Understanding Exar Kun's spirit.

Started by AncientPower9 pages

Getting me nowhere, but gain support from almost everybody here, bar yourself and Gideon(one guess why that is).

Firstly you're contradicting yourself and sources, how can Kun harness unlimited power because he isn't mortal, and be somehow more powerful due to this via Kyp Durron despite Kun requiring his 'lost reserves of energy'(JA Sourcebook) to resurrect himself in human form, which would be accomplished by 'draining Luke and the other trainees'(JvsS).

I.E. Kyp, Gantoris and Streen combined weren't capable of restoring those energies, he required Luke's energy and the energy of his dozen students to achieve his intended resurrection, which is accomplished by regaining his lost reserves of energy.

So... he is somehow beyond his capabilities as a mortal, but lacks the power he needs to resurrect, which is accomplished by regaining his lost reserves of energy? There's a break in logic here and it sure as hell isn't on my end.

I have provided proof that for him to return, which is what he'd been trying to accomplish the entire trilogy, he would have to restore the Force energy reserves he had when he was alive. Which Kyp wasn't enough for, you know when Tom Veitch confirms he was at his most powerful, living.

I mean you use the statement 'the full might of Kyp Durron' as if it's a settlement on the issue, when it clearly isn't Beni, learned nothing have you?

Kyp Durron was being amplified by Exar Kun's power, which made his own power focused by a temple, comparatively feeble:

He reached out with his mind, following the paths of the Force that led to every object in the universe, drawing power from the cosmic focal point of the Massassi temple. He searched, sending his thoughts like a probe deep into the storm systems of the gas giant. Behind him, Kyp felt the black-ice power of Exar Kun arise, tapping into him and reinforcing his abilities. His own feeble exploratory touch suddenly plunged forward like a blaster bolt.
-Jedi Academy Volume 3 Champions of the Force

fee·ble

ˈfēbəl/

Synonyms: weak,_weakly,_weakened,_frail,_infirm, delicate,_sickly,_ailing,_unwell,_poorly, enfeebled,_enervated,_debilitated, incapacitated,_decrepit,_etiolated.

The 'full might of Kyp Durron', is feeble, frail, and delicate, compared to the power afforded him by Exar Kun.

As Corran Horn states, Exar Kun was exhausted by the effort, not Kyp Durron.

Infact, Exar Kun's supposed limitless capacity, isn't very limitless whatsoever:

Kun finds Gantoris, strong-willed and impatient to learn, to be a more promising first candidate. He easily seduces Gantoris in the same manner that Nadd had seduced him—by promising forbidden knowledge and the truly powerful Jedi secrets Gantoris cannot wait to learn. Carefully building up and feeding on the anger of his first apprentice, Kun grows in power. Soon he feels confident to make an attempt to subvert Luke, knowing that if he can sway the teacher, the students will all follow. Kun, posing as Anakin Skywalker, appears to Luke and attempts to pull him toward the forbidden Sith teachings by tempting hi to use Sith power to seize control of the New Republic and destroy the Empire. Realizing that this shade is not that of his father, Luke rejects the offer.
Enraged and drained, Kun returns to Gantoris. Desperate for more energy, he goads Gantoris to new heights of anger by showing him the Eol Sha colonists dying on Dantooine. Gantoris is pushed too far, however, and turns on his Sith master. Realizing that Gantoris is no longer his, Kun utterly drains him to provide himself a reserve of energy to last until he can subvert more students.
-Jedi Academy Sourcebook

So any attempt to influence the physical realm exhausts his energies almost instantly, he is never this limitless spirit that can weild unlimited energy. He is a Sith spirit and can return to physical form by regaining his lost reserves of energy.

Those lost reserves of energy not being somehow increased by the ritual either, the energy fueled the ritual and allowed him to become a spirit, he was going to 'run rampant' across the cosmos but Nomi sensed what he was attempting, the ensuing Wall of Light trapped him in the temples, which he used to survive and maintain his will without being dragged into the void.

I find it humorous at best, that you claim to have debunked anything, when it simply appears that you're ignoring statements and speculating as to why you're correct.

You point to Exar Kun shedding his chains and mortal coil, but ignore that it immediately follows with his ability to traverse the cosmos. As in he can move around the galaxy without mortal restraints. When it states he became one with the dark side, it means he died and became one with the Dark Side, not achieved some unlimited power.

If you have any actual substantial proof going against the already confirmed power levels of Kun's spirit, aid or no, and how it relates to Kun's powers as a living Sith Lord, which I've provided repeatedly, then state them.

On the duel with Ulic, unless you have actual evidence that they were using Force powers, rather than what is stated to be a pure contest of swordsmanship, provide it. More speculation won't get you anywhere, Kun is famous for his need to prove himself against his peers, something he did here.

Regarding your hilarious misinterpretation of my alchemic statement, it isn't that alchemy made Exar Kun more powerful, it is that he'd grown extremely powerful by the time he had resumed his alchemical practices on Yavin IV, which is exactly what happens in the story.

Kun starts practicing alchemy, creating the Massassi Abominations and the construction of a large network of temples, finishing Naga Sadow's incomllete works. But Kun decides to take the Corsair to deal with Ulic and Aleema, they join forces, Kun goes to Ossus and kills Odan-Urr, he takes in it's knowledge and becomes more powerful. He then converts the Jedi students by unleashing the spirits in the holocron whilst on Yavin IV, thus starts the assassination attempts on the Jedi Masters, Kun rescues Ulic from Coruscant. Kun then returns to Yavin IV and resumes his alchemical creations.

Comprende esse?

Seriously, unless you have something beyond your own speculation on cherry-picked information, then this isn't going to go anywhere. You're proving nothing whilst I provide statements supporting exactly what I've stated.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Listen dude, I can tolerate some attitude but I have little tolerance for sheer ignorance or deliberate attempt to overlook provided evidence.

Read this:

Like the first Encyclopedia, the in-fantasy conceit of this one is that it has been compiled by some omniscient committee of historians and scholars taking a look back over tens of thousands of years of galactic history.

Taken from [B]Star Wars: The Complete Encyclopedia [/B]

And had it not been said that this was written by “some omniscient committee” you may have a point here. So while you are correct that it is written in-universe you are incorrect that it is fallible. So we are still at the same place. Your source is fallible; mine is not.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Why would they not be aware of Exar Kun? They had access to the Force and could sense profound disturbances or even experience visions. They could also dispatch agents to determine causes of disturbances.

Exar Kun would be a well-known figure throughout the galaxy. TOR era sources touch his story time and again.

How would Darth Nyriss know that Revan was powerful and extremely dangerous? Tell me?

Probably because Revan actually came into contact with the Sith Empire…

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
You understand the meaning of the word "strength," right?

Karness Muur transformed stormtroopers into Rakghouls because there presence would be problematic. Afterwards, the former would find it easier to contend with Darth Vader [1 on 1] and tackle him. Darth Vader's retreat from the scene implies that he was not going to take his chances against Karness Muur. Simple.

Except this is nowhere stated or implied. Especially since he wasn’t fighting Muur but rather Morne and as we already saw she had no chance against him 1 v 1. But you are right, it is simple. Morne used Muur’s power to turn the Stormtroopers into Rakghouls to drive Vader back…

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
I understand the meaning of that word, but ignoring the entire statement for the sake of semantics makes sense?

Historians and Scholars, period.

Omniscient. Period.

AP, the text says Kyp's "exploratory touch" was feeble. Kun simply reinforced his cautious groping and shoved him forward. Contextually, that refers to his delicate search... Not a side by side comparison of their full powers.

His touch was comparatively feeble until the 'black-ice power' of Kun reinforced his abilities and he found the Suncrusher almost instantly, then Kyp is stated to use Kun's power to telekinetically pilot the vessel down to the temple, before Kun's powers allowed him to dominate Luke Skywalker.

It is all stated in JAT and JAS, it is repeatedly reinforced that it was Kun aiding Kyp who dominated Luke, literally, that Kun's power allowed him to triumph over Luke.

Kun's shade was exhausted by the effort of both feats back-to-back, even Horn who got wrecked by Kun first-hand, says he has no idea why Kun wasn't much more active afterwards. Even whilst knowing that Kun had nearly killed his fellow trainees, despite this apparent dormancy, the only explanation being that Kun had been exhausted by his earlier efforts.

Because maybe Kun's power allowed Kyp to use his? Just a thought.

Or that Kun's powers allowed Kyp to do everything Kyp accomplished, which is what is stated to have been the case in official sources.

Which are not mutually exclusive. 😬

Yeah, no one here is denying that Kun played a huge role in conquering Luke. But that excerpt in no way, shape, or form means anything other than Kyp being pretty delicate in his first major psychic exploration and Kun kicking it into high gear.

If anything, you're the one who's denying Kyp's participation. Beni has that covered.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Getting me nowhere, but gain support from almost everybody here, bar yourself and Gideon(one guess why that is).
😂 That delusional huh?
Firstly you're contradicting yourself and sources, how can Kun harness unlimited power because he isn't mortal, and be somehow more powerful due to this via Kyp Durron despite Kun requiring his 'lost reserves of energy'(JA Sourcebook) to resurrect himself in human form, which would be accomplished by 'draining Luke and the other trainees'(JvsS).

I.E. Kyp, Gantoris and Streen combined weren't capable of restoring those energies, he required Luke's energy and the energy of his dozen students to achieve his intended resurrection, which is accomplished by regaining his lost reserves of energy.

So... he is somehow beyond his capabilities as a mortal, but lacks the power he needs to resurrect, which is accomplished by regaining his lost reserves of energy? There's a break in logic here and it sure as hell isn't on my end.

Goodness. We've gone over this already, first of all nobody said anything about Kun being able to harness unlimited power, merely that there are no limits to the power he could accrue, or at least an excess of what he prior possessed, given the time and resources.

Seriously do you need an analogy? Imagine you have a 2 litre bucket, filled with 2 litres of water. Now introduce another bucket, that has the capacity of 3 litres, but it is empty. The first bucket has more water in it, but it remains a fact that the second bucket has the capacity to hold more water. Clear? Because I won't be repeating myself again. 🙂

And as an addendum, I've already debunked the idea that Kun needed all Luke's students to restore his lost power, see my OP.

I have provided proof that for him to return, which is what he'd been trying to accomplish the entire trilogy, he would have to restore the Force energy reserves he had when he was alive.

Which Kyp wasn't enough for, you know when Tom Veitch confirms he was at his most powerful, living.

Yes and you continue to ignore that he'd need an excess of his former power to permanently restore his lost Force reserves. How long are you going to pretend creating a dark side avatar costs nothing to perform?
I mean you use the statement 'the full might of Kyp Durron' as if it's a settlement on the issue, when it clearly isn't Beni, learned nothing have you?

Kyp Durron was being amplified by Exar Kun's power, which made his own power focused by a temple, comparatively feeble:

The 'full might of Kyp Durron', is feeble, frail, and delicate, compared to the power afforded him by Exar Kun.

No, Kyp's sensory abilities are "feeble" in comparison to what he was able to accomplish with Kun's help, namely, to help him unlock his own power. Nowhere is he described in general, or specifically in terms of his sense powers, feeble, in direct comparison to Kun, but rather what they accomplished together. Nor can we really assume its not more mastery than raw strength that's being referred to.
As Corran Horn states, Exar Kun was exhausted by the effort, not Kyp Durron.
Right, because Kyp's powers naturally replenish, whereas Kun's do not.
Infact, Exar Kun's supposed limitless capacity, isn't very limitless whatsoever

So any attempt to influence the physical realm exhausts his energies almost instantly, he is never this limitless spirit that can weild unlimited energy. He is a Sith spirit and can return to physical form by regaining his lost reserves of energy.

That doesn't prove he has a limited capacity, that proves he had a limited amount of power. Haven't I already explained that I never claimed Kun to be weakened?
Those lost reserves of energy not being somehow increased by the ritual either, the energy fueled the ritual and allowed him to become a spirit, he was going to 'run rampant' across the cosmos but Nomi sensed what he was attempting, the ensuing Wall of Light trapped him in the temples, which he used to survive and maintain his will without being dragged into the void.
Who ever said as much? Lmao. It did put him in closer concert with the dark side though. 😉
I find it humorous at best, that you claim to have debunked anything, when it simply appears that you're ignoring statements and speculating as to why you're correct.
On the other hand watching you continue to bark up the wrong tree is growing tiresome. 😬
You point to Exar Kun shedding his chains and mortal coil, but ignore that it immediately follows with his ability to traverse the cosmos. As in he can move around the galaxy without mortal restraints. When it states he became one with the dark side, it means he died and became one with the Dark Side, not achieved some unlimited power.
So it can't be referring to the power he was able accrued as well? Given the precedent for the body limiting that capacity?

And again, who said anything about unlimited power?

If you have any actual substantial proof going against the already confirmed power levels of Kun's spirit, aid or no, and how it relates to Kun's powers as a living Sith Lord, which I've provided repeatedly, then state them.
I think having the full might of Kyp Durron and the genius of Streen at your disposal is sufficient proof. 👆
On the duel with Ulic, unless you have actual evidence that they were using Force powers, rather than what is stated to be a pure contest of swordsmanship, provide it. More speculation won't get you anywhere, Kun is famous for his need to prove himself against his peers, something he did here.
So lightsaber duels still don't involve Force powers? I thought we'd already gone over that. As if Ulic could match his strength and stamina if Kun were as vastly above him as suggested.

And according to what sources? Kun regularly employed Force abilities offensively over the course of TotJ, as if he wouldn't resort to doing so when failing to would cause his death.

Regarding your hilarious misinterpretation of my alchemic statement, it isn't that alchemy made Exar Kun more powerful, it is that he'd grown extremely powerful by the time he had resumed his alchemical practices on Yavin IV, which is exactly what happens in the story.

Kun starts practicing alchemy, creating the Massassi Abominations and the construction of a large network of temples, finishing Naga Sadow's incomllete works. But Kun decides to take the Corsair to deal with Ulic and Aleema, they join forces, Kun goes to Ossus and kills Odan-Urr, he takes in it's knowledge and becomes more powerful. He then converts the Jedi students by unleashing the spirits in the holocron whilst on Yavin IV, thus starts the assassination attempts on the Jedi Masters, Kun rescues Ulic from Coruscant. Kun then returns to Yavin IV and resumes his alchemical creations.

Comprende esse?

Eh? The statement says he was "extremely powerful" when he began those alchemic practices and no evidence you've raised suggests he resumed them after. I mean seriously when do you plan to support his claim? 😂

Oh and interestingly enough, looking over the source again it states he invented the golden sphere before his engagement with Kun as well.

Seriously, unless you have something beyond your own speculation on cherry-picked information, then this isn't going to go anywhere. You're proving nothing whilst I provide statements supporting exactly what I've stated.
Lmao, the only reason its not going anywhere is because 1. you continue to avoid acknowledging many of my points 2. you simply repeat yourself instead of addressing my rebuttals 3. you continue to bark up the wrong tree concerning this "unlimited power" nonsense, that I never actually suggested. 🙄

Originally posted by Aurbere
We all know what "omniscient" means, right? I feel like someone here doesn't...

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
I understand the meaning of that word, but ignoring the entire statement for the sake of semantics makes sense?

Historians and Scholars, period.

😂

This is just embarrassing.

Why would he need more power than he could gain life when it states that Exar Kun only needs to restore his lost reserves of energy to accomplish his resurrection?

A few scant years later, Kun is brought sharply awake by the arrival of not one or two, but a dozen humans blazing with the power he needed to live again. Eagerly but cautiously, Kun observes each arrival, probing for weaknesses and the power he needs to restore his lost reserves of energy. For a time, he is able to subside by feeding on their residual energy, but soon he will need worshippers if he is to grow more active. With a nucleus of followers to provide him energy-providing anger and fear, Kun will have enough power to escape his exile and take on human form.
-Jedi Academy Sourcebook

Something repeated in another source:

Exar Kun corrupted Luke’s most powerful student, Kyp Durron, and attempted to resurrect himself by draining power from Luke and the other trainees.
-Jedi VS Sith The Essential Guide to the Force

You claim that Exar Kun needs more power than he'd have had in life to return to human form, but the first quote states he can do so by restoring his lost reserves of energy. Nothing states he needs more than that, to restore those reserves he needs to drain Luke and his trainees. Nothing more, nothing less.

You claim you've debunked that Kun needed all of Luke's students, despite the above quotes mentioning a 'nucleus of followers' and noting 'Luke and his trainees'.

He drained Gantoris fully but that could only last him until subverting other students:

Realizing that Gantoris is no longer his, Kun utterly drains him to provide himself a reserve of energy to last until he can subvert more students.
-Jedi Academy Sourcebook

He repeatedly mentions his intention to convert all of Luke's students, in the book itself.

At one point Exar Kun had the reserve of Gantoris, the power of Kyp Durron and had his control over Streen. That still wasn't enough power to achieve his ultimate goal.

And had it not been said that this was written by “some omniscient committee” you may have a point here. So while you are correct that it is written in-universe you are incorrect that it is fallible. So we are still at the same place. Your source is fallible; mine is not.

Darth Nyriss might be a fallible source but TOR Encyclopedia is not. Sorry.

Probably because Revan actually came into contact with the Sith Empire…

And did he do anything notable?

Except this is nowhere stated or implied. Especially since he wasn’t fighting Muur but rather Morne and as we already saw she had no chance against him 1 v 1. But you are right, it is simple. Morne used Muur’s power to turn the Stormtroopers into Rakghouls to drive Vader back…

Why would Darth Vader be affected by some stormtroopers turning into rakghouls?

Originally posted by The Ellimist
😂

This is just embarrassing.


Your grasp of things (or lack thereof) should be embarrassing for you.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
😂

This is just embarrassing.

Um, wasn't it literally just a few days ago that you completely ****ed up the meaning of "omniscient", old chum? 😬

Considering English is actually your first language, unlike Legend, might want to be a bit more mindful here.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Um, wasn't it literally just a few days ago that you completely ****ed up the meaning of "omniscient", old chum? 😬

Considering English is actually your first language, unlike Legend, might want to be a bit more mindful here.

It's not that he messed up the definition of the word - he was reminded several times that he might have gotten it wrong, and assured us he had not - he just can't make the logical connection that "knows everything" negates his "in-universe" argument. It's a failure in reasoning, which is a lot more lolworthy than a semantics hiccup.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Why would he need more power than he could gain life when it states that Exar Kun only needs to restore his lost reserves of energy to accomplish his resurrection?

Something repeated in another source:

You claim that Exar Kun needs more power than he'd have had in life to return to human form, but the first quote states he can do so by restoring his lost reserves of energy. Nothing states he needs more than that, to restore those reserves he needs to drain Luke and his trainees. Nothing more, nothing less.

Except, that's not actually what those sources say. What they say is that Luke's students possessed the power he needed (note an unquantified amount) to "restore his lost reserves." Not that wielding his past power, through any means, would be sufficient to resurrect himself.

That is an inference you have made.

However, when we consider that in order to permanently restore his lost power, he would require a body in which that power could be sustained, that phrase takes on new meaning. Namely acquiring a body should be considered intrinsic to "restoring his lost reserves."

Namely, being capable, by any means, of wielding power or an excess of his power, as a spirit, wouldn't constitute "restoring his lost reserves", because he doesn't have a body, and therefore it can't be sustained. Instead he would and was exhausted by every exertion.

Only by creating a dark side avatar could he properly achieve that, which, as I have said, would logically require a tremendous amount of additional energy to achieve in and of itself.

You claim you've debunked that Kun needed all of Luke's students, despite the above quotes mentioning a 'nucleus of followers' and noting 'Luke and his trainees'.
Uh-huh, and as I said in my OP, none of those statements actually say he "needed" them, only that he attempted to use them. Instead what's actually stated is any one of them would have sufficed.
He drained Gantoris fully but that could only last him until subverting other students
So? A Force user is a conduit, not a receptacle. Draining Gantoris fully wouldn't have given Kun the entirety of his power, it would have given Kun the life energy in Gantoris' body.

Whereas he could have gained much more power if Gantoris had become pliable, and he'd been able to continually siphon power through Gantoris' connection to the Force.

But he didn't, so, as the source states, Kun cut his losses and killed him. Which for the record, proves he didn't need all Luke's students, given he was prepared to kill one of them.

He repeatedly mentions his intention to convert all of Luke's students, in the book itself.
Well it would speed up the process immeasurable, so of course he would attempt that. Doesn't make it necessary.
At one point Exar Kun had the reserve of Gantoris, the power of Kyp Durron and had his control over Streen. That still wasn't enough power to achieve his ultimate goal.
Immediately? Evidently not. But given enough time to siphon their power I see no reason why it wouldn't be. But considering that in order to properly restore his lost force reserves he need power potentially well in excess of what he ever had in life, it really doesn't matter.

You are speculating and forming arguments based off of your own interpretations, you keep making claims based off of them and then provide no supporting evidence. My argument is directly supported by statements.

For Exar Kun to live again he needs 'Luke and the other trainees', as a 'nucleus of followers' to drain 'the energy he needs' to 'restore his lost reserves of energy' and 'take human form'.

It literally can't be more obviously stated than that.

You claim Kun didn't have time to siphon energy from Gantoris, which is wrong:

Kun finds Gantoris, strong-willed and impatient to learn, to be a more promising first candidate. He easily seduces Gantoris in the same manner that Nadd had seduced him—by promising forbidden knowledge and the truly powerful Jedi secrets Gantoris cannot wait to learn. Carefully building up and feeding on the anger of his first apprentice, Kun grows in power.
-Jedi Academy Sourcebook

He is siphoning power from Gantoris, it just isn't enough, he attemptd to convert Luke by appearing as Anakin Skywalker, it doesn't work and his power is drained, so he returns to Gantoris and drains him fully:

Realizing that Gantoris is no longer his, Kun utterly drains him to provide himself a reserve of energy to last until he can subvert more students.
-Jedi Academy Sourcebook

You make the claim that he doesn't need all the students to regain physical form, when not only the above statements but Exar Kun's own statements contradict you:

"I have been toying with you." Kun wavered his silhouette hand. "Nothing will affect my plans. Some of your students are already mine. The others will soon follow."
-Jedi Academy Volume 3 Champions of the Force

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Yeah, no one here is denying that Kun played a huge role in conquering Luke. But that excerpt in no way, shape, or form means anything other than Kyp being pretty delicate in his first major psychic exploration and Kun kicking it into high gear.

If anything, you're the one who's denying Kyp's participation. Beni has that covered.

He reached out with his mind, following the paths of the Force that led to every object in the universe, drawing power from the cosmic focal point of the Massassi temple. He searched, sending his thoughts like a probe deep into the storm systems of the gas giant. Behind him, Kyp felt the black-ice power of Exar Kun arise, tapping into him and reinforcing his abilities. His own feeble exploratory touch suddenly plunged forward like a blaster bolt.Kyp felt larger, a part of the jungle moon, then a part of the entire planetary system, until he burrowed into the heart of the gas giant itself.The Sun Crusher approached like a long, sharp thorn of crystalline alloy, cruising upright on its long axis. The toroidal resonance-torpedo launcher hung at the bottom of the long hook. It looked beautiful. The Sun Crusher descended through the jungle moon’s atmosphere, straight down—like a spike to impale the Great Temple. Kyp controlled it, slowed its descent, until the superweapon hovered to a stop, suspended in front of him._
As the sky brightened with planetrise, the alloy hull of the Sun Crusher seemed as pristine as a firefacet gem, scoured of all oxidation and debris by the intense temperatures and pressures at the core of Yavin. The Sun Crusher looked clean, and deadly, and ready for him.
“Thank you, Exar Kun,” Kyp whispered.
- Jedi Academy Volume 2 Dark Apprentice

So how exactly is reinforcing Kyp's abilities with his power, a display of Kun's mastery over Kyp's own? Here we have two statements directly stating Kun was amplifying Kyp the entire time:

Over a number of weeks, Kun slowly bends Kyp to his will, and begins to augment his power.
- The Jedi Academy Sourcebook
Ultimately, he has Kyp return to Yavin Four and helps him reclaim the Sun Crusher. He also bolsters Kyp's talents to allow him to defeat Luke and place him in a coma.
- The Jedi Academy Sourcebook

It was Kun's powers amping Kyp that allowed Durron to accomplish all of this, something not only Corran Horn states:

The only vaguely positive explanation for Exar Kun's dormancy that I could come up with was that his effort to draw the Suncrusher from Yavin and to down Luke had tired him out. I had no way to determine how powerful Exar Kun could be, but it struck me as possible that he'd expended a lot of energy to defeat a Jedi Master.
- Corran Horn, Jedi vs Sith The Essential Guide to the Force.

But Streen repeats:

Even Master Skywalker was vulnerable to that Sith fiend!
-Streen, Jedi vs Sith The Essential Guide to the Force

Originally posted by AncientPower
Your quote

"Kyp felt the black-ice power of Exar Kun arise, tapping into him and reinforcing his abilities."

No one said Kun didn't play a part in this, but you're completely removing Durron from the equation, which is wrong.