Cap and Winter Soldier V Iron Man

Originally posted by HulkIsHulk
The one in the movie proper currently is plenty cringe-worthy enough for many of us 😉

Well, I didn't have major issues with it personally, but everyone is entitled to their own opinion. I enjoyed Civil War for the story, so any inconsistencies in the fights, especially considering it being a Cap film, are minor to me, and really not worth getting overly upset about. The Russos did the best they could with making the fight what it was, given what they had to work with from the previous films.

I mean what would you have preferred? Tony pitching up to the final fight in his damaged up suit from the airport battle, despite not knowing what he might face when pursuing Cap/Bucky?

Nah. I would've preferred them to use some uber weaponry from the Russian HQ to wear Tony down and actually show considerable skill superiority to counter him. Equally a copout, but would need a lot less jobbing. Not just punching and kicking hm around till he falls apart

It would have been contrived if just the weapon they needed to win conveniently happened to be in this base, which I don't think would have been better in any way. And there were other plot elements involved as well. And he didn't exactly just fall apart.

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
Yes, but did you miss the part where

Spoiler:
Winter Soldier managed to grab Stark's leg with his remaining arm, distracting him and leaving an opening, at a point where Tony had the clear advantage? Nevermind that Tony's focus, and the object of his malice, was WS. We even see him initially just trying to restrain Cap with those leg cuffs.

Fact is two-on-one, they barely pulled it off. But that is NOT any low showing. Any kind of win over Iron Man is leaps and bounds above anything the pair did in any of the previous films. As you pointed out, this is a guy who has managed to hold out against Thor.

He held up to Thor with a 400% amp.

Thor ended up crushing his hands.

Bucky almost pulled the reactor from his chest and Cap damaged it and shut it down. Which means his Arm strength >>>>Tony's armor strength.

As far as the other comment "well he can just uni beam Cap like he did Bucky."

One word: Shield.

In fact Tony did unlesh a full blast on Cap and it was negated by his shield.

Caps shield is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a million more>>>>>Buckys arm.

Guys, it's a Cap movie, of course he'll look good. Spiderman would absolutely destroy Cap with utter ease in a one v one fight. He's simply better in almost every single area.

I love how people claim Bucky and Cap are near equals. I've heard this time and time again when people give Bucky the win against people. Yet, WS was absolutely curbed with utter ease by spiderman. Yet, Cap did much better. So you guys can't have it both ways, either WS is not even really that close to Cap, or he is, and Cap beating Spiderman was blatant PIS. Well, it's blatant PIS anyways, but you'd then have to admit it.

As far as the last fight goes... against Blatant PIS and to not even be taken seriously imo. Based on IM feats from all his movies, he destroys them and easily. He's VASTLY stronger than both. He was almost at zero power and lifted a car easily and casually. he's tanking tank fire, plane fire and any number of things and been okay. Yet I'm supposed to believe Cap's punches could hurt him LMAO. Give me a break. You guys don't know PIS when you see it or what?

Lastly, even then IM won that fight. I love all the people claiming Cap beat IM... he did no such thing. He was staggered on the ground and at the mercy of IM. IM could have easily killed him in that sequence. He was on the ground and stunned. Instead of talking to Cap and asking him to stay down... he could've just continued to blast him and kill him. Then what? So because he's holding back.. gets distracted... and then Cap gains an advantage means Cap wins LMAO. Okay, sure. To say nothing of his suit was already damaged... he was damaged... and he wasn't fighting in the proper state of mind. Yet still in the end had them beat. What to know why IM wasn't fighting smart? Easy

Notice how he finally decides to have the computer study Cap's style... WTF... IM is a genius.. a super genius. Leagues ahead of Cap in intelligence. Yet, he decided to analyze his style after he's already taking a beating? Right... the unquestionably shows he wasn't fighting smart. Once he did that, he utterly curbed Cap.

Somebody explain to me how Cap wins if IM is fighting smart... not in a confined area.. suit is damaged as well as him. What does Cap do when Tony, thinking properly, instantly goes... figure out his fighting style like he should have. What then? Somebody please tell me

Cap/Bucky win...

Cap obviously solos as well

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Guys, it's a Cap movie, of course he'll look good. Spiderman would absolutely destroy Cap with utter ease in a one v one fight. He's simply better in almost every single area.

I love how people claim Bucky and Cap are near equals. I've heard this time and time again when people give Bucky the win against people. Yet, WS was absolutely curbed with utter ease by spiderman. Yet, Cap did much better. So you guys can't have it both ways, either WS is not even really that close to Cap, or he is, and Cap beating Spiderman was blatant PIS. Well, it's blatant PIS anyways, but you'd then have to admit it.

As far as the last fight goes... against Blatant PIS and to not even be taken seriously imo. Based on IM feats from all his movies, he destroys them and easily. He's VASTLY stronger than both. He was almost at zero power and lifted a car easily and casually. he's tanking tank fire, plane fire and any number of things and been okay. Yet I'm supposed to believe Cap's punches could hurt him LMAO. Give me a break. You guys don't know PIS when you see it or what?

Lastly, even then IM won that fight. I love all the people claiming Cap beat IM... he did no such thing. He was staggered on the ground and at the mercy of IM. IM could have easily killed him in that sequence. He was on the ground and stunned. Instead of talking to Cap and asking him to stay down... he could've just continued to blast him and kill him. Then what? So because he's holding back.. gets distracted... and then Cap gains an advantage means Cap wins LMAO. Okay, sure. To say nothing of his suit was already damaged... he was damaged... and he wasn't fighting in the proper state of mind. Yet still in the end had them beat. What to know why IM wasn't fighting smart? Easy

Notice how he finally decides to have the computer study Cap's style... WTF... IM is a genius.. a super genius. Leagues ahead of Cap in intelligence. Yet, he decided to analyze his style after he's already taking a beating? Right... the unquestionably shows he wasn't fighting smart. Once he did that, he utterly curbed Cap.

Somebody explain to me how Cap wins if IM is fighting smart... not in a confined area.. suit is damaged as well as him. What does Cap do when Tony, thinking properly, instantly goes... figure out his fighting style like he should have. What then? Somebody please tell me

Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
He held up to Thor with a 400% amp.

Thor ended up crushing his hands.

Bucky almost pulled the reactor from his chest and Cap damaged it and shut it down. Which means his Arm strength >>>>Tony's armor strength.

As far as the other comment "well he can just uni beam Cap like he did Bucky."

One word: Shield.

In fact Tony did unlesh a full blast on Cap and it was negated by his shield.

Caps shield is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a million more>>>>>Buckys arm.

He was not amped for that entire fight. Also, extra power makes his systems run better. It does not spontaneously make the metal of his suit more durable. And nope. He did not crush Iron Man's "hands", he started crushing the wrist of one gauntlet, and got shot in the face IIRC.

Bucky tried, did some damage to the metal around it (but nothing that affected suit functionality), and then got his arm shot off. And he was physically straining hard. Rhodey and Tony have fired their repulsors directly at each other and sustained less damage from the resulting explosion. Iron Man also had an injured left arm in the Civil War final fight to boot, which would affect his ability to fully use his strength on that side too. So no idea where this >>>> is coming from.

Yes, because the shield helped him to not get hit every single time he actually did get hit in the film. Hell, when Tony grabbed his shield right at the end, instead of going for H2H, he could have unibeamed him right there. Cap was wide open. And please don't pretend that he wasn't, or Tony wouldn't even have landed an H2H hit.

I think the way the fight was done in Civil War was good. I don't have any complaints about how Cap and WS were able to keep up with IM. But that obviously was very dependent on a lot of circumstance.

If IM was going for the kill, he'd beat Cap and WS, though I'm sure the 2 would make him work a bit for it.

Yeah, I personally don't get why some people are having such big issues with it. Tony was physically injured, emotionally compromised, was fighting in an enclosed environment, and seemed less interested in seriously hurting Cap compared to getting him out of the way, so that he could go after Bucky (who in turn got messed up badly). Plus they both got an Amp for this movie. So, all things considered, I think the fight was reasonable within the context of the film.

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
Yeah, I personally don't get why some people are having such big issues with it. Tony was physically injured, emotionally compromised, was fighting in an enclosed environment, and seemed less interested in seriously hurting Cap compared to getting him out of the way, so that he could go after Bucky (who in turn got messed up badly). Plus they both got an Amp for this movie. So, all things considered, I think the fight was reasonable within the context of the film.

Yeah, I thought it was properly done. I have more issues with the Ironman vs. Thor fight. After all, the strength/power difference between IM and Thor should be as vast as the strength/power difference between Capand IM. But at least when Cap fought IM he had Bucky to help him out, plus IM was injured plus he was in a disadvantageous environment plus he chose to engage in h2h plus his systems were getting damaged.

There were no such circumstances in the Thor vs IM fight. Sure he had 400% power, but that's still no excuse for how long he lasted against Thor.

Originally posted by FrothByte
There were no such circumstances in the Thor vs IM fight. Sure he had 400% power, but that's still no excuse for how long he lasted against Thor.

Have you read Thor the Dark World Prelude? In that comic, Odin explained that harnessing Dark Energy was both dangerous to him and Thor. But it was mostly dangerous to Thor since he would end up dead if not done properly. The comic showed Thor was unconscious when he ended up on Earth. Its possible he wasn't fully recovered when he faced Ironman based on how Odin stated the dangers of harnessing Dark Energies.

It's simple, Iron-man fans have no problem when he fights guys that are out of his weight class, however they do have a problem when the roles are reversed.

Saying "Iron Man fans" in general is not exactly fair. I like Iron Man, but I didn't have any major issues with the final fight.

Originally posted by FrothByte
Yeah, I thought it was properly done. I have more issues with the Ironman vs. Thor fight. After all, the strength/power difference between IM and Thor should be as vast as the strength/power difference between Capand IM. But at least when Cap fought IM he had Bucky to help him out, plus IM was injured plus he was in a disadvantageous environment plus he chose to engage in h2h plus his systems were getting damaged.

There were no such circumstances in the Thor vs IM fight. Sure he had 400% power, but that's still no excuse for how long he lasted against Thor.

Originally posted by Silent Master
It's simple, Iron-man fans have no problem when he fights guys that are out of his weight class, however they do have a problem when the roles are reversed.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Guys, it's a Cap movie, of course he'll look good. Spiderman would absolutely destroy Cap with utter ease in a one v one fight. He's simply better in almost every single area.

I love how people claim Bucky and Cap are near equals. I've heard this time and time again when people give Bucky the win against people. Yet, WS was absolutely curbed with utter ease by spiderman. Yet, Cap did much better. So you guys can't have it both ways, either WS is not even really that close to Cap, or he is, and Cap beating Spiderman was blatant PIS. Well, it's blatant PIS anyways, but you'd then have to admit it.

👆

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi

Somebody explain to me how Cap wins if IM is fighting smart... not in a confined area.. suit is damaged as well as him.

Even War Machine would trash Cap in that scenario.

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
He was not amped for that entire fight. Also, extra power makes his systems run better. It does not spontaneously make the metal of his suit more durable. And nope. He did not crush Iron Man's "hands", he started crushing the wrist of one gauntlet, and got shot in the face IIRC.

Bucky tried, did some damage to the metal around it (but nothing that affected suit functionality), and then got his arm shot off. And he was physically straining hard. Rhodey and Tony have fired their repulsors directly at each other and sustained less damage from the resulting explosion. Iron Man also had an injured left arm in the Civil War final fight to boot, which would affect his ability to fully use his strength on that side too. So no idea where this >>>> is coming from.

Yes, because the shield helped him to not get hit every single time he actually did get hit in the film. Hell, when Tony grabbed his shield right at the end, instead of going for H2H, he could have unibeamed him right there. Cap was wide open. And please don't pretend that he wasn't, or Tony wouldn't even have landed an H2H hit.

Ironman was amped the entire fight. This is undeniable.

I didn't say it made his suit more durable, you are not understanding. I said Thor crushed his hand, and Bucky's arm is >>>>Tonys armor strength.

The fact is his hand was penetrating the armor. It also held up to Vibranium claws.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi

I love how people claim Bucky and Cap are near equals. I've heard this time and time again when people give Bucky the win against people. Yet, WS was absolutely curbed with utter ease by spiderman. Yet, Cap did much better. So you guys can't have it both ways, either WS is not even really that close to Cap, or he is, and Cap beating Spiderman was blatant PIS. Well, it's blatant PIS anyways, but you'd then have to admit it.

Where did I say Bucky was Cap's equal? Please quote because that is not the case at all.

Cap>Spiderman>WS

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
Saying "Iron Man fans" in general is not exactly fair. I like Iron Man, but I didn't have any major issues with the final fight.

Cap is above almost every single person besides Vision, Thor, Hulk and Wanda (hacks) now.

At this point I could see him kicking Loki's dumbass now.

Tony could prolly take Cap on a open battlefield but I doubt that even now as they already fought on one at the airport and he beat Spidermans ass. I just dont see him losing anymore, hes to fast, strong and agile and that shield can stop anything Ironman throws at him.

IM won until WS distracted him from finishing Cap. A WS who IM though was already down. And this all in an indoor scenario.

So in no way, shape or form was it even hinted Cap has a chance against IM 1 v 1.

Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
Ironman was amped the entire fight. This is undeniable.

I didn't say it made his suit more durable, you are not understanding. I said Thor crushed his hand, and Bucky's arm is >>>>Tonys armor strength.

The fact is his hand was penetrating the armor. It also held up to Vibranium claws.

Yes, it is very much deniable, considering the first few blows of that fight occurred before Thor shot lightning at Tony, including Tony kicking Thor through a tree.

And I still do not see how Bucky being able to cause some superficial damage to Tony before getting his arm shot off means it is stronger than Tony's armour's strength levels. Even Bucky's attempt to crush his gauntlet didn't really do much, considering that repulsor was still working later on. All it means is that his arm is strong enough to damage the armour. Just like Tony is very much capable of hurting either Cap or Bucky.

Yet none of that stopped it getting blown off by a single unibeam blast.