@Neph -
1. Except Palpatine doesn't know Fold Space, or hasn't shown it. It makes more sense that he folded space through a refined usage of Wormhole.
And no, it's not contradicted. Newer sources state that it took time for him to get to Byss, not Kaal (where Droga was situated).
2. Telekinesis isn't the same as or similar to Barrier in the slightest.
And even provided that Valk can defend himself with Barrier, he can't defend the space around him, which means Palpatine will still win via BFR.
Originally posted by Trocity
@LegendSidious was stated to have learned all dark side techniques and create new ones at his leisure - that means he knows everything Valkorion does and then some. 🙄
And it is not possible for Palpatine to have learned every Dark Side technique ever pioneered since many secrets would not end-up recorded and/or records of many would end up destroyed at the hands of enemies of the Sith with passage of time.
Moreover, I don't recall Valkorion (the guy who has explored the most sinister and uncharted depths of the Dark Side) creating holocrons.
B/W here is a realistic assessment of the destructive potential of the second Force Storm that Palpatine conjured:
In a last-minute reversal, a dark side Force storm intended to obliterate the New Republic headquarters consumed the Emperor instead - leaving the Dark Empire leaderless.
Taken from Star Wars: The Essential Atlas
Btw do you have a video or more concrete evidence of Valkorion's lightning actually downing all of those ships?
Because the quote you provided only mentions all life signs aboard the ships being dead, meaning he killed the crews, and so of course the ships would then likely crash, not necessarily his lightning itself bringing the ships down..
Wormholes haven't beaten a single person except Sidious himself.
Originally posted by SunRazer
@Neph -1. Except Palpatine doesn't know Fold Space, or hasn't shown it. It makes more sense that he folded space through a refined usage of Wormhole.
And no, it's not contradicted. Newer sources state that it took time for him to get to Byss, not Kaal (where Droga was situated).
2. Telekinesis isn't the same as or similar to Barrier in the slightest.
And even provided that Valk can defend himself with Barrier, he can't defend the space around him, which means Palpatine will still win via BFR.
1. If you say so. The fact still remains that he never used it in combat. His supposed use of it there could have been a desperation move and it could have been of irrelevant potency, just enough to transport his spirit. In terms of his actual showings, when he tried to use it against Luke he got curbed because of it.
2. Um, it's an invisible projection of force, its pretty similar. I use TK and defenses pretty interchangeably, honestly.
Originally posted by Trocity
Btw do you have a video or more concrete evidence of Valkorion's lightning actually downing all of those ships?Because the quote you provided only mentions all life signs aboard the ships being dead, meaning he killed the crews, and so of course the ships would then likely crash, not necessarily his lightning itself bringing the ships down..
Originally posted by Nephthys
Wormholes haven't beaten a single person except Sidious himself.
No, they haven't beaten a single person, just millions of them in fleets or planet surfaces.
1. If you say so.
Not only is it me that's saying so, but Sidious himself (more than once) describes the ability to "fold space" and "shatter the fabric of space" with Wormholes, and this is well before RotJ.
The fact still remains that he never used it in combat. His supposed use of it there could have been a desperation move and it could have been of irrelevant potency, just enough to transport his spirit. In terms of his actual showings, when he tried to use it against Luke he got curbed because of it.
He has, and if it requires only a "wilful inclination" to summon a Force Storm, suggesting that he can't call upon one if he needs to is normally something I'd post a laughing GIF for, but I can't be bothered to do that now.
"Just enough to transport his spirit"? By RotJ, it's still enough to tear off the surfaces of worlds or annihilate fleets. And just being able to affect one person/the space around them is enough for this match.
He never got curbed because of it. He got curbed when the Force Harmony turned it against him. You keep citing this without any reference to context. He got curbed the Force Harmony, not the effort of summoning/controlling the Wormhole. That'd be the equivalent of me saying that the Outlander managed to impale Valkorion on their saber, so Sidious could easily blitz ol' Valky.
2. Um, it's an invisible projection of force, its pretty similar. I use TK and defenses pretty interchangeably, honestly.
Sorry, I meant to say Wormhole and TK aren't the same.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Wormholes do not affect spirits and disembodied manifestations. Therefore, Palpatine cannot stop Valkorion even with his greatest powers.
Did you not see me post the quote:
"The moment the Emperor "died" at the Battle of Endor, Droga fell into an inexplicable insanity, butchering his crew and causing the Emperor's Shadow to plunge into Kaal's oceans. Even as he perished, Palpatine used the dark side knowledge the Sith Lords had granted him years earlier to rend space itself and transmigrate his essence across lightyears to Droga's body."
Source: Gamer #5
So yes, if Valkorion dies, Palpatine can transmigrate his essence somewhere else to win via BFR. Not to mention that even before RotS, Palpatine learned to influence spirits and essences. And if we want to play this game, Valkorion can't defeat Palpatine's essence either, so it's a stalemate at best.
Originally posted by SunRazer
No, they haven't beaten a single person, just millions of them in fleets or planet surfaces.
Which is irrelevant in terms of using it safely in personal, small-scale combat without dying himself. Which he cannot do.
Originally posted by SunRazer
Not only is it me that's saying so, but Sidious himself (more than once) describes the ability to "fold space" and "shatter the fabric of space" with Wormholes, and this is well before RotJ.
What source is that btw? Gamer? Is that a magazine? Sounds non-canon.
Originally posted by SunRazer
He has, and if it requires only a "wilful inclination" to summon a Force Storm, suggesting that he can't call upon one if he needs to is normally something I'd post a laughing GIF for, but I can't be bothered to do that now."Just enough to transport his spirit"? By RotJ, it's still enough to tear off the surfaces of worlds or annihilate fleets.
He never got curbed because of it. He got curbed when the Force Harmony turned it against him. You keep citing this without any reference to context. He got curbed the Force Harmony, not the effort of summoning/controlling the Wormhole. That'd be the equivalent of me saying that the Outlander managed to impale Valkorion on their saber, so Sidious could easily blitz ol' Valky.
No, he hasn't.
No you dumbass, I mean that the small one he used to transport his spirit could be incredibly weak. He obviously didn't damage the Death Star or conjure one potent enough to destroy the nearby Luke and Vader, so you cannot prove such a small wormhole would actually be effective.
Irrelevant posturing. He tried to use an attack and the Skywalkers used the time he took to conjure his Force Storm to whoop him. Valkorion could do the same.
Originally posted by SunRazer
Sorry, I meant to say Wormhole and TK aren't the same.
Barriers can defend against more than just TK. If it's a physical attack it can block it.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Which is irrelevant in terms of using it safely in personal, small-scale combat without dying himself. Which he cannot do.
He can, because he's made personal-sized Wormholes before.
What source is that btw? Gamer? Is that a magazine? Sounds non-canon.
Sounds like you're getting desperate here and trying to discredit a perfectly canonical source.
No, he hasn't.
Again, suggesting he can't when all it take is a mere "wilful inclination" is ridiculous, and you know it's ridiculous.
No you dumbass, I mean that the small one he used to transport his spirit could be incredibly weak. He obviously didn't damage the Death Star or conjure one potent enough to destroy the nearby Luke and Vader, so you cannot prove such a small wormhole would actually be effective.
No, you dumbass, he made it small enough to fit within the shaft and not affect his surroundings. That, and he did this as a weakened, disembodied spirit. Not indicative of what he could do in the flesh.
Also, he claims that his Force Storms are "vastly destructive", can "shatter the fabric of space", "swallow armies", "fold space", etc. I assume this stuff would be harder for him to control, but he doesn't need to swallow armies here.
Irrelevant posturing. He tried to use an attack and the Skywalkers used the time he took to conjure his Force Storm to whoop him. Valkorion could do the same.
Palpatine isn't trying to devour an entire fleet or moon here. He only needs to summon a small one on Valkorion. That won't take much time - considering the one in RotJ was instantaneous.
Barriers can defend against more than just TK. If it's a physical attack it can block it.
Wormholes affect the physical, but they're not physical themselves. They're holes in space, in other words, holes in the physical. Barriers being able to defend against holes in the space-time continuum (ie. holes in reality itself) is incredibly suspect and extremely unlikely.
Originally posted by SunRazer
Did you not see me post the quote:"The moment the Emperor "died" at the Battle of Endor, Droga fell into an inexplicable insanity, butchering his crew and causing the Emperor's Shadow to plunge into Kaal's oceans. Even as he perished, Palpatine used the dark side knowledge the Sith Lords had granted him years earlier to rend space itself and transmigrate his essence across lightyears to Droga's body."
Source: Gamer #5
B/W I know that Palpatine journeyed to Byss after his corporeal demise during the Battle of Endor and it took him a year to reach Byss and activate his first clone.
Originally posted by SunRazer
So yes, if Valkorion dies, Palpatine can transmigrate his essence somewhere else to win via BFR. Not to mention that even before RotS, Palpatine learned to influence spirits and essences. And if we want to play this game, Valkorion can't defeat Palpatine's essence either, so it's a stalemate at best.
As for Palpatine doing essence transfer; unless he have a virtually endless supply of clones, he is not getting anywhere. And Valkorion can destroy his clones.
Moreover, Valkorion is extremely powerful in disembodied form; much more-so then Palpatine. So I suggest that you do not play this game.
To refresh your memory: http://comicvine.gamespot.com/profile/s_w_legend/blog/cheating-corporeal-death-and-abilities-outside-a-c/126610/
Therefore, it is a safe bet that Valkorion threatens Palpatine's essence even more-so.
So if there a war between Palpatine and Valkorion, this is a war that Palpatine cannot win.
@Legend - Just saw the edit. It's going to be 2AM in 2 minutes and I desperately need to hit the sack now, but that's relevant because it shows Palpatine can affect disembodied essences. You seem like you're playing dumb on purpose to avoid conceding to the truth.
And that was traveling to Kaal, not Byss.
Originally posted by SunRazer
1. What? Did you even read my quote? Palpatine can affect disembodied essences with Wormhole, as he has done so before. Can, can, can, can.
Force Storm does not affects spirits and disembodied manifestations, period. Otherwise, Palpatine would have not have survived his own Force Storm.
Originally posted by SunRazer
2. Prove it, and even if he was, he still can't kill off Palpatine permanently, so at worst it's a stalemate regardless of who's more powerful.
Valkorion have history of siphoning energy of Force ghosts held captive inside the Dark Temple.
I'd say that Valkorion will send Palpatine's essence back to void.