Ozymandias vs. Winter Soldier (h2h)

Started by quanchi112150 pages

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Let the big boys discuss things. Everybody thinks you're a joke and an awful debater. Why do you think you're constantly laughed at on here? So if that's the cause why are you interjecting in the discussion? Nobody cares about your thoughts or views. What's worse, I ALREADY posted the video. Every single thing I've referenced are in 3 clips.. The Ozy vs. RO and N.O. fight... Ozy catching the bullet.. and finally Ozy vs. the Comedian. I posted the videos and referenced each specific incident. So to see you say post the evidence is exactly why you're laughed at on here. It has been posted already.
Want to battlezone this with me ? Let's see you backdown again.

Originally posted by 0mega Spawn
Lmao You notice i don't even bother responding to him
You didn't want to get caught lying. You were. You said Bucky didn't even hurt Cap.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Sound analogy for the win

👆

Originally posted by Robtard
👆
Cheerleader.

Originally posted by 0mega Spawn
Yes because Bucky won a fight out of the 3 he and cap had 😂

Do you have any feats of Ozy doing as well against a Cap level opponent as WS did?

Originally posted by Nibedicus
Dude. You really shouldn't be claiming that you "trounced" ppl when you're the only person who seems to think so.

And I fail to see how an arbitrary set of criteria you manufactured somehow translates to Ozy winning the fight.

And saying that it's "hard to gauge" Ozy's durability because he has no durability "feats" is the same as me saying it's "hard to gauge" WS's jumping "feats" because he has no jumping "feats". Ozy actually has one durability "showing", his bullet catch using his bullet proof glove. Which knocked him down and stunned him for a good few seconds. Even tho he spun around to dissipate some of the bullet's energy.

So let's break it down:

It showed that the energy produced by a .38 special is sufficient to stun him even when catches it by hand (about 320j) and dissipates some of the energy.

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.38_Special

By contrast, an average karate punch has about 100-150j of energy in it. And Rocky Marciano has had one of his power punch measured in at 1028j.

Source: https://www.physicsforums.com/threads/bullet-vs-punch.225988/

Not looking too good durability wise, now is he?

And the kick thing? Ozy kicked a man on the ground, 10 feet. WS kicked a man 3x the distance plus many times the height. You CLAIM, that kicking a man in the head and sending him 10 feet requires more energy than kicking a full grown man 20-30 feet (plus around 10 feet high). But that is all just a claim til you can prove it. I will admit the math is beyond me, so I cannot answer for sure, but I will also not accept your word for it either, if that would be ok with you. Do the math or simply stop claiming speculation as fact.

As for the rest? jumping? throwing (WS actually has the better "feat" here with his freeway toss)? All irrelevant, as I can come up with my own arbitrary list of criteria and claim victory as well. Like blocking, balance, dodging, etc. where WS does have better showings. But I won't do that as that would be silly.

Bottom line, logic dictates that we weigh the 2 based on how they fight, how they've been shown to fight and how their corresponding advantages allow them to win. WS is stronger than Ozy, that is fact. He is tougher than Ozy, fact as well. And he WILL hit Ozy, that is of no doubt. WS will tank Ozy's hits. Ozy will not tank WS's hits all that well.

Nibs, my homie...

I agree with much of what you've posted.

But I also disagree with some of what you posted. Ozy kicked a man about 30-ish feet, almost completely horizontally (no arc, in general, in the flight path, which indicates a speed so fast that gravity did not really come into play), so hard that the body pulverized a marble or cement wall/column. That tells us a couple of things:

1. Ozy, who is supposedly on par with those other people, at the bare minimum, has an absurd amount of durability because his leg could produce that kind of force without crumbling all of his bones into meat paste (which, in the real world, if you could produce that kind of force with his leg, upon impact with a rigid body, it would turn his leg into meat paste).

2. Ozy dished out more than enough force for Rorschach to pulverize the marble/cement wall/column (I don't remember what it was). Pulverizing stone, even artificial composites like cement (actually, cement is stronger/sturdier than many kinds of stones (minerals)), requires a stupid amount of force especially from an elastic/non-rigid body such as Rorschach (because, upon impact, much of the transverse energy would dissipate as the elastic body (soft squishy matter known as flesh) makes a collision with the hard surface as well as some of that energy being lost in the limbs that have not quite made contact with the hard surface (a virtually inelastic body in that system)).

I hope that clears things up on Ozy's strength. Ozy's strength and durability are around the ballpark of movie Rogers. But I still give the nod to Rogers since Captain America 2 feats.

Alright, let the angry posting between everyone continue. Sorry I interjected. I'll see myself out.

Originally posted by Silent Master
Do you have any feats of Ozy doing as well against a Cap level opponent as WS did?

Yes when he fought TWO peak humans by the name of NO and Ror... he wasn't touched once.... and caught a bullet to further display his speed.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
This is borderline comical now. I mean really funny.

YOU claim Bucky's kick was farther. PROVE IT. The angles of the camera give ZERO indication it was 20 feet let alone 30 LMAO. That is a complete and total fabrication. Shit, you can't even tell it was 20 feet. In the scene where he's actually struck, It in NO way looks like he traveled 20 feet. I don't think you realize how far that really is. In your house.. take 20 steps.. Look at that distance, and ask yourself.... does it appear the guy flew THAT far.. let alone 30 feet LMAO. No way. He looks to have traveled at most 15. However, I already said I can even allow 20.. because Ozy's kick is superior plain and simple. So I find it funny you want me to prove something about force of a kick.. yet you're unable to even prove how far WS kick was. It will be even funnier if you walk off 30 feet and tell me he kicked him that far... shit, you'll probably give yourself a chuckle.

I have no formula to prove kicking strength... what I do have though is common sense and logic. Do you not agree it's much harder to send someone flying who's on the ground and you kick them in the head... compared to two guys standing and one guy kicks the other in the chest. Surely, you'd agree it's much easier.. and by much easier I mean MUCH easier to send someone flying from a kick to the chest. That is simply where the majority of he mass is, thus you'll be able to more the object further then if you kick an extremity with very little mass. It's like saying I can kick someone's arm and send them flying as far as if kicked them in the chest LOL. It's laughable. Watch any UFC or Pride fights... training videos.. street fights... Notice how far back people fly from kicks to the chest... they go flying back and tumbling back. Happens all the time. Have you ever seen a kick to the head send someone flying or even tumbling back when they are already on the ground? Absolutely not. You seem to claim you subscribe to logic and reason. Well, let's see. By the way.. Ozy's kick looked further than 10 feet, in fact, it looked just as far.. though maybe not as high in the air. It's more than 10 feet that's for sure. Never mind, that he was kicked so hard.. he bounced off a pillar mid flight.. and still flew another 6-10 feet. To even think WS kick generated more force is kind of funny to me.

Throwing, again, this isn't close. Ozy threw somebody just as far, if not further. He seemed to even do damage to the pillar the guy was thrown so hard. We aren't talking about an unsuspecting old dude in a car who was caught by surprise We're talking about throwing peak human skill level guys. Even the comedian throw... look at how far that throw was through bullet proof glass. So no, WS doesn't have better throwing feats.

These were hardly arbitrary, they were things you'd see in most fights... Punches, kicks, throws, skill, strength, speed, reactions, durability... All the main variables for a fight. They were hardly arbitrary.

Yes. Yes. Simply ignore the evidence and diagrams shoved at your face over and over again that it was somehow 10 feet like you previously said. I'm sure eventually ppl will get tired posting the evidence and you can claim you've won something and maybe even convince yourself someday.... sigh.

The force needed to send a body flying is equivalent to the weight of the body plus the acceleration needed to keep him off the ground in flight as per demonstrated distance. A person can generate more force with a front kick, sure. But then again, the much further distances demonstrated would take quite a bit a lot of energy as well. Like I said, the math is beyond me.

Some energy would be lost with the head cocking to the side but it will not dissipate most of the energy. Granted the needed force to send someone flying from a head kick should be sufficient to snap the head instead of sending the guy, flying. Assuming the head being kicked is durable enough not to get its neck snapped, then the above logic applies.

And I am more than happy to believe you once you can show me the math. Til then, I am going to have to not take your word for it and simply say. "Well, I don't really know".

My previous argument has always been about WS's kick being further. Nothing more, nothing less. But I'm not about to take your claim that harder difficulty means more power even tho it has much less distance.

No, it was 10 feet, maybe less. Measure the TV's. There were around 2.5 feet per (basing it on Ror's height as he crashed into it with his knees bent). He was kicked a distance of a little less than 4 screens. Watch the scene again.

As for the throw? You understand that while Ozy had decent positioning and leverage, WS threw a guy with one hand using an extremely difficult angle? Do a one hand lat raise and see how much weight you can lift. Now do a body toss and see how much. You like talking about how one action is far more difficult than the other, suddenly forgot about it because it doesn't suit your argument?

As well as grapples, blocks, reversals, positioning, feints, movement, combination strikes, etc. there are many possible factors in a fight. Most are not relevant to how a fight will turn out, tho. You can't just go and select the ones you like arbitrarily.

Originally posted by 0mega Spawn
Yes two by the name of NO and Ror... he wasn't touched once.... and caught a bullet to further display his speed.

Neither of those are anywhere near Cap level, so again, has Ozy ever done as well against a Cap level opponent as WS did?

Originally posted by quanchi112
Want to battlezone this with me ? Let's see you backdown again.

I already challenged you and backdown from me. Trying to pontificate otherwise is comical. Besides, I probably won't get as much enjoyment out of this type of battle as I would the Bolg vs. Cap stomp one lol. This has been discussed for pages and pages with people better than you. So why would I battlezone you... when people have already helped you do some of the work on a subject I've already been discussing ad nauseam. Stop pretending like you didn't back down to me first.. you did. Besides, I've already proven you've backed down countless more times than me. I illustrated 3 threads where you said "not interested".. "Don't care enough about these characters" "not time for it" ... Those aren't valid excuses... those are you backing down over and over. I could find more just like it. Which again, is why it's funny to see you say I backed down.. when you've done it more and backed down from me originally

Originally posted by dadudemon
Nibs, my homie...

I agree with much of what you've posted.

But I also disagree with some of what you posted. Ozy kicked a man about 30-ish feet, almost completely horizontally (no arc, in general, in the flight path, which indicates a speed so fast that gravity did not really come into play), so hard that the body pulverized a marble or cement wall/column. That tells us a couple of things:

1. Ozy, who is supposedly on par with those other people, at the bare minimum, has an absurd amount of durability because his leg could produce that kind of force without crumbling all of his bones into meat paste (which, in the real world, if you could produce that kind of force with his leg, upon impact with a rigid body, it would turn his leg into meat paste).

2. Ozy dished out more than enough force for Rorschach to pulverize the marble/cement wall/column (I don't remember what it was). Pulverizing stone, even artificial composites like cement (actually, cement is stronger/sturdier than many kinds of stones (minerals)), requires a stupid amount of force especially from an elastic/non-rigid body such as Rorschach (because, upon impact, much of the transverse energy would dissipate as the elastic body (soft squishy matter known as flesh) makes a collision with the hard surface as well as some of that energy being lost in the limbs that have not quite made contact with the hard surface (a virtually inelastic body in that system)).

I hope that clears things up on Ozy's strength. Ozy's strength and durability are around the ballpark of movie Rogers. But I still give the nod to Rogers since Captain America 2 feats.

Alright, let the angry posting between everyone continue. Sorry I interjected. I'll see myself out.

Hey man, it was 10 feet if you mean the Ror face kick. I used the TV's as a reference and counted it from Ozy's body positioning as he took flight. Was around almost 4 tvs distance. Each TV is around 2.5 feet as Ror was around 2 TV's length while his knees and body were bent (0:39). The rest of the distance was his fall downward while still carrying some of the momentum from the kick.

And Ror flying didn't pulverise the column, either. He just bounced off it. You must be remembering wrong. (0:50-0:52)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G3CYN7_Aa7E

Here is a diagram I used to determine his flight and distance:

First image is his starting point prior to flight.

Second image is his ending/impact point. With the added fall trajectory outlined.

Originally posted by Silent Master
Neither of those are anywhere near Cap level, so again, has Ozy ever done as well against a Cap level opponent as WS did?

Again NO and SS could punch through human bone like saltine crackers Ror kicked a man so hard he knocked other men down like bowling pins.... and Ozy treated them like children.

Show me a fight where Bucky fought 2 people without being touched once.
Show me where Bucky caught a bullet with his hand.
Show me where Bucky moved 15 feet around obstacles without being noticed by ex military peak human.

See how silly that game is?

Not to mention Bucky himself lacked the necessary skills to do ANYTHING to Cap.

H2H -beat
Pulls out gun -disarmed
Pulls or knife- disarmed

I have not a doubt in my mind Ozy could lose to cap in the same manner Bucky did 😂

Originally posted by 0mega Spawn
Again NO and SS could through human bone like saltine crackers Ror kicked a man so hard he knocked other men down like bowling pins.... and Ozy treated them like children.

Show me a fight where Bucky fought 2 people without being touched once.
Show me where Bucky caught a bullet with his hand.
Show me where Bucky moved 15 feet around obstacles without being noticed by ex military peak human.

See how silly that game is?

Not to mention Bucky himself lacked the necessary skills to do ANYTHING to Cap.

H2H -beat
Pulls out gun -disarmed
Pulls or knife- disarmed

I have not a doubt in my mind Ozy could lose to cap in the same manner Bucky did 😂

That's nice, but neither one of them even comes close to Cap based on feats so I'm going to ask again. Do you have any feats of Ozy doing as well against a Cap level opponent has WS did?

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
I think you're lowballing the Ozy vs. Comedian speed feat. Comedian is no average Joe Nib and you know it. He's a well trained ex military vet. One of the best. He's also great in h2h if you know anything about in from movies and comics. He's clearly got heightened reactions and sight himself. So yes, it would be IMPOSSIBLE for somebody to be 15-20 feet away from a expert military dude... have him roll EVEN further away... and yet with no sound... no visual on the target... all of a sudden his RIGHT AT YOUR SIDE... and you didn't even know it or hear it. Yes, that would be impossible for any human to pull off. Even on a normal person it would be very hard to be totally silent and that fast in your movement to not be seen. Maybe though. Not a trained person with himself heightened sense.. No way, unless you had incredible speed. Then again we know he does... just reference the jump and bullet catch and blocking punches with his back turned. All corroborate said speed.

I will agree, Comedian is a badass. Never said he wasn't. He's however, old and broken at this time of his career. Doesn't mean he's a slouch, tho.

I will disagree about him not being able to lose sight. Especially since it is even shown in the movie that he DID lose sight. That can't be argued here. He didn't hear it because Ozzy didn't make a sound (duh). And Ozy is not a normal person, he can certainly either move that fast. He, however, did not prove any superspeed with this "feat", just that he was able to cover a good distance with a lot of stealth.

Originally posted by 0mega Spawn
😂

Hit me up when Bucky catches a bullet bro...

5/10 both

Happy With that?

Well, looks like you have nothing to counter my arguments...

/shrug

Feel free to rate however you want, free country. Unless you live in one that's not, I mean. Doesn't mean ppl will agree with you.

Originally posted by 0mega Spawn
Yes when he fought TWO peak humans by the name of NO and Ror... he wasn't touched once.... and caught a bullet to further display his speed.

So now Nite-Owl and Rorschach are Cap level? 😆

Originally posted by 0mega Spawn
Again NO and SS could punch through human bone like saltine crackers

Averag people could also punch and kick through human bone as long as angle, leverage and technique are right. We have more than enough power to break bones.

Originally posted by tkitna
So now Nite-Owl and Rorschach are Cap level? 😆

No where'd You get that?

The point is they didn't touch him

Originally posted by FrothByte
Averag people could also punch and kick through human bone as long as angle, leverage and technique are right. We have more than enough power to break bones.

And punch and kick people several feet where the wall would need to stop them from going any further?