Originally posted by The Ellimist
BTW, it's unclear to me why people think Vader and Sidious have some level of parity in the new canon. Is old Ben Kenobi a match for Palpatine now?
Well it's confirmed Rebels Vader > LOTS Vader > ROTS Vader > Count Dooku. So imagine giving ROTS Dooku 3 significant power ups, it's not hard to imagine he would at least be close to ROTS Palpatine.
Vader's TK feats in the new Star Wars comics are the greatest we've seen from any Jedi/Sith in Canon.
Also there's the source book that places Vader above Palpatine in Sabers. Not sure if I buy that, but it just adds to the idea of Vader/Palpatine being closer to peers than Vader easily being Palpatine's b****.
The Kenobi fight is an inconsistency, due to Lucas not really having an idea of power levels at that point. But I think we can safely assume 2 things when relating that in the new Canon:
1. ANH Kenobi > ROTS Kenobi
2. Vader would have solidly defeated Kenobi had that fight continued.
Remember Rebels Maul states he's no match for Vader, so unless you think ANH Kenobi > Rebels Maul, Vader was clearly going to win that fight.
Originally posted by Darth Thor
Well it's confirmed Rebels Vader > LOTS Vader > ROTS Vader > Count Dooku.
As a lightsaber duelist?
So if Dooku was given 3 significant power ups I'm sure he would at least be close to ROTS Palpatine.
Not necessarily. Palpatine is significantly above Dooku (see how helpless pre-vaapad Windu is).
Vader's TK feats in the new Star Wars comics are the greatest we've seen from any Jedi/Sith in Canon.
Yeah, but we don't really see Sidious in situations that would require him to use telekinesis extensively. We do see Sidious effortlessly ragdolling Maul + Oppress, and can contrast this to Vader being tagged by Kanan/Erza and contested by Ahsoka.
Seriously: could you imagine Kanan and Erza Force pushing Palpatine into an AT-ST? 😆
Also there's the source book that places Vader above Palpatine in Sabers. Not sure if I buy that, but it just adds to the idea of Vader/Palpatine being closer to peers than Vader easily being Palpatine's b****.
Yeah...that's sort of like Legend Anoon's "second to none" saber abilities.
Maybe Palpatine's skills with a blade had since declined.
The Kenobi fight is an inconsistency, due to Lucas not really having an idea of power levels at that point.
And what of Vader's fight with Ahsoka? Do you think Ahsoka would have lasted more than 10 seconds against Sidious?
But I think we can safely assume 2 things when relating that in the new Canon:1. ANH Kenobi > ROTS Kenobi
2. Vader would have solidly defeated Kenobi had that fight continued.
Except that the movie-novels are still canon, and describe the two at an impasse.
Remember Rebels Maul states he's no match for Vader, so unless you think ANH Kenobi > Rebels Maul, Vader was clearly going to win that fight.
I could buy that ANH Kenobi > Rebels Maul, and that Kenobi got stronger between the trilogies. I don't buy that the guy who gets Force pushed by Ahsoka can match the guy that made Yoda flee.
^ I thought I already explained Beni.. He fought off Vader. ROTS Kenobi gets stomped by Dooku.
Originally posted by The Ellimist
As a lightsaber duelist?
All out, formidability/Power.
Originally posted by The Ellimist
Not necessarily. Palpatine is significantly above Dooku (see how helpless pre-vaapad Windu is).
And like I said Dooku would require 3 significant power ups to be Vader's equal. Not 1, not 2, but 3.
Originally posted by The Ellimist
Yeah, but we don't really see Sidious in situations that would require him to use telekinesis extensively. We do see Sidious effortlessly ragdolling Maul + Oppress, and can contrast this to Vader being tagged by Kanan/Erza and contested by Ahsoka.
Well looking at how Vader's TK feats outstrip Maul's and Opress's by a laughable amount, I see no reason Vader couldn't do that to TCW Maul + Opress.
Originally posted by The Ellimist
Seriously: could you imagine Kanan and Erza Force pushing Palpatine into an AT-ST? 😆
No need to lowball. He was caught off guard. They were both horribly outmatched.
Originally posted by The Ellimist
Yeah...that's sort of like Legend Anoon's "second to none" saber abilities.Maybe Palpatine's skills with a blade had since declined.
Nope, because it doesn't refer to 1 specific time period, given both Dooku and Vader are on the list.
Originally posted by The Ellimist
And what of Vader's fight with Ahsoka? Do you think Ahsoka would have lasted more than 10 seconds against Sidious?
Sure, if Ahsoka's Dooku level, then why not?
Originally posted by The Ellimist
Except that the movie-novels are still canon, and describe the two at an impasse.
The OT novels are horribly outdated. Unless you think Owen and Ben are still brothers.
Originally posted by The Ellimist
I could buy that ANH Kenobi > Rebels Maul, and that Kenobi got stronger between the trilogies. I don't buy that the guy who gets Force pushed by Ahsoka can match the guy that made Yoda flee.
Like I said, depends how Powerful Ahsoka is. People on the Rebels team like FPJ seem to think she's like the 3rd or 4th most powerful Jedi of all time.
To be honest, Disney had a golden opportunity to rewrite Star Wars history and rectify the faults of Legends content in the process.
Unfortunately, newer canon content is even worse then the content it is supposedly replacing...
The current authors are (blindly) making Darth Vader look too powerful; a time will come when they will find it really difficult to explore and hype ancient characters. And then fans will have a new set of inconsistencies to deal with. We are already getting some.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenDa time will come when they will find it really difficult to explore and hype ancient characters. And then fans will have a new set of inconsistencies to deal with. We are already getting some.
Why is that?
Although given The Force and Vader being the Chosen One, I've always felt that his power be hampered by mere machinery to be rather silly.
Sure to a degree I could see that his power needs to be degraded(not reaching his potential doesn't mean he can't grow in power, because where does this potential cap off at?), but still he should be solidly in the top 5 Force Users in the Mythos.