in (None of this obviously happened but it could have, and it would still poop all over Bucky's feat). All that could be true, he still raised his arm AFTER the shot was fired. That is EXPOENTIALLY a better display of reactions and arm movement... then raising your arm BEFORE a shot was fired. Holy shit you're dumber than I thought if you think those things are even remotely comparable. So yes, when WS raises his arm before the shots were fired, that is vastly below Ozy's feat. I accept your concession here, yet again.

3. It's so easy to corner you and own you. It's pathetic really if you think you're good at this. Let's own. So you'd like to use real life physics/chemistry when it comes to the compound/elements that make up steel and the force required to damage it; but when it comes to other real life things, oh you can't use real life physics in a movie. You don't say? You just did, and you're trying to use it as proof. Would you care for me to ask for the make up of that steel door? Should I question if the door was properly mounted? Do you know? Of course not, but using your logic I should and could. The fact remains that Ozy DID accomplish the feat it question and it WOULD require more force to accomplish than WS. Covering up your ears and going no no no real life physics don't apply I see, do know how many feats I can eliminate from Cap or WS using that mantra? Keep going, I like seeing you did your own grave shoes. Now let's recap where we stand so far:

1. Reactions/Perception - You were unable to bring a feat to the table that matched Ozy bullet catch feat. So we're left with Ozy displaying superior
A. Reactions
B. Perception
C. Arm movement

2. Kicking feats - Again you were unable to come up with a feat that surpasses the striking power Ozy displays here. Close, I'll say close, but not quite there

The next category you've now avoided for the 3rd time, but that isn't the least bit surprising

Show me a throwing feat from bucky that surpasses the distance Ozy threw RO. Are you going to avoid this for the 4th time are does it seem painfully apparent yet that WS isn't 10x better than Ozy at anything, shit he's not even really better in most things, let alone 10x better LOL

Originally posted by 0mega Spawn
Doesn't change the fact Ozy can catch a bullet after it has been fired from the chamber while his arms are down by his side.
Wasn't so much as touched in his fight scenes.
Imo ozy is definitely the better fighter. Just nowhere near as strong.
Thus loses because of said strength gap.

Odd, there's this strength gap you speak of when the feats to bare it out. Let's examine, as you seem a little bit confused on this subject.

In combat Bucky has thrown and tossed people. In combat Ozy has thrown and tossed people. If the strength gap was big and Ozy is "no where near as strong" then explain why Ozy has thrown people further? That doesn't seem to make sense does it?

In combat Bucky has kicked people, Ozy has kicked people. IF Bucky was so much stronger, than was has Ozy displayed a more powerful kick in combat? Odd somebody could throw somebody further and kick somebody harder.. yet be so vastly inferior strength wise... Oh wait..

Jumping, again required strength in the legs, back/core of the body. Being that you feel Bucky is so much stronger overall, you'd think he have the more impressive jumping feats... after all you seem to think he's body is simply stronger and better. Yet Ozy has jumped vastly further than WS ever has. Odd somebody so much weaker as you say could do that.

I think it's time to reevaluate this large strength gap you seem to think exists, it clearly doesn't big O.

Bucky's metal arm has overpowered Cap and Cap's feats >> Ozy.

And?? Cap was still able to block his blows.. BW was still able to block his blows, a IM not in his suit was able to block his blows... Agent 13 was able to counter a blow. Point is, I don't care what his arm overpowered... Regular skilled humans were able to block the arm... That is all that matters in this fight... Can it be blocked, and the answer is unquestionably yes.

At least you now admit that the strength gap is there and in WS' favor.

I didn't admit anything one way or the other. What I did say is, I don't care what is arm overpowered when I see regular humans block his blows with that same arm

IOW you know the strength edge is in WS' favor, so you're changing your argument.

Originally posted by FrothByte
Also doesn't change the fact that Ozy has never once used that kind of speed in actual combat nor has he gone up against any enhanced opponents like WS has.

I've asked you this before and you have yet to answer. How do you know he hasn't?

It's quite clear the director say no need to portray how it would appear in real life. We see his arm move in the bullet catching feat which clearly demonstrates the director intention and what he wanted. So if we see his arm move in the bullet catch feat... and we see his arm punching and blocking... How do you actually know it wasn't as fast? I'm curious?

We've seen the movies, WS is the faster fighter.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
I've asked you this before and you have yet to answer. How do you know he hasn't?

It's quite clear the director say no need to portray how it would appear in real life. We see his arm move in the bullet catching feat which clearly demonstrates the director intention and what he wanted. So if we see his arm move in the bullet catch feat... and we see his arm punching and blocking... How do you actually know it wasn't as fast? I'm curious?

Because in the mvf, we go by what is shown by feats. Feats trump conjecture every single time. Bullets don't change trajectory. They don't launch combinations. What one can do once doesn't mean he can do it multiple times.