Originally posted by Nephthys
Nah, just because it doesn't say Vader was superior doesn't mean he wasn't. The text even highlights Ben's weakness at the start.
Its not physical weakness though. Its mental weakness. Kind of similar to in the ROTS Novel when Yoda realizes he just doesn't have it in him to defeat the Sith in the traditional manner. That doesn't mean that Yoda magically dropped to a tier below Sidious though.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Mental weakness is physical weakness for Jedi though. Their abilities are heavily impacted by mindset.
Yeah I agree. But that just adds fuel to my argument. After 3 minutes of dueling Vader couldn't find a single opening in Kenobi's form even when the latter wasn't in what we'd call peak condition.
Originally posted by Lord StarkI don't think their fight was three minutes...
Yeah I agree. But that just adds fuel to my argument. After 3 minutes of dueling Vader couldn't find a single opening in Kenobi's form even when the latter wasn't in what we'd call peak condition.
On the other hand, Ahsoka actually tagged Vader a couple times and there's a good portion of off-screen fighting, so I'd definitely put that above Ben.
Originally posted by |King Joker|
I don't think their fight was three minutes...On the other hand, Ahsoka actually tagged Vader a couple times and there's a good portion of off-screen fighting, so I'd definitely put that above Ben.
First off Joker, Ahsoka's fight with Vader is MAX 2:30 and that's including a lot of dialogue. And she was on the run the whole fight. Their first tussle was roughly a minute.
Ben Kenobi and Vader fight for 3 minutes including a bit of dialogue.
Originally posted by |King Joker|
On the other hand, Ahsoka actually tagged Vader a couple times and there's a good portion of off-screen fighting, so I'd definitely put that above Ben.
She only tagged Vader twice. Once with a Force Push that didn't even floor him. A sub Kanan+Ezra showing.
And the second time when Vader was totally distracted, yet she could only cause a superficial wound.
While on the other hand if Vader so much as tried to warn the stormtroopers off against Ben he would've died:
A group of stormtroopers standing in the dock became aware of them. Vader felt rather than saw them notice the strange duel, and sensed the troopers heading toward them.
He did not wish them to interfere, but to even warn them of would take concentration that he could not afford at the moment. Should his attention falter, Obi-Wan could kill him in the blink of an eye.
—Death Star
And while Ahsoka lasted longer she was BFR'd by Vader's own merit, while Ben let Vader win.
Originally posted by Col. Valerian
She wasn't on the run. Pushed back doesn't equal to on the run. Sure, Vader had the advantage most of the fight, but Ahsoka never let him penetrate her defenses.
And... We know it's canon and all, but Vader vs. Ben has to be the stupidest even fight in all of SW.
She goes in on the offensive, Vader is taken aback at first and is TKed back. From that moment on its Vader's fight. You can tell from her strained expressions and from her back pedalling that she's fighting a losing battle.
And I agree. Vader vs. Ben makes no ****ing sense at all unless Kenobi got more powerful...like far more powerful. In fact, all the OT duels don't really make sense in the context of Vader being this GOD.
Originally posted by cs_zoltan
She only tagged Vader twice. Once with a Force Push that didn't even floor him. A sub Kanan+Ezra showing.
And the second time when Vader was totally distracted, yet she could only cause a superficial wound.While on the other hand if Vader so much as tried to warn the stormtroopers off against Ben he would've died:
A group of stormtroopers standing in the dock became aware of them. Vader felt rather than saw them notice the strange duel, and sensed the troopers heading toward them.
He did not wish them to interfere, but to even warn them of would take concentration that he could not afford at the moment. Should his attention falter, Obi-Wan could kill him in the blink of an eye.
—Death StarAnd while Ahsoka lasted longer she was BFR'd by Vader's own merit, while Ben let Vader win.
Jesus Christ, the hype.
Originally posted by Lord Stark
And... We know it's canon and all, but Vader vs. Ben has to be the stupidest even fight in all of SW.She goes in on the offensive, Vader is taken aback at first and is TKed back. From that moment on its Vader's fight. You can tell from her strained expressions and from her back pedalling that she's fighting a losing battle.
And I agree. Vader vs. Ben makes no ****ing sense at all unless Kenobi got more powerful...like far more powerful. In fact, all the OT duels don't really make sense in the context of Vader being this GOD. [/B]
Well Stark, remember what Obi-Wan said.
"Your eyes can deceive you, don't trust them."
What is seen on screen, may not be the same as what happened in-universe, were looking at it from a different perspective.
@Stark: Their fight starts at 0:32 and continues to about 0:50, then resumes at 1:02 and pauses at 1:08 - resumes at 1:13 - and then they're sort of at a standoff at 1:43 until Ben dies, though granted there was some fencing during that standoff.
So, their entire fight where they were actually dueling and shit was like a minute and a half, maybe? Definitely not three minutes. Ahsoka held out longer in an extremely high-intensity fight, actually landing blows (kick to the head, Force push, slashing his face (circumstantial as it may be) etc) and, whether or not you consider this is up to you - but they were fighting on a Sith Temple which may or may not be a DS Nexus. So, yeah.
Originally posted by cs_zoltan
I agree, Kenobi is not allowed to have good feats unless they are circumstantial.
Exactly.
No, in all seriousness. Kenobi was supposed to be old and weak (or at least not as powerful as he was before) and out of practice. His fight against Vader doesn't make sense. Even GL knows it.