Ozymandias vs. Winter Soldier (h2h)

Originally posted by FrothByte
I think the character needs to consistently display superhuman performances in at least 1 area. For example, Jessica Jones has consistently displayed superhuman strength though not superhuman durability. That makes her superhuman in my book.

Dutch has only accomplished 1 superhuman feat whereas in everything else he's portrayed as peak human, which to me does not make him superhuman.

Same can be said for Roscharch, Nightowl and Comedian. They have some few superhuman feats, but it doesn't happen consistently enough for me to consider them superhuman.

I'd say that is mostly a fair assessment Froth, so I won't quibble with it much. We're in agreement it's hard to define for N.O. and R, and I think it is as well. To me though, whether we want to call them peak or super, Ozy still treated them like feebs. Which is again the point here. Anytime WS went up against anybody with enhanced stats he didn't feeb them. Not once. Ozy has, and multiple times at that.

Still waiting on somebody to take up the feat challenge I posted on the last page. For all the people saying Bucky wins, and he's superior in these areas... Well, then it shouldn't be hard to post feats exceeding what I listed. I should be really easy. Yet, nobody can. Odd.

Feats have already been posted, you're just doing your usual quan-like trolling.

Come to think of it, why are we even bothering with this anymore? Theres only two people that thinks Ozy wins. We have Civil War coming up soon enough which will remind everybody how silly that opinion truly is.

There are five people on the first page alone that think Ozy wins. You just happen to be debating with two of them.

And sure, maybe WS will get some great feats to net the win once CW comes out. Until then though, this is Ozy's win.

Originally posted by tkitna
Come to think of it, why are we even bothering with this anymore? Theres only two people that thinks Ozy wins. We have Civil War coming up soon enough which will remind everybody how silly that opinion truly is.

Yeah, OK there kiddo. Then post the feats that exceed what I listed for Ozy.. since you believe he's superior it should be no issue. Only you've ran and ducked from post. I accept your concession that Ozy is simply better and WS doesn't match him in the areas you claimed, let alone exceeds him.

Also., where did you learn basic arithmetic? More people voted for Ozy than 2

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
1. Show me a reaction/speed feat from Bucky that exceeds Ozy catching a bullet. Not just the speed to catch a bullet. But having your back turned, arms at your side, and still react fast enough to move your arm up and catch it with your hand

Ozy's back wasn't turned when Silk Specter II shot him. He was looking right at her iirc. Still pretty boss tho

He wasn't directly facing her though... He seems to slightly contorting his body in order to "roll" with the bullet. That is what I meant. He already seemed to be turning his body as the shot was fired. Regardless, I'd like to see a feat that exceeds this speed and reaction feat from Bucky. Still waiting.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Yeah, OK there kiddo. Then post the feats that exceed what I listed for Ozy.. since you believe he's superior it should be no issue. Only you've ran and ducked from post. I accept your concession that Ozy is simply better and WS doesn't match him in the areas you claimed, let alone exceeds him.

Were you asking me to provide feats for Bucky this whole time? I thought you were asking another poster. Oh well. So basically you want me to provide a feat that will prove that Bucky can catch a bullet? Has Bucky ever tried to catch a bullet in his movie? If not, I suppose I cant provide one for you.

Lets flip to the other side. Provide me proof Ozy can withstand a punch to the face from Buckys robotic arm. See how this works?

ABC logic actually works in this thread. Ozy beat up a couple of weak sauce street levelers while Bucky went toe to toe with Captain America who is leagues above Ozy. Seems clear to me.

Bucky wins.

Originally posted by tkitna
Were you asking me to provide feats for Bucky this whole time? I thought you were asking another poster. Oh well. So basically you want me to provide a feat that will prove that Bucky can catch a bullet? Has Bucky ever tried to catch a bullet in his movie? If not, I suppose I cant provide one for you.

Lets flip to the other side. Provide me proof Ozy can withstand a punch to the face from Buckys robotic arm. See how this works?

ABC logic actually works in this thread. Ozy beat up a couple of weak sauce street levelers while Bucky went toe to toe with Captain America who is leagues above Ozy. Seems clear to me.

Bucky wins.

Then I accept your concession on fronts. I heard all this talk about Bucky has superior feats, and that is a flat out lie. He doesn't, and in fact, it's not close. Don't think I haven't noticed anybody unable to provide the feats.

Nice try, no I'm not asking you to show me a feat of him catching a bullet. Don't need 2 ask that. Though he had opportunity to do so, and didn't So there's always that. Regardless, you just need to provide a feat of speed/reaction that EXCEED what I posted. It needs to exceed since you believe Bucky is faster and has better reactions. So it needs to exceed. However, I'll let you start with match. Show me a speed or reaction feat for Bucky that makes Ozy's. Same goes for all the feats I asked about. All you need to do is provide feats that equal or exceed. Should be no issue since you think WS dominates. Now before you tuck tail and dodge, like you have been doing, he doesn't have to do the exact same thing.. just comparable. Should be easy. I didn't think I needed to explain that it didn't need to be identical, only exceed it or match it in it own way. Jesus, is this your first time discussing stuff? Well I know it's not, but whatever.

Let's keep it simple. Ozy has better speed feats and Cap has better strength feats.

Originally posted by FrothByte
Let's keep it simple. Ozy has better speed feats and Cap has better strength feats.

I would agree on reaction feats, better speed feats is pushing it tbh

Originally posted by FrothByte
Let's keep it simple. Ozy has better speed feats and Cap has better strength feats.

To be fair, WS and Cap have demonstrated better fighting speed.

Originally posted by FrothByte
Let's keep it simple. Ozy has better speed feats and Cap has better strength feats.

Of course he has better speed, and agility and reactions. That goes without saying. Bucky, not Cap, has nothing comparable, let alone exceeds it.

Strength, again, Ozy has superior feats as a whole. Bucky doesn't get Cap's feats. Doesn't work that way. That said, I will concede that he gets credit, by proxy, for his fights with Cap. Clearly Cap was strong even then. So he does get credit. However, he gets no credit for any feat or comparison from anything after WS. It's my opinion, as well as some others (some disagree as well), that Cap has improved his strength. We see it. There is a natural progression. Just as there would be for anybody. Just because your born with x genetics, does mean you'll be the same as somebody with the same exact genetics. You can always , and would alwaus be able to improve your results through experience and training. Always. Therefore we can't give Bucky credit for anything after WS, as we have no way to know if he can match THAT Cap. That is a no go for me. So when the argument is viewed as it should. Ozy has better feats.

Froth... you forget one very important thing... Skill. Who is more skilled h2h Ozy or Bucky?

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Then I accept your concession on fronts. I heard all this talk about Bucky has superior feats, and that is a flat out lie. He doesn't, and in fact, it's not close. Don't think I haven't noticed anybody unable to provide the feats.

Nice try, no I'm not asking you to show me a feat of him catching a bullet. Don't need 2 ask that. Though he had opportunity to do so, and didn't So there's always that. Regardless, you just need to provide a feat of speed/reaction that EXCEED what I posted. It needs to exceed since you believe Bucky is faster and has better reactions. So it needs to exceed. However, I'll let you start with match. Show me a speed or reaction feat for Bucky that makes Ozy's. Same goes for all the feats I asked about. All you need to do is provide feats that equal or exceed. Should be no issue since you think WS dominates. Now before you tuck tail and dodge, like you have been doing, he doesn't have to do the exact same thing.. just comparable. Should be easy. I didn't think I needed to explain that it didn't need to be identical, only exceed it or match it in it own way. Jesus, is this your first time discussing stuff? Well I know it's not, but whatever.

Your so lost in your own perception of things that I believe you have me confused with another poster. I never brought up the subject of speed anywhere, but oh well. Lets just say it like it is, even if Ozy is faster (which he probably is) its not like he's the Flash and WS isn't going to tag him. Hell, he was beating on Cap and Cap is far superior to Ozy. All he really needs to do is get close enough to deliver a few blows or grab him and it would be over. Ozy has no feats that would indicate he could take a beating from somebody like Bucky.

The problem lies in that some people think Ozy wont be touched at all 😬
Just because Nite Owl and Rorschach didnt land a clean hit , then Bucky wouldn't either.
Even stranger is that I actually think some people think Bucky is in the same tier as Nite Owl.
Its clear as day from the clips from their respected movies , the way they both fight their opponents, their movements, their strikes, etc all look faster, more skillful and against a more impressive opponent with the Bucky fights.

Originally posted by Inhuman
The problem lies in that some people think Ozy wont be touched at all 😬
Just because Nite Owl and Rorschach didnt land a clean hit , then Bucky wouldn't either.
Even stranger is that I actually think some people think Bucky is in the same tier as Nite Owl.
Its clear as day from the clips from their respected movies , the way they both fight their opponents, their movements, their strikes, etc all look faster, more skillful and against a more impressive opponent with the Bucky fights.

Exactly. At this point though, who cares. Everybodys stance is set in stone and nobodys going to change their mind.

Originally posted by tkitna
Exactly. At this point though, who cares. Everybodys stance is set in stone and nobodys going to change their mind.

WS wins anyway. 👆

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Of course he has better speed, and agility and reactions. That goes without saying. Bucky, not Cap, has nothing comparable, let alone exceeds it.

Strength, again, Ozy has superior feats as a whole. Bucky doesn't get Cap's feats. Doesn't work that way. That said, I will concede that he gets credit, by proxy, for his fights with Cap. Clearly Cap was strong even then. So he does get credit. However, he gets no credit for any feat or comparison from anything after WS. It's my opinion, as well as some others (some disagree as well), that Cap has improved his strength. We see it. There is a natural progression. Just as there would be for anybody. Just because your born with x genetics, does mean you'll be the same as somebody with the same exact genetics. You can always , and would alwaus be able to improve your results through experience and training. Always. Therefore we can't give Bucky credit for anything after WS, as we have no way to know if he can match THAT Cap. That is a no go for me. So when the argument is viewed as it should. Ozy has better feats.

Froth... you forget one very important thing... Skill. Who is more skilled h2h Ozy or Bucky?

As far as I know, you're the only one who thinks Cap's stats improve over time. As far as who is more skilled, then it's Cap > Bucky > Ozy.