1. No proof Ozy can move at bullet-timing speeds continuously and in a fight scenario
2. No proof that Ozy can handle getting hit by a superhuman
3. No proof that Ozy has knockout power to take out WS
Now even if we consider KT's stance (which I do not), the only argument here is:
1. No proof that WS is fast enough to keep up with Ozy
Still, that's 1 pro-Ozy point against 3 pro-WS points.
Originally posted by FrothByte
1. No proof Ozy can move at bullet-timing speeds continuously and in a fight scenario
2. No proof that Ozy can handle getting hit by a superhuman
3. No proof that Ozy has knockout power to take out WSNow even if we consider KT's stance (which I do not), the only argument here is:
1. No proof that WS is fast enough to keep up with Ozy
Still, that's 1 pro-Ozy point against 3 pro-WS points.
1. Again, this is up to you to prove. If superman an read every book in the world about medicine to find a cure.. and is showing flipping pages. He does so in a minute. Can he punch 100 times in a second? Of course, he should be able to punch 10000 times in a second, and that is underselling it grossly. Your arm can either move that fast or it can't. Simple. You're not grasping the concept of how fast you'd need to be to move your arm that fast. His perception is clearly vastly above Bucky's
2. This is the worst of the lot. It actually has been conclusively proven he can. BW was able to parry his arm and counter, IM was able to counter his arm and parry not in his suit. Hawkeye parrying BP numerous times. The same BP who was casually sending WS flying and punking him. Hawkeye was blocking his blows better than WS and to better effect. IF BW can parry his blows, Ozy will have zero issue.
3. Of course he does, BP stunned him a few times with his blows. Same with Cap. Being that Ozy has striking feats very comparable to them as far as hitting people and sending them flying. I think it's safe to say he does. It might take a bit because WS is durable and all. But to think WS can just take blows that send people flying 10 feet or 20 feet is silly. He could for awhile, but not endlessly
Originally posted by FrothByte
1. No proof Ozy can move at bullet-timing speeds continuously and in a fight scenario
2. No proof that Ozy can handle getting hit by a superhuman
3. No proof that Ozy has knockout power to take out WSNow even if we consider KT's stance (which I do not), the only argument here is:
1. No proof that WS is fast enough to keep up with Ozy
Still, that's 1 pro-Ozy point against 3 pro-WS points.
He's never going to post proof, he's just going to claim that the burden is on you, despite the fact that he's the one claiming that Ozy can do these things.
Originally posted by Inhuman
No one is saying that Ozy cant move at these speeds. What im saying is that he cant move at these speeds continuously. There is no proof. The only proof is that after he does a bullet catch speed block he will be left open and defenseless.
More importantly, we have seen Ozy's fighting speed and it's nowhere near bullet-time level.
Originally posted by Inhuman
No one is saying that Ozy cant move at these speeds. What im saying is that he cant move at these speeds continuously. There is no proof. The only proof is that after he does a bullet catch speed block he will be left open and defenseless.
There's no need to move that fast...like kt said.
50 of ws soldiers punches won't even compare to such speed.
I do believe ws wins because ozy will tire long before he does.
Originally posted by Inhuman
No one is saying that Ozy cant move at these speeds. What im saying is that he cant move at these speeds continuously. There is no proof. The only proof is that after he does a bullet catch speed block he will be left open and defenseless.
That was YOUR claim that he was left defenseless. Even people that think WS wins could easily see he was playing around. Just like he was in the book. He was feigning being KO'd and hurt. He was smirking while laying there with his eyes closed. That isn't how somebody acts who's visible hurt and stunned. I no way does that prove he needed time to recover.
Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
That was YOUR claim that he was left defenseless. Even people that think WS wins could easily see he was playing around. Just like he was in the book. He was feigning being KO'd and hurt. He was smirking while laying there with his eyes closed. That isn't how somebody acts who's visible hurt and stunned. I no way does that prove he needed time to recover.
Ok, so if you have a problem with how im interpreting what was shown on screen and are saying that is not proof, then show "proof" to suggest Ozy can maintain that speed in a fight.
Originally posted by Inhuman
Ok, so if you have a problem with how im interpreting what was shown on screen and are saying that is not proof, then show "proof" to suggest Ozy can maintain that speed in a fight.
I can't say for certain how long he'll be able to do anything. I can safely say he probably has very good stamina. But how long he could maintain said speed, who knows, this is though, he doesn't need to maintain such speed. Vastly slower reactions would be needed to block WS punches. So I don't know why you're asking me how long he can maintain said speed, when he doesn't even need close to said speed to block those punches.
Originally posted by 0mega Spawn
There's no need to move that fast...like kt said.
50 of ws soldiers punches won't even compare to such speed.
I do believe ws wins because ozy will tire long before he does.
I actually disagree he'll get tired and lose. I think he'll put down WS before it even gets to that point. I'd also like to point out that the SS is suppose to make them peak level humans. The best the human body could be. You'll remember, Ozy is also suppose to be the pinnacle of human evolution through training. So I'm not very concerned about his stamina, especially when I don't believe WS will last long enough to find out what his levels are.
Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
You do understand that the speed need to catch a bullet at that distance, when your arm is at your side. You do realize that's is faster than bucky could throw 50 punches, and I'm vastly underselling the speed even saying that.
This would be an extremely wrong number. I did the math somewhere in this thread, based on it, (closest approximation) at BEST, Ozy is moving his arm at a little under 4x peak human speeds. At worst, about 1.5x. to 2x (or more) peak human. Alternatively, WS moved his legs around 1.5x-2x peak human by outrunning the speeding cars and did this at a sustained pace (although, like I said, this number will change when I watch the movie again as I'm not sure where the scene was shot so can't really speak on the average speed of cars there).
When I say "peak human", I meant world records.
So you have Ozy being able to pull a one-of unsustainable arm movement that peaks at 4x human speed and WS pulling off a sustained 1.5-2x (or more) speed. As limb speed goes, these "feats" aren't too far off.
Sup Nib bud, I think you're numbers quite a bit off there. A handgun bullet can travel anywhere between 700 to 1400 Feet Per second. Now, being that Ozy was only 5 feet away, and moved his arm AFTER the bullet was fired.. means he moved his arm even faster than that. You should work out your numbers again big Nib, because they aren't jiving.
Even still, Ozy being 2 or 3x faster in arm movement is drastically faster. Even using your stats means Ozy is considerably faster.
Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Sup Nib bud, I think you're numbers quite a bit off there. A handgun bullet can travel anywhere between 700 to 1400 Feet Per second. Now, being that Ozy was only 5 feet away, and moved his arm AFTER the bullet was fired.. means he moved his arm even faster than that. You should work out your numbers again big Nib, because they aren't jiving.Even still, Ozy being 2 or 3x faster in arm movement is drastically faster. Even using your stats means Ozy is considerably faster.
Dammit KT, you making me go thru dozens of pages of discussions just to find my original posg. :-p
Here is my math, feel free to correct it:
Originally posted by Nibedicus
Let me quantify the bullet catch "feat" so ppl have a better idea what we're really talking about here. Pls feel free to check my math.Variables:
.38 Special ave. muzzle speed: 650 mph
Distance covered by bullet: 6-8 feet based on the angle SS shot her. Will go with 6 feet.
Distance arm needed to cover to catch bullet: 1-1.5 feet tops as Ozy only required to lift his right arm to catch it. Left arm seemed to get raised but at the end, it was his right hand that caught the bullet. Left arm may well have been used to try and control his fall.6 feet vs 1.5 feet for hand within same span of time means arm only needs to travel 1/4 the speed of the bullet or around 162.5 mph. This number will fluctuate based on distance, bullet type and other factors.
Fastest punch is about 45mph, fastest throws around 100 mph.
Feel free to check my math.
Take this information however you wish.
It is also not 2-3x faster. More like 1.5-2x. And that is top unsustained speed vs easily-sustained speed. Differences will start to blur within those values. Especially when you take into consideration that WS has more numerous showings of defending against bullets himself.
Originally posted by Nibedicus
Dammit KT, you making me go thru dozens of pages of discussions just to find my original posg. :-pHere is my math, feel free to correct it:
It is also not 2-3x faster. More like 1.5-2x. And that is top unsustained speed vs easily-sustained speed. Differences will start to blur within those values. Especially when you take into consideration that WS has more numerous showings of defending against bullets himself.
All of this points to what we already know ozy can catch bullets from 6ft away... and buck cant punch faster than a bullet 😬
Originally posted by Nibedicus
Dammit KT, you making me go thru dozens of pages of discussions just to find my original posg. :-pHere is my math, feel free to correct it:
It is also not 2-3x faster. More like 1.5-2x. And that is top unsustained speed vs easily-sustained speed. Differences will start to blur within those values. Especially when you take into consideration that WS has more numerous showings of defending against bullets himself.
The bullets from the G36 Rifles used by the German hit squad move at about 2,057mph. 😎
Originally posted by 0mega Spawn
All of this points to what we already know ozy can catch bullets from 6ft away... and buck cant punch faster than a bullet 😬
So? A bullet travels in a straight trajectory. Bucky can punch, kick and grapple from multiple angles and can even change his blows in mid throw.
Unless you're claiming that Ozy is a speedster that can always move his body at bullet-speeds. Is that what you're claiming?