Originally posted by Digi
People like to move the goalposts with Cersei. They were saying she wasn't a long game player bc she lost King's Landing. Now she has KL, and she isn't thinking far enough ahead to keep the throne.She doesn't have much of a head start, but she has the throne and no immediate opposition. And it's not like she didn't have a LOT of people in direct opposition to her. There were missteps, sure, but it was always an uphill battle. No one has kept the throne for long - Joffrey's in the lead at about 2 seasons and 1 episode - so I'm not really sure it's a knock. Tywin was my favorite character in the show by a fair margin, but Cersei lived up to his name. The debts were f*cking paid this episode, if nothing else.
People don't think much of Cersei because she's probably the stupidest person in the books outside of Ned and Theon. The most enjoyable thing about Feast for Crows is how she completely fails on every level the second she gets power, goes completely insane and becomes a fat, drunk rapist. All while gleefully congratulating herself and comparing herself to Tywin. It's hysterical. Even Littlefinger is amazed at how incompetent she turned out to be. Its hard to see her in the show without that characterisation at the front of your mind.
The show does have a pretty big boner for her and she's been made far more formidable and sympathetic than she really has any right to be imo. Still, her revenge cost her her only remaining child and she's triple-****ed when Dany comes in to rape her easily. She screwed her families only chance at remaining in power and everything is ultimately she own damn fault in the first place. She's the Mad King with ****.
Originally posted by Arachnid1
Agreed. Another thing to note is that she basically just made her own Castamere. She completely wiped out the line of House Tyrell. They have no future.
Nah, there are cousins and uncles and other family members who can take over from the main House I think.
Let's see
The North is rallying behind Jon(instead of Sansa, for reasons).
The Vale is as well, for reasons.
The Riverlanders have been betrayed twice now so they should logically go to Sansa Jon too.
The Dornish have been in open rebellion for an entire season and no one cares. They now seem to be backing Dany, who did nothing to earn their support.
The Tyrells have every reason in the world to hate the Lannisters and now back Dany, who again did nothing to earn their loyalty. This is not a Castamere situation because Marg mentions a cousin who has children of her own.
The Stormlanders have no reason to support Cersei as all the Baratheons are dead and any of Cersei's kids would be Lannisters effectively.
The Westerlands should betray Cersei immediately for killing her uncle, cousin, and son(for all they know).
The common people should hate Cersei for her continued neglect and for nuking the Great Sept of Baelor.
Cersei is by far the weakest person to ever sit the Iron Throne and I can almost guarantee she sits it until episode 9 or 10 because this show is stupid and will continue to throw all that delicious money into the last two episodes.
Dorne and the Tyrells arent backing Dany. Pretty sure they dont give a shit about her claims to the thrown, theyre simply along for the ride because their common enemy happens to be the same as the people Dany wants to remove from the thrown. At best, it's a mutually beneficial temporary alliance.
Also, mot sure why ur questioning the backing of Jon over Sansa when u should use the same "for what reason" stance you used against Dany... Jon has exploits under his belt. What the hell has Sansa done to earn any support over Jon, other than being a legitimate heir of Eddard?
The interesting thing will be if the north pulls their supprt of Jon after they find out Bran is still alive.
Originally posted by MF DELPHdefinitely not. Tommen let his own mother literally get shit thrown on her as she was publicly shamed... He was also going to let her die, and he let his wife be tortured. Tommen is by far the biggest b*tch in this series. A feckless figurehead would be a generous thing to call him.
You think Cersei's weaker than Tommen?
Originally posted by marwash22He's also a 12 year old
definitely not. Tommen let him own mother literally get shit thrown on her as she was publicly shamed... He was also going to let her die, and he let his wife be tortured. Tommen is by far the biggest b*tch in this series. A feckless figurehead would be a generous thing to call him.
Originally posted by marwash2212 year olds are immature idiots. The problem wasn't with Tommen, it was with the people around him. If his advisors had an inch of sense they would've steered him away from the high sparrow and towards military action
12 year old joffrey would have unleashed the mountain and had the sparrow flayed for the masses to see.His age doesnt negate his bitchassness
Originally posted by marwash22
definitely not. Tommen let his own mother literally get shit thrown on her as she was publicly shamed... He was also going to let her die, and he let his wife be tortured. Tommen is by far the biggest b*tch in this series. A feckless figurehead would be a generous thing to call him.
Ser Pounce had more heart.
Originally posted by marwash22
Dorne and the Tyrells arent backing Dany. Pretty sure they dont give a shit about her claims to the thrown, theyre simply along for the ride because their common enemy happens to be the same as the people Dany wants to remove from the thrown. At best, it's a mutually beneficial temporary alliance.Also, mot sure why ur questioning the backing of Jon over Sansa when u should use the same "for what reason" stance you used against Dany... Jon has exploits under his belt. What the hell has Sansa done to earn any support over Jon, other than being a legitimate heir of Eddard?
The interesting thing will be if the north pulls their supprt of Jon after they find out Bran is still alive.
The fact that they don't care about Dany ascending the throne doesn't change the fact that they're 100% supporting her. What are they going to do? Rebel as soon as they place her on the throne and sacrifice their armies?
Sansa got the backing of the Vale. That is what won them the battle. What has Jon done except abandoned the Wall and let a bunch of Wildlings, who have destroyed entire villages in the North, through it? He didn't rally the Mormonts, Davos did that. He didn't really care about rallying all the houses as that was more of Sansa's plan. He should be a traitor to everything the North stands for but he gets to be King while Sansa, Ned's legit heir and the cousin of the Lord of the Vale, gets nothing. She is an idiot through and through but she has unquestionably done more to get rid of the Boltons than Jon, who almost lost to the Boltons.
Originally posted by MF DELPH
You think Cersei's weaker than Tommen?
Unquestionably. He had the Tyrell's through Marg, the Stormlands through his "father" Robert, the Lannisters through his mom, and the support of the Sparrows. The fact that he was basically a useless tool doesn't change the fact that his army is bigger. The fact that Cersei has more strength of character is 100% meaningless. She cannot hold the throne in any capacity after what she's done. Looking at it objectively, who is supporting her? A guy with an army of children, a zombie who doesn't have a choice, and the Lannister army I guess, even though she is a kinslayer. And the Lannister army isn't even that strong after Robb/Stannis took huge bites out of them while Dorne/the Reach are daisy fresh.
So wait I thought the Vale was still on LittleFinger's beck and call despite the whole rall thing that they had going on. Also does anyone really know that Sansa was the one that got the Vale to save Jon's forces during BastardBowl besides Davos and Littlefinger? Speaking of which doesn't Sansa admitting that it was dumb to not tell Jon about them make her almost as at fault for Jon nearly loosing to the Boltons?
However I guess none of this really matters due to the impending horde of ice zombies coming through.
Originally posted by marwash22
definitely not. Tommen let his own mother literally get shit thrown on her as she was publicly shamed... He was also going to let her die, and he let his wife be tortured. Tommen is by far the biggest b*tch in this series. A feckless figurehead would be a generous thing to call him.
Tommen was personally weak, but his position was still stronger than Cersei's since the Tyrells, Lannisters, Stormlands and Sparrows were his nominal allies and he basically ruled unchallenged. While Cersei probably has more authority in an immediate sense, she's about to get buttfvcked by literally all of Westeros combined.