Mage Battles

Originally posted by Beniboybling
True, but if Revan can't even effectively push a mere vassal, it seems unreasonable he'd be able to affect Vitiate himself at all, certainly not floor him, even under extenuating circumstances.

Not unreasonable if Vitiate isn't defending himself. And Revan did use his Gary Stu Force in Balance attack to do it, not TK.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Palpatine's Force storms are masses of destructive dark side energy, generated through hate, and a mere extrapolation of the Force maelstrom, itself a form of Force lightning.

So I'd say they are comparable, the basic principles of channeling your anger and hate into energy are the same.

Altogether is a level of destructive power that Valkorion has not anywhere vastly surpassed.

It's not lightning though, so it's not lightning. 😐

Force Maelstrom is a combination attack that merely has lightning as an element of it, the attack itself isn't a form of lightning. An extrapolation of a technique that uses lightning as an element of it, is not itself innately lightning. Duh.

His destruction of Ziost > Sidious' wormhole in scale. While Sidious could hypothetically cause that level of damage given enough time to vacuum his storm over a planet bit by bit, that's not really comparable. And Valkorion grew from that destruction.

Force Storm is irrelevant anyway, as it's not a combat technique.

Originally posted by SunRazer
Hmm, it is worth noting that while he hadn't perfected his control over them by this time, Sidious could still conjure Force Storms. If he's not capable of winning without them, it stands to reason that he'd fall back on them as a last resort.

Sidious has never shown the ability to use his Force Storm in combat, without getting killed by it himself.

So? Force lightning is still an aspect of it, and the basic principles are the same, the fact that it also incorporates TK just proves Palpatine is better in that regard as well.

Scale? Maybe. We don't know how large a storm Palpatine could create. But destructive power? Hardly.

Actually, Sheev's Force storms at their upper end can threaten all of space. He's capable of exponentially greater destruction than from what can be attributed to Valkorion.

We're discussing RotJ Palpatine tho. But correct nonetheless. ✅

Originally posted by Beniboybling
We're discussing RotJ Palpatine tho. But correct nonetheless. ✅

The Emperor was working on mastering the Force storm as early as ca. ROTS, per Book of Sith. And in Star Wars Gamer #5 he employs it by using a wormhole to fold space and transmigrate his essence through the void when he died in ROTJ. 👆

Indeed, but it stands to reason its potency scaled with his own growth in power.

Though I suppose an order of magnitude down from threatening "all of space" still > a planetary radius. mmm

Threatening all of space >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> anything Valkorion has ever done.

I'll respond to the rest tomorrow, Neph, but this caught my attention:

Sidious has never shown the ability to use his Force Storm in combat, without getting killed by it himself.

Then it'll just be a stalemate, won't it?

Besides, even by this time, Sidious can summon Wormholes through just a wilful inclination.

Sidious only killed himself thanks to his opponents' Force Harmony (ie. PIS), but that doesn't really matter here.

Originally posted by SunRazer
I'll respond to the rest tomorrow, Neph, but this caught my attention:

Then it'll just be a stalemate, won't it?

Besides, even by this time, Sidious can summon Wormholes through just a wilful inclination.

Sidious only killed himself thanks to his opponents' Force Harmony (ie. PIS), but that doesn't really matter here.

If Sidious attempts to conjure a Force Storm I highly doubt Valkorion would just let him. He'd slap the shit out of him while he's focused on that and Sidious would annihilate himself again. Valkorion teleports somewhere else or something. GG.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
So? Force lightning is still an aspect of it, and the basic principles are the same, the fact that it also incorporates TK just proves Palpatine is better in that regard as well.

Scale? Maybe. We don't know how large a storm Palpatine could create. But destructive power? Hardly.

No it isn't. The Wormhole doesn't use lightning, so it isn't lightning. This isn't a hard concept to grasp. Maelstrom uses lightning as a component of a combination attack. That doesn't translate into Force Storm at all. It's completely irrelevant. Try using Sidious' actual lightning feats in the future.

It's a drain, which doesn't directly destroy things, so obviously we can't directly compare destruction. However in terms of the potency of the attack, it's easily above Sidious' attack.

Originally posted by The_Tempest

Actually, Sheev's Force storms at their upper end can threaten all of space. He's capable of exponentially greater destruction than from what can be attributed to Valkorion.

I'm acknowledging this post only to state that I am not acknowledging the content in the slightest. 🙂

1. This fight is fugging LIT. While we don't really know much about Ragnos, I'd wager he could fight on par with or beyond the likes of Muur, given his status as the ultimate paragon of the ancient sith. That said, I think Talzin on Dathomir would probably defeat Kun in an insanely close fight, or stalemate. Not sure.

2. force only? Ehh, team 1 definitely.

3. I wanna say that Nomi Sunrider brings team 1 to victory, but not sure.

4. In all honesty, Traya's sort of a weak link. Especially if you take the Chapter 12 vision fight with Vaylin seriously where she shows off some new powers.

5. Nadd and Sadow.

Originally posted by Nephthys
If Sidious attempts to conjure a Force Storm I highly doubt Valkorion would just let him. He'd slap the shit out of him while he's focused on that and Sidious would annihilate himself again. Valkorion teleports somewhere else or something. GG.

"Focus"? He can summon them with a mere inclination. All he needs to do is summon a small one in Valky's area and that's a win.

Originally posted by SunRazer
"Focus"? He can summon them with a mere inclination. All he needs to do is summon a small one in Valky's area and that's a win.

He didn't do that in DE though. He needed to focus on doing it, giving the Skywalkers the time to attack him. Valkorion can easily recreate that. He's also never done what you say. He can't just make "a small one" and kill anyone he wants. Valkorion could resist a small wormhole regardless.

He made a small Wormhole in RotJ when he died... that was small enough to fit that shaft he fell into.

Valkorion can "resist" a Wormhole? How so?

Lolwut? Quote? Pretty sure that was him dying bro.

Um, Force defenses.

1. The Dark Side Burst was him dying, but him transmigrating his essence lightyears was with Wormhole.

"The moment the Emperor "died" at the Battle of Endor, Droga fell into an inexplicable insanity, butchering his crew and causing the Emperor's Shadow to plunge into Kaal's oceans. Even as he perished, Palpatine used the dark side knowledge the Sith Lords had granted him years earlier to rend space itself and transmigrate his essence across lightyears to Droga's body."
Source: Gamer #5

2. Tell me the last time "Force defenses" allowed you to defend against a Wormhole.

Originally posted by SunRazer
1. It's not the wording I'm concerned about, it's the fact that the building can house Star Destroyers, which gives you an estimation of its size. Destroying it with a thought is unquestionably impressive.

I recall a character thinking that he would rip the planet itself apart with the power he had been gathering.

Originally posted by SunRazer
As for Lightning, I thought it was a few ships - that's not a "small fleet". I'd say casually ashifying a Sith wyrm decades before RotJ constitutes a rivalling feat.

"Incredible... life signs aboard all ships in the Spar's proximity have been neutralized." (Scorpio)

Valkorion's actions stopping shipping activity in the entire sector.

Originally posted by SunRazer
Fair enough on the Imperial Guards. Regarding the Dread Masters, I'd say dominating the population of Byss in what appeared to be an easy feat puts him well above them in telepathy, and in other areas, he's vastly superior. So yeah, they are insignificant to him.

Dread Masters affected enemies (on a large-scale) with their telepathic powers.

Originally posted by Nephthys
I'm acknowledging this post only to state that I am not acknowledging the content in the slightest. 🙂

Pretty much everyone here has known for years that you're dishonest, my child. So this isn't a surprise. Though I am intrigued that you've decided to openly embrace your reputation.

Just remember this when you start crying about me lecturing you. excellent

Originally posted by SunRazer
1. The Dark Side Burst was him dying, but him transmigrating his essence lightyears was with Wormhole.

"The moment the Emperor "died" at the Battle of Endor, Droga fell into an inexplicable insanity, butchering his crew and causing the Emperor's Shadow to plunge into Kaal's oceans. Even as he perished, Palpatine used the dark side knowledge the Sith Lords had granted him years earlier to rend space itself and transmigrate his essence across lightyears to Droga's body."
Source: Gamer #5

2. Tell me the last time "Force defenses" allowed you to defend against a Wormhole.

That doesn't seem like wormhole, just fold space/teleporting. Also iirc that source is contradicted in other places that it took Sidious longer to get to Droga.

If TK can effect a black hole, surely a barrier can resist the destructive forces of a wormhole.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Pretty much everyone here has known for years that you're dishonest, my child. So this isn't a surprise. Though I am intrigued that you've decided to openly embrace your reputation.

Just remember this when you start crying about me lecturing you. excellent

Well it shouldn't be a surprise since I've stated numerous times that I don't acknowledge that thing.

Originally posted by The_Tempest

Actually, Sheev's Force storms at their upper end can threaten all of space. He's capable of exponentially greater destruction than from what can be attributed to Valkorion.

Force Storm could not threaten all of space, period. It is a wormhole-like manifestation, nothing else. And its inconsequential to the events occurring in the universe at large.

In the universe, lot of stuff is happening that we cannot even properly comprehend (they are of such scope and scale). And you think that a single Force power would threaten all of it? The space is incredibly vast. We don't even have an idea of its boundaries.

B/W Valkorion is stated to have "immeasurable power." 🙄